IRIAF | News and Discussions

[mohsen]

Go 21:40 into the video

Between 21:50 - 21:55

He states that we built a working prototype and chose not to pursue it! If you understood Farsi you would understand that!
And he continues by clearly implying that the Saegheh & Kowsar 88 are superior

But he doesn't kill hope!!! Politely says that he spoke to the Qhaher project manager we have to reconsider some of the characteristics of the Qaher & after the Kowsar 88 project is completed we will restart R&D in a revised version of the Q-313

Basically he told the F-313 project manager you have until the end of the Kowsar 88 project to bring me a new design of the Qaher that has the potential of being superior to the Saegheh & I will give you the R&D funds, tools a facilities to build a prototype!

But the F-313 that you have a picture of with those wings and that shape is dead because it's been tested and rejected. and a more powerful engine is not going to solve the issue and he has till the end of the Kowsar 88 project to come up with a design that the DIO will investigate and decide whether to fund or not as it should be

and that's where I doubt whether you talk persian!

full translation:
Host asks about Saege.
Dehghan:
Saege was produced and was delivered to air force.

host insists and asks about a more advanced version of Saeqe:

Dehghan:
look, that aircraft (project) is over, has been delivered to airforce, and is operational.
about Qaher, a conceptual and engineer design has been done and a sample was built (nothing about a working prototype),
yet we didn't continue it, the reason was that we had Saeqe, plus Kowthar 88 (project) which is a transonic training aircraft; we put it in our agenda to finish it first to cover the airforce training needs. then we go toward Qaher which could be a close (combat) support aircraft, and later in future versions could be an interceptor, a bomber, etc,
and today I talked with Mr Shah Safi (the chief commander of airforce, not the project manager) to reconsider some of its features (so nothing about which version, temporary or constant or custom ver, upgrade or downgrade), god willing after kowthar88 reached production phase, we will put the Qaher's R&D in our agenda.

so it's clear either you don't understand Persian or you just live in your delusion.

your argument about Qaher 313 is so childish and baseless that I really have to push myself to answer them. some like the place of inlet, the shape of wings, etc.
an interceptor doesn't necessary need to be dog fight capable (though they say Qaher has it), look at Mig 25 for example. also our country isn't that big and if we can use Qaher as a point defense then the whole speed argument will become irrelevant.

a mach 3 monster, look at its wings:

 

[VEVAK]

and that's where I doubt whether you talk persian!

full translation:
Host asks about Saege.
Dehghan:
Saege was produced and was delivered to air force.

host insists and asks about a more advanced version of Saeqe:

Dehghan:
look, that aircraft (project) is over, has been delivered to airforce, and is operational.
about Qaher, a conceptual and engineer design has been done and a sample was built (nothing about a working prototype),
yet we didn't continue it, the reason was that we had Saeqe, plus Kowthar 88 (project) which is a transonic training aircraft; we put it in our agenda to finish it first to cover the airforce training needs. then we go toward Qaher which could be a close (combat) support aircraft, and later in future versions could be an interceptor, a bomber, etc,
and today I talked with Mr Shah Safi (the chief commander of airforce, not the project manager) to reconsider some of its features (so nothing about which version, temporary or constant or custom ver, upgrade or downgrade), god willing after kowthar88 reached production phase, we will put the Qaher's R&D in our agenda.

so it's clear either you don't understand Persian or you just live in your delusion.

your argument about Qaher 313 is so childish and baseless that I really have to push myself to answer them. some like the place of inlet, the shape of wings, etc.
an interceptor doesn't necessary need to be dog fight capable (though they say Qaher has it), look at Mig 25 for example. also our country isn't that big and if we can use Qaher as a point defense then the whole speed argument will become irrelevant.

a mach 3 monster, look at its wings:

I'm talking about the thickness of the wing and it's fuselage

XFV-12 was Mach 2+ aircraft and needed max thrust of 30,000 lbf to get there so it's possible but needs to be redesigned

and that's where I doubt whether you talk persian!

full translation:
Host asks about Saege.
Dehghan:
Saege was produced and was delivered to air force.

host insists and asks about a more advanced version of Saeqe:

