Is a Pro-Active Germany the best for Europe

[Declein]

I voted for "Yes. German military re-armament and deployment is necessary for Europe's safety and security"
but in reality I don't think it will happen.

The thing is - they don't want to. The German society is strictly anti militarism, as a consequence of WW2 and it's aftermach, and won't support a (much) more active stance.
Hell, the USA have been pushing for years for a more active Germany, as it would help with their load....

What will happen, and it's happening, is a closer cooperation between the E European countries & USA, with a gradual boost in defense spendings/capabilities - creating a sort "bulwark" towards any aggression coming in from the East (Russia, UA, Belarus..etc) with countries that are actually willing to do it.

At the moment Germany would be hard pressed to take on the Polish army...

@flamer84 Prearea mea - Axa noastra trebuei sa fie Polonia-noi-Turcia, plus ce alte state mai mici vor sa se bage. Cu USA in spate.
Asta cu UE e vrajeala, e buna ca alianta economica si atat

 

[flamer84]

I voted for "Yes. German military re-armament and deployment is necessary for Europe's safety and security"
but in reality I don't think it will happen.

The thing is - they don't want to. The German society is strictly anti militarism, as a consequence of WW2 and it's aftermach, and won't support a (much) more active stance.
Hell, the USA have been pushing for years for a more active Germany, as it would help with their load....

What will happen, and it's happening, is a closer cooperation between the E European countries & USA, with a gradual boost in defense spendings/capabilities - creating a sort "bulwark" towards any aggression coming in from the East (Russia, UA, Belarus..etc) with countries that are actually willing to do it.

At the moment Germany would be hard pressed to take on the Polish army...

@flamer84 Prearea mea - Axa noastra trebuei sa fie Polonia-noi-Turcia, plus ce alte state mai mici vor sa se bage. Cu USA in spate.
Asta cu UE e vrajeala, e buna ca alianta economica si atat

Asta pare sa fie unica optiune viabila pentru noi,mai ales dupa ce au facut aia 2 imbecili la Minsk.Turcia pare sa se distanteze insa si par destul de fericiti sa mulga doua vaci,doar noi si polonezii ce suntem hotarati sa ne mentinem pozitia.M-a cam pus pe ganduri si Iohannis cu axa lui prin Berlin.Germania n-a dat dovada de seriozitate in fata Rusiei.

Mai sus am zis ce mi-ar surade mie insa sunt constient ca nu prea e practic.

 

[vostok]

More active Germany can only be in a case if from its territory will be removed occupation troops. Otherwise, it will be more active America in Germany, not Germany itself.

 

[xenon54 out]

A ''pro-active'' Germany is the nightmare of its neighbors.

Now jokes aside, Germany cant be a military Nation again, most Germans are agains military and pacifists due to historical reasons, too bad tbh because otherwise we would see more state of art military equipment from German engineers.


Looking at civilian sector they surely would come up with top notch stuff that would put the superpowers to shame.

 

[Desert Fox]

Europe got what it deserved for waging a fratricidal war against Germany in 1939-1945. Now they have to deal with mass immigration and Islamic extremism of a massive proportion, a powerful yet dictatorial America and an emerging Russia, being squeezed in between the two powers (a kind of repeat of the cold war), not to mention a powerful non-European/non-Western entity like China backing Russia.

If only they had made peace with Germany in 1939 instead of declaring war on Germany, perhaps it would have been Europe today dictating to America what to and what not to do.

And now they want Germany to play a proactive role in military affairs after having demilitarized Germany for more than 60 years?? Too bad, you got what you wanted. This is the Europe Churchill, Roosevelt, and all of the other allied leaders dreamed of. Now deal with the mess you created. You reap what you sow.

I am pretty much divided on this.On one hand i am pro a strong Germany but can't see anything good from it with its current politicians .As we saw from the recent visit of tweetle de and tweetle dum to Minsk (Francois the socialist and Angela the feminist ) they won't hesitate to serve Eastern Europe on a platter to Moscow again for their interests.I am pretty much tired of having my future exchanged for others peace of mind.

Personally i am in favour for a strong EU,both militarily and economic but not the current EU.I am for a strong Federation of States that preserve the nation states but binds them together in a centralised form especially when it comes to economic measures.social and military issues.A common platform when it comes to demographic problems (we've talked before about this),all states should spend 2.2-2.5% on Defence by law.Large European battlegroups should be created,EU Defence funds should be alocated to France so she could increase it's nuclear arsenal which would be extended by Treaty to cover all of the EU,a EURO Shield similar with what the Americans are building now should be implemented but with its control in the hands of an European Military Board.All these capabilities should be connected to the new Gallileo satellite system ,and not the US GPS.Within 8-10 years from now if this would be implemented NATO should be disbanded and the US politely asked to leave.I could live with the fact that a country like mine would be a junior partner in such an arangement but i can't live with being in Russia's sphere of influence again.

If Europe can't learn from it's mistakes from WW1,WW2,if it can see that altough we are different nations we have a common heritage,a common goal,that those wars shifted the balance of power from Europe to others,than Europe won't matter in the future.

