Is Hindi-Urdu Closer to Persian or Turkic?

[Stag112]

Indo European languages

What are you doing on this forum? You made a post purely based on scholarship? What about religion race color character of gangawalas etc etc?

 

[Prechko]

I think both Scythians and Sarmatians had been later assimilated by the Slavs.

The Scythians have become the Russian Cossacks, while the Sarmatians have become the Polish Hussars.

No , no Cossack come from Turkic-Cuman word "Kazak" which means "free man" or more better "free people" in this case. They were peasants serving in Polish and Russian lands that escaped to steppe and accepted steppe way of life.

Hussars* or Gussars* are originally light cavalry from Balkans designed to fight Ottomans , later in Poland they became winged Hussars heavy cavalry.

Yes , Iranic-Slavic confederation was known as Antes or Anti , they settled in the Balkans.

* Hussar or Gussar is Slavic word for corsair

 

[bongbang]

What about religion race color character of gangawalas etc etc?

We are the same people from source. But its the different time spans which divided us.

 

[Joe Shearer]

I think both Scythians and Sarmatians had been later assimilated by the Slavs.

The Scythians have become the Russian Cossacks, while the Sarmatians have become the Polish Hussars.

I am not sure that there were exact identities, or that these were the identities.

We are the same people from source. But its the different time spans which divided us.

The spread of language visual was interesting but some of it was controversial, to say the least.

 

[Levina]

I beg your pardon. I am not at all in the business of linguistic jingoism. And there was nothing in all that I explained, none of which you have even tried to refute except with a mild bleat of protest, that changes the name of Urdu to Hindi.



An understandable conclusion, from your point of view, because I seriously think that your posts are among the most stupid that I have had the misfortune to deal with. So that is why my posts are littered with personal insults when it comes to your posts, because I hate stupid. Keep pitying, or doing whatever else you want to do; just don't post silly things.



You know this is the origin of these languages? Which languages? As far as you are concerned, they are all an alphabet soup. There is no evidence in any single one of your posts that you know which language belongs to which group, or that there are wide gaps between Arabic and Persian and Turkic, or that Persian and Hindi belong to the same language family. Just saying, after you have been found in all your ignorance, that you knew all along hardly cuts it.



Umm, the village idiot remains the same. Hint: have you a mirror nearby?
You said and did nothing that upgrades your status; you remain the village idiot. And it won't change till your level of knowledge changes.



Just proves my point.

English has tons of loan words; that doesn't make the language French, or German, or even Hindi, considering the original sources of those words.

Of course most of the words in the original post were not Hindi; they were grafts onto the original grammatical structure - it has been noted that you don't particularly relish grammar, or mentions of grammar - but that makes it a variation of the grafted original. Not a separate language. No more than using words of French or German origin makes English either equal to French or to German, or makes one person's English more or less English than another person's.

I frankly doubt that you have the intellect to even understand what is going on. It is difficult, I admit, to rise above schoolgirl chatter and sniping to coping with a problem with one's thinking. It will take some a long time, perhaps their whole lives, on the present evidence.



So much for your knowledge.

You obviously don't know that there are literally dozens of languages which do not follow the same forms of masculine and feminine as Hindi does - or as Urdu does in an identical manner. When someone from a different language background - a Tamilian, for instance, or a Bengali - speaks either Hindi or Urdu, he or she makes the kind of mistake that, to you, forms the essence of linguistics.



You should edit your posts more carefully. A few comments earlier, you admitted your being the village idiot in question. You should have deleted that.

Still not too late. Think how smart it will make you look.



It is true, your posts do make me cry. If you were one of my students, I would commit suicide.




No evidence that you know the difference. Think of your reference to Abraham Lincoln. If you had any sense, you wouldn't drag in Malayalam into a discussion on the difference between Urdu and Hindi. Since you don't, it got dragged in.



Yes, very meaningful contributions. By your standards.

Could not stop laughing at the sarcasm. Lolz

To be honest, looking at each and every post preceding this is quite meaningless. Let me summarise it for your sake; the others can honestly go hang.