Dehghan:
look, that aircraft (project) is over, has been delivered to airforce, and is operational.
about Qaher, a conceptual and engineer design has been done and a sample was built (nothing about a working prototype),
yet we didn't continue it, the reason was that we had Saeqe, plus Kowthar 88 (project) which is a transonic training aircraft; we put it in our agenda to finish it first to cover the airforce training needs. then we go toward Qaher which could be a close (combat) support aircraft, and later in future versions could be an interceptor, a bomber, etc,
and today I talked with Mr Shah Safi (the chief commander of airforce, not the project manager) to reconsider some of its features (so nothing about which version, temporary or constant or custom ver, upgrade or downgrade), god willing after kowthar88 reached production phase, we will put the Qaher's R&D in our agenda.

so it's clear either you don't understand Persian or you just live in your delusion.

your argument about Qaher 313 is so childish and baseless that I really have to push myself to answer them. some like the place of inlet, the shape of wings, etc.
an interceptor doesn't necessary need to be dog fight capable (though they say Qaher has it), look at Mig 25 for example. also our country isn't that big and if we can use Qaher as a point defense then the whole speed argument will become irrelevant.

a mach 3 monster, look at its wings:

Because a new design wouldn't be called Saegheh anymore or else the Saegheh should just be called Azarakhsh

And I didn't do a word for world translation

Yek nemoneh as on sakhteh shood = a working prototype

Khodeto mekhay khar koni, befarma.... vali hagheegat ean e

nemoneh sakhteh shod vali ma on o edameh nadodeem daleelesh ham hast Saegheh (yeh maks kard Hint Saegheh is far superior so why the hell would we) kowsar 88 keh soratehsham kheyli balla has... (Hint the F-313 was too slow)

Agheh vaghean to farsi balad bodi manzoresho mefahmeedi

akharesh ya khari o ya fahmeh dark kardaneh harf a sho nadari!

 

[VEVAK]

The testing was no more negative than any other experimental aircraft program BUT the real reason the Navy cancelled was the lack of armament capabilities.

They slanted the wings on the XFV-12 to reduce wing size because they wanted VTOL aircraft

Go read a little about how the speed of sound was broken and you will understand why the F-313 will need major changes to go subsonic

The aircraft had greater than 1 weight to thrust ratio and it still couldn't takeoff vertically

Putting slanted wings is a mistake and I'm not talking about the edge of the wings

The F-313 is a light single engine aircraft with 2 Vertical Stabilizers in the back and 2 slanted stabilizers on the edge of the wings add to the slanted wings this all increases drag for no reason

B-70A and the edge of the wings on the B-70 are like that for whole another reason

 

[mohsen]

I'm talking about the thickness of the wing and it's fuselage

XFV-12 was Mach 2+ aircraft and needed max thrust of 30,000 lbf to get there so it's possible but needs to be redesigned

View attachment 334762



Because a new design wouldn't be called Saegheh anymore or else the Saegheh should just be called Azarakhsh

And I didn't do a word for world translation

Yek nemoneh as on sakhteh shood = a working prototype

Khodeto mekhay khar koni, befarma.... vali hagheegat ean e

nemoneh sakhteh shod vali ma on o edameh nadodeem daleelesh ham hast Saegheh (yeh maks kard Hint Saegheh is far superior so why the hell would we) kowsar 88 keh soratehsham kheyli balla has... (Hint the F-313 was too slow)

Agheh vaghean to farsi balad bodi manzoresho mefahmeedi

akharesh ya khari o ya fahmeh dark kardaneh harf a sho nadari!

Dehghan said sample, and if you translate it to prototype, still it doesn't mean a working prototype.
you just love to troll on Qaher 313 subject, even by making lies.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Prototype

Qaher's wings are fine, thickness, size and shape. but of course you know a lot more than our engineers, they had to hire your smart arse to understand how to design a fighter!

 

[VEVAK]

Iran can redesign the F-313 around 2 powerful engines far better designed than this and give it stealth characteristics BUT

1. Wings shouldn't be slanted

2. remove the edge of the wings because fixed slanted wings at the angle that they are will cause the aircraft to shake just like the F-4 does at supersonic speeds

2. increase the angle of the wing

3. reduce the thickness of the wings

4. Replace the front wings to canards again if you don't this will cause the aircraft to shake at supersonic speeds

5. You need bigger inlets for bigger engines and a more aerodynamic body

Dehghan said sample, and if you translate it to prototype, still it doesn't mean a working prototype.
you just love to troll on Qaher 313 subject, even by making lies.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Prototype

Qaher's wings are fine, thickness, size and shape. but of course you know a lot more than our engineers, they had to hire your smart arse to understand how to design a fighter!