I don't think the US is going to allow any of this to happen (disbanding NATO, dismantling American bases and military presence, decreasing American political, economic, & military influence over Europe) so long as it continues to hold the dictatorial position. Europe sold its soul to America in 1941, and now must do as it says or else deal with a powerful Russia which is ever more hungry for more territory.

Its like choosing between siding with a lion against a tiger when both can kill you.

 

[flamer84]

Europe got what it deserved for waging a fratricidal war against Germany in 1939-1945. Now they have to deal with mass immigration and Islamic extremism of a massive proportion, a powerful yet dictatorial America and an emerging Russia, being squeezed in between the two powers (a kind of repeat of the cold war), not to mention a powerful non-European/non-Western entity like China backing Russia.

If only they had made peace with Germany in 1939 instead of declaring war on Germany, perhaps it would have been Europe today dictating to America what to and what not to do.

And now they want Germany to play a proactive role in military affairs after having demilitarized Germany for more than 60 years?? Too bad, you got what you wanted. This is the Europe Churchill, Roosevelt, and all of the other allied leaders dreamed of. Now deal with the mess you created. You reap what you sow.


I don't think the US is going to allow any of this to happen (disbanding NATO, dismantling American bases and military presence, decreasing American political, economic, & military influence over Europe) so long as it continues to hold the dictatorial position. Europe sold its soul to America in 1941, and now must do as it says or else deal with a powerful Russia which is ever more hungry for more territory.

Its like choosing between siding with a lion against a tiger when both can kill you.

The 1939 Germany should have not invaded fellow European countries like Czecholovakia,Poland.For all the idiotic hate spread by her leader they should have known that Poland for example was a country with centuries older than Germany and with a role for defending Europe against outside invaders,see the Polish role in saving Viena.1939 Germany got what it deserved for being to greedy.1939 and 1914 Germany destroyed Europe because it wanted more power,because it was upset that they united only in the middle of the 19th century thus missing on the colonial festine.1918 and 1945 Germany serve a lesson for today's Germany that if they want to be a power again they should do it with Europe not against Europe.

 

[Desert Fox]

The 1939 Germany should have not invaded fellow European countries like Czecholovakia,Poland.For all the idiotic hate spread by her leader they should have known that Poland for example was a country with centuries older than Germany and with a role for defending Europe against outside invaders,see the Polish role in saving Viena.1939 Germany got what it deserved for being to greedy.1939 and 1914 Germany destroyed Europe because it wanted more power,because it was upset that they united only in the middle of the 19th century thus missing on the colonial festine.1918 and 1945 Germany serve a lesson for today's Germany that if they want to be a power again they should do it with Europe not against Europe.

Czechoslovakia was an artificial state & It was demographically unstable and all of her neighbors laid claims to her territory. Poland & Hungary also invaded Czechoslovakia in coordination with the Germans. Funny how the Poles are made to look like victims.

Regarding the invasion of Poland, if the Poles hadn't been slaughtering & deporting millions of ethnic Germans from the Danzig corridor (which had been German for 700 years) then im sure the Germans wouldn't have had a reason for attacking Poland. The Germans didn't just wake up one day and decide to invade random European countries because they got joy out of it.

In fact, the Germans were negotiating an alliance with the Poles against the Soviet Union, but the Poles were being instigated by the British and French not to conclude any agreements with the Germans. Because you see, the British and French cared so much about Poland that they handed it over to Stalin at Yalta and Potsdam, along with the entire Eastern and Central Europe, to experience the joys of living behind the iron curtain for 5 decades.

1939 Germany got what it deserved for being to greedy.1939 and 1914 Germany destroyed Europe because it wanted more power,because it was upset that they united only in the middle of the 19th century thus missing on the colonial festine.1918 and 1945 Germany serve a lesson for today's Germany that if they want to be a power again they should do it with Europe not against Europe.

Yes, it was Germany that destroyed Europe by thwarting an imminent Soviet invasion of the European continent. It was Germany that destroyed Europe by supplying millions of tons of war materials and food stuffs to the regime that would slaughter millions of Europeans from 1945-1990. Lets not even mention the fact that Germany attempted to make peace with Britain 12 times between 1939-1941 in the hope of preventing any further bloodshed in Europe. Lets not mention that Hitler spared the lives of more than 300,000 French and British soldiers at Dunkirk in the hope that sense might prevail within the British leadership that he did not want war with Britain.

Good riddance of those Nazis, Europe is better off today with its millions of third world refugees who have flooded European countries, leech on welfare, behead Europeans, shoot Europeans, rape & pimp thousands of European women and underage girls (& get gov.t protection for doing so), blow up metro trains and implement no-go-zones and Shariah Controlled districts. Europe today could not have been better, especially when European gov.t's protect and hide the rapists of 1400+ underage English girls through political correctness and "anti-discriminatory" laws. Also, another perk of Nazi riddance is sacrificing European men in American made wars in the Middle East and then being flooded by refugees from those wars. Not to mention being squeezed between America and Russia. Life could not have been better.

Yes, Germany got what it deserved for wanting a Europe independent of foreign domination.