First, Persian and Indo-Aryan (not Sanskrit) are from the same identical language, Indo-Iranian. That is why, as @vsdoc pointed out, there are remarkable similarities, down to the point where to understand the Zend Avesta properly, it helped to know the Rg Vedic language (not Sanskrit), and to understand the nuances of the Rg Veda, it helps to know Avestan.

Second, Sanskrit is on a branch relative to the other modern Indian languages. That is, Sanskrit is Vedic Indo-Aryan codified by a genius named Panini in around 600 BC, somewhere in the vicinity of Takshashila. From that point on, Sanskrit was quite fixed, and was immutable. Not that changes in style could not be detected; they could, and that is how people determine the age of different Sanskrit works. However, it was not the root stock of modern Indian languages.

Modern Indian languages are derived from generally five sources (except one freak case).

1. Most western Indian languages in north India are derived from Suraseni Prakrit. That is the root stock of all the languages that our village idiot mentioned, including Punjabi, Potohari, Pahari and Kashmiri; it was not the root stock of many others. Suraseni Prakrit in turn was derived from Indo-Aryan, the original language of the Vedas, and existed parallel to Sanskrit.
2. Most eastern Indian languages in north India, up to Assamese, are derived from Magadhi Prakrit, another variation of Prakrit. Many of them share a common script, misleadingly known as Bengali script.
3. Languages to the east of Assamese are generally of Tibeto-Burmese origin, part of the Sinic language family.
4. Throughout northern and southern India, and in Bangladesh as well, there are remainders of probably the oldest language common to all of India, members of the Austro-Asiatic languages family, specifically of the Munda languages.
5. The whole of south India, south of the Godavari, is dominated by Dravidian languages, seven of them, with four prominent ones, Tamizh, Malayalam (southern Dravidian), and Telugu and Kannada (northern Dravidian).
6. Burashaski is the freak case.

Coming to Urdu, Urdu is the language, the patois, that evolved in military camps, hence the name, from the word for camp. It was essentially the language of the land embellished with loan words, with words for specific techniques, such as riding....


Doubtful.

But hope springs eternal in the human breast.

There's something that I wanted to show you show you (lil nervous!! I hope I don't get the caned for posting this this thread.)

https://defence.pk/threads/is-sanskrit-really-an-“indo-european”-language.377587/

 

[Butchcassidy]

I think both Scythians and Sarmatians had been later assimilated by the Slavs.

The Scythians have become the Russian Cossacks, while the Sarmatians have become the Polish Hussars.

Cossacks were serfs who escaped and set up communes in the steppes. They were of russian ethnicity.
Hussars were a heavy cavalry unit, nothing to do with ethnicity. There were tatar light cavalry units in polish lithuanian confederation, they were called lipka

 

[HimalyanKingdom]

Its urdu not hindi indians.
Sharam nahi aati iney urdu ka naam b naam b change kar diya.

urdu itself is a combination of Hindi, persian and arbi. Ghanchakker bhaijaan

 

[ChineseTiger1986]

I am not sure that there were exact identities, or that these were the identities.

Well, the Cossacks always self-proclaim themselves to be the true descendants of the Scythians, maybe they are trying to glorify their ethnicity.

Cossacks were serfs who escaped and set up communes in the steppes. They were of russian ethnicity.
Hussars were a heavy cavalry unit, nothing to do with ethnicity. There were tatar light cavalry units in polish lithuanian confederation, they were called lipka

Yeah, but many people usually want to tie themselves with the Scythians and Sarmatians for some odd reasons.

No , no Cossack come from Turkic-Cuman word "Kazak" which means "free man" or more better "free people" in this case. They were peasants serving in Polish and Russian lands that escaped to steppe and accepted steppe way of life.

Hussars* or Gussars* are originally light cavalry from Balkans designed to fight Ottomans , later in Poland they became winged Hussars heavy cavalry.

Yes , Iranic-Slavic confederation was known as Antes or Anti , they settled in the Balkans.

* Hussar or Gussar is Slavic word for corsair

I think the pro-Slavic people were also initially born from the steppe zone in the Southern Russia and Ukraine, but they later retreated back to the forest zone after the invasion of the Huns.

 

[Prechko]

I think the pro-Slavic people were also initially born from the steppe zone in the Southern Russia and Ukraine, but they later retreated back to the forest zone after the invasion of the Huns.