Again go read about how the speed of sound was broken!!!

Even your own source the project manager said in the link you posted that it was not a mockup but the real thing!!!

Ya mekhay beh zoor khodeto khar koni, ya mekhay to ean site chosi beyay ya vagheann khari!!!

Dehghan also said bayad dar bareh bazi az vejegee hash tajdeedeh nazar koneem va bad as ean keh Kowsar 88 beh toleed reseed bad on o to kar ha """tahgheeghati va pajoheshe mebareem"""

So they have to fix the design bad DIO will do some tahgheeghat on it!!! SO we will not produce this version you have a picture of!!! Get that through your head!!!

 

[OldTwilight]

do you want that our Defense Ministry appoint you as Qaher Project manager and head designer !?
most of us are ordinary people who are wasting their times in a military forum rather than telegram ...

 

[925boy]

Iran obv has the money for very good fighter jets. its not an issue of money. Main issue is access, quality and reliability of the potentially new purchases.

 

[rahi2357]

Guys end the fight over Q-313 . Our Defense Minister said IRIAF rejected it but IRGC wants a flyable 1:1 prototype . So we are not going to see it in IRIAF . As simple as that .

Some photos of old times.
F-16 prototype & Iran's flag

Our air force started with this

Once upon a time F-14

 

[Rukarl]

@VEVAK

Could you give an explanation of the different grades of Titanium etc and composites Iran needs and what is the difficulty in producing them in lab scale and mass producing. What stage is Iran at?

Not long ago their revealed the vacuum arc remelting etc, this is surely a good news. I hope to see bigger versions of those.

 

[VEVAK]

do you want that our Defense Ministry appoint you as Qaher Project manager and head designer !?
most of us are ordinary people who are wasting their times in a military forum rather than telegram ...

I promise you if I was the head of that project and I had access to the facilities, materials, tools and personal required I could have easily developed an Airframe for a fighter jet platform far superior to the Q-313, Saegheh, Shafaq, F-4E, F-1, Su-24 & F-7 and I'm willing to bet my life on it accept to be mamoueel khoroj for life and if I was not able to preform as advertised with a working prototype within 6 years they are fully free to execute as long as they adhere to my requirements for the project.

1. The fighter will have to be a twin engine aircraft with a combined max thrust of +23k lbf dry / +35,000 lbf with afterburner and they will have to provide me the engines. RD-33 should do I can work with J-79 but it will cost them range
2.Access to all the materials, tools & personal I would require that's already available in Iran.
3.Access to any already available equipment & part I would require from ejection seats to any other aircraft part or equipment already available in Iran for the full scare prototype.

Even with 2 OWJ engines I can easily build an airframe that has a smaller RCS than the Saegheh and is faster than the F-313 and capable of carrying up to 3 weapons internally the aircraft would be a bit slower than the saegheh but will have a greater combat radius and the airframe's titanium requirements will be under 1500 lb using the same type of aluminum /Titanium composite they used in the saegheh

@VEVAK

Could you give an explanation of the different grades of Titanium etc and composites Iran needs and what is the difficulty in producing them in lab scale and mass producing. What stage is Iran at?

Not long ago their revealed the vacuum arc remelting etc, this is surely a good news. I hope to see bigger versions of those.

https://books.google.com/books?isbn=161503062X

 

[mohsen]

I promise you if I was the head of that project and I had access to the facilities, materials, tools and personal required I could have easily developed an Airframe for a fighter jet platform far superior to the Q-313, Saegheh, Shafaq, F-4E, F-1, Su-24 & F-7 and I'm willing to bet my life on it accept to be mamoueel khoroj for life and if I was not able to preform as advertised with a working prototype within 6 years they are fully free to execute as long as they adhere to my requirements for the project.

1. The fighter will have to be a twin engine aircraft with a combined max thrust of +23k lbf dry / +35,000 lbf with afterburner and they will have to provide me the engines. RD-33 should do I can work with J-79 but it will cost them range
2.Access to all the materials, tools & personal I would require that's already available in Iran.
3.Access to any already available equipment & part I would require from ejection seats to any other aircraft part or equipment already available in Iran for the full scare prototype.