Southern steppes have been dominated by Iranic nomads , Slavs are agrarian people. However , Herodot points in works on farmer class of Scythian people which roughly correspondents with Chernoles culture and are not Iranic , archaeological finds points to substantial trade between Iranic nomads and Chernoles residents. Chernoles are considered as proto-Slavic people , while neighbour Milograd culture as mixed Balto-Slavic.

 

[ChineseTiger1986]

Southern steppes have been dominated by Iranic nomads , Slavs are agrarian people. However , Herodot points in works on farmer class of Scythian people which roughly correspondents with Chernoles culture and are not Iranic , archaeological finds points to substantial trade between Iranic nomads and Chernoles residents. Chernoles are considered as proto-Slavic people , while neighbour Milograd culture as mixed Balto-Slavic.

Well, the original homeland of the PIE is the southern steppe, if both Slavic and Iranic are considered as its closest descendants, then its ultimate origin is also likely the steppe zone.

But the Slavic people had later moved to the forest zone or the forest-steppe zone to adapt a different lifestyle from their Iranic brothers.

 

[Joe Shearer]

Could not stop laughing at the sarcasm. Lolz

There's something that I wanted to show you show you (lil nervous!! I hope I don't get the caned for posting this this thread.)

https://defence.pk/threads/is-sanskrit-really-an-“indo-european”-language.377587/

It's a point of view. You should not flinch at presenting it, although the results might not always be desirable.

I am too old and too tired to take up cudgels against Yet Another Hindutvavadi Revisionist, once again an engineer dependent on his bit-sliced views of history. Fine, he wrote this. Good for him.

There is a very interesting discussion going on between @ChineseTiger1986 , @Prechko and @Butchcassidy .

I wish it could be separated out and given its own thread. It is nice to see an interplay of intellects minus the abuse and the personal attacks; this kind of thing has become rare. My views are more or less identical with @Prechko but with far lesser information than he has - consolidated information, that is; the individual components are familiar, but not the whole perspective.

 

[Srinivas]

Nouns/adjectives or lets say words are not the basis to identify or classify the languages.

It is the structure of the language that is the basis.

Today we see many english words in many languages throughout the world, that do not mean english is closer to all these languages.

we find commonality because of the trade routes and exchanges between the regions.

I

Turkish Hindi (turkish / hindi spelling) English
2
acaip acab / ajab weird
3
adalet adaalat justice
4
adam aadam man
5
aheste aheste ahısta ahısta slowly
6
akis aks echo
7
akıl akl / akal mind
8
ananas ananas pineapple
9
arzu aarzoo wish/desire
10
aşık aşik / aashik fallen-in-love
11
asıl asli / asal real, fact
12
avare avara wandering idly
13
avaz aavaz cry, shout
14
avrat (rare use) aurat wife
15
ayna aaina mirror
16
azad aazad free
17
badem badem almond
18
barut barood gunpowder
19
beden badan body
20
bülbül bulbul nightingale
21
çakı çaku / chaku hindi: knife turkish:pocketknife
22
canım canam / janaam darling
23
çatı çat / chatt roof
24
çay çay / chai tea
25
cenk ceng/ jang war
26
cevap cevab/ javab answer
27
dert dard pain, trouble
28
divane divane crazy
29
dost dost friend
30
dua dua prayer
31
dükkan dukan shop
32
dünya duniya world
33
dürbün durbin binoculars
34
düşman duşman / dushman enemy
35
duvar diwar wall
36
ecnebi acnabi / ajanabi foreigner
37
edep adab good manners
38
eer agar if
39
elbette albatta of course
40
elveda alvida bye
41
fakir fakir poor
42
fayda fayda benefit, advantage
43
fırsat fursat opportunity
44
gam gum sorrow, grief
45
günah gunah sin
46
gurur gurur pride
47
hafta hafta week
48
hak haq one's right
49
hakikat haqeeqat reality
50
hamle hamla attack
51
hava hava air
52
hazır hazier ready
53
helva halwa
54
her har every, each
55
hesap hesap calculation
56
hisse hissa share (portion)
57
hükümet huqumat government
58
incir ancir / anjeer fig
59
insan insan human
60
intikam inteqam revenge
61
işaret ishaara sign
62
kabiliyet kaabiliyat ability
63
kabul kabul accept
64
kafi kaafi sufficient, enough
65
kalem kalam pencil, pen
66
kalender kalandar vagabond
67
kan khoon blood
68
kanun kanoon law
69
karpuz harbuz / kharboze watermelon
70
katil kaatil murderer
71
kenar kinara edge
72
ki ki the one that is (in) ... (suffix)
73
kitap kitab book
74
kısmet kismat fortune, chance, destiny
75
kıyma khima minced meat
76
kıymet keemat value
77
köfte kofta meat balls
78
kurban qurbaan sacrifice
79
malum malum known
80
manzara manzara view
81
masum masum innocent
82
mesele masaal problem
83
meydan maidan square
84
misafir musafir guest
85
muhabbet mohabbat love
86
mum mum candle
87
musibet musibat calamity, disaster
88
nar anar pomegrenate
89
nasip naseeb destiny, chance
90
nazik nazuk polite, delicate
91
nefret nafrat hate
92
numune namoona sample, specimen
93
ordu urdu army
94
pazu bazu biceps
95
pehlivan pehelvan wrestler
96
peynir paynir (white) cheese
97
pilav pulaw cooked rice
98
razı razi agreeing to do, consent ..
99
renk rang color
100
ruh roh / rooh soul
101
rüşvet rishwat bribe
102
sabır sabr patience
103
sabun sabun soap
104
sade sade plain, simple
105
saf saaf pure, clean
106
sahil sahil coast
107
salak salak fool, stupid
108
şarap şarab / sharab alcoholic drink
109
satranç shatranj chess
110
sebze sabzi vegetable
111
sefer safar journey
112
şehir şehir/ sheher city
113
şeker şakar / shakkar sugar
114
şeytan şaytan / shaytaan devil
115
şikayet şikayet / shikayet complaint
116
şiş kebap şiş kebap
117
şişe şişa / shisha bottle
118
sıhhat sehat health
119
sırf sırf only
120
tabanca tamancha pistol
121
tamam tamam OK, All
122
taraf taraf side
123
tava tava pan
124
taze taze / taaza fresh
125
temenni tamanna wish
126
teselli tasalli consolation
127
top top cannon
128
ümit, umut umiid/ ummeed hope
129
üstat ustad virtuoso
130
vaat vaada promise
131
vatan vatan homeland, country
132
ve va and
133
vefa wafa fidelity, loyalty
134
yani yani that is to say, i.e.
135
yar yar loved one
136
zalim zalim cruel
137
zehir zeher poison
138
zemin zemiin/ zameen floor
139
zincir zancir / zanjeer chain
140
ziyade zyaada much

DUTCHISTAN: Turkish Hindi Common Words

 

[Joe Shearer]

Nouns/adjectives or lets say words are not the basis to identify or classify the languages.

It is the structure of the language that is the basis.

Today we see many english words in many languages throughout the world, that do not mean english is closer to all these languages.

we find commonality because of the trade routes and exchanges between the regions.

I am bewildered.

Did we just agree?

 

[Srinivas]

I am bewildered.

Did we just agree?

Yes

 

[Levina]

It's a point of view. You should not flinch at presenting it, although the results might not always be desirable.

Glad you read it.

I am too old and too tired to take up cudgels against Yet Another Hindutvavadi Revisionist, once again an engineer dependent on his bit-sliced views of history. Fine, he wrote this. Good for him.

Stop making excuses. Lol

There is a very interesting discussion going on between @ChineseTiger1986 , @Prechko and @Butchcassidy .

I wish it could be separated out and given its own thread. It is nice to see an interplay of intellects minus the abuse and the personal attacks; this kind of thing has become rare. My views are more or less identical with @Prechko but with far lesser information than he has - consolidated information, that is; the individual components are familiar, but not the whole perspective.

I haven't read their posts.
The discussion on language baffles me. I have always felt that everyone tries to impose his/her version on the other, same is true for history. It's easier for ppl to accept AIT (Aryan invasion theory) and influence of foreign language but are reticent to accept that it could have happened in the reverse direction too.
Will read the other posts on this thread later.

Buh-bye.