Even with 2 OWJ engines I can easily build an airframe that has a smaller RCS than the Saegheh and is faster than the F-313 and capable of carrying up to 3 weapons internally the aircraft would be a bit slower than the saegheh but will have a greater combat radius and the airframe's titanium requirements will be under 1500 lb using the same type of aluminum /Titanium composite they used in the saegheh



https://books.google.com/books?isbn=161503062X

Like I said they just didn't have you!

 

[VEVAK]

@Rukarl

Read this book
https://books.google.com/books?isbn=161503062X

Titanium or black sand is one of the top 10 most abundant materials in the world it looks like black sand and Iran has a lot of it but turning it into alloy is extremely difficult and expensive you basically have to 1st turn it into gas form (mixed with chlorine) and then extract the chlorine from that and turn in into titanium sponge and then there is another process to turn it into alloy

You also need magnesium which is also expensive

Also producing titanium and aluminum both require a lot of electricity and also there are different titanium aluminum composites that will also be required in producing a fighter and they are also extremely expensive to produce
The titanium used in the F-5 is mostly in the Aluminum titanium composite required in the airframe

the difference in being able to produce it in a lab va industrial production is basically the difference of enriching uranium using 1 centrifuge in a lab vs having 100,000 centrifuges to meet the needs of a country the size of Iran (This is just an example)

Also working with titanium is extremely difficult and expensive you also need to do heat treatments and the larger the part the harder it is to work with for large parts you need massive vacuum furnaces

It's an extremely expensive process that requires advanced and expensive tools

Like I said they just didn't have you!

Has nothing to do with me! I know Iranian personally that could do a far better job that I ever could both in management and design!!

In fact the aircraft with 2 OWJ engines I was talking about is one of their designs...

The problem we have is in party bazi games that give jobs to people that don't deserve it.

 

[Darkman]

https://defence.pk/threads/boeing-saab-to-unveil-their-t-x-design-today.449150/page-2#post-8692242

 

[The SiLent crY]

One of the most memorable moments of my military service happened 2 days ago when I was in the 8th Raptor airbase .

I saw an F-14 taking off in front of me from like 100 meters distance . It was outstanding .

 

[yavar]

بالگرد ( بل ) 412 ساخت پنها

از 6 فروند بالگرد جدید جمعیت هلال‌احمر رونمایی شد
صبح امروز و با حضور معاون اول رئیس جمهوری، وزیر بهداشت، درمان و آموزش پزشکی، معاون علمی و فناوری رئیس جمهوری، رئیس جمعیت هلال احمر و دیگر مسئولان ارشد جمعیت از 6 فروند بالگرد جدید هلال‌احمر رونمایی شد.
به گزارش گروه اجتماعی خبرگزاری آنا از جمعیت هلال احمر، صبح امروز در مراسمی با حضور اسحاق جهانگیری؛ معاون اول رئیس‌جمهوری، حسن هاشمی؛ وزیر بهداشت، درمان و آموزش پزشکی، سورنا ستاری؛ معاون علمی و فناوری رئیس جمهوری، امیر محسن ضیائی؛ رئیس جمعیت هلال احمر و حجت الاسلام و المسلمین معزی؛ نماینده مقام معظم رهبری در هلال‌احمر و دیگر مسئولان جمعیت، مراسم رونمایی از 6 فروند بالگرد جدید 412 ای. پی در سازمان امداد و نجات جمعیت برگزار شد.
با اضافه شدن این 6 فروند بالگرد، ناوگان امداد هوایی به 23 فروند بالگرد مجهز شد.
همچنین اسحاق جهانگیری در آیین رونمایی از 6 فروند بالگرد امدادی هلال احمر فرمان پرواز این بالگردها را صادر کرد.

وی در این فرمان اظهار کرد: با استعانت از ارواح پاک شهدای اسلام، فرمان پرواز بالگردهای امدادی هلال احمر صادر می‌شود امیدوارم با ورود این 6 فروند بالگرد امدادی به ناوگان امداد هوایی کشور جمعیت هلال احمر بیش از گذشته در خدمت به مردم و ایران اسلامی و همچنین افراد در سایر مناطق بکوشیم

http://new.ana.ir/news/147731