IRIAF | News and Discussions

[ReasonableStar75]

Iran Fakours are beast and one of the reasons US in the bay always...

I don t know why iranians does not give this technologies to allies as Syria, i think it s a good development and research to change the noses of russian warplanes and make capable to launch these BVR missiles.

Since they are BVR ,Israel warplanes won t never approach Syrian coast. Iran must be open to new ideas for its defence and the defence of allies, as US does always with their allies.

 

[LegionnairE]

If you read the report you will see even AMRAAM missiles perform badly.

Here is how Russian R-37M is performing against more “ancient” Ukrainian aircraft

Russia’s Best Missile Can Hit Ukrainian Jets From 80 Miles Away. But Ukrainian Pilots Know How To Dodge.

“We created different tactics for how to avoid this missile—and that’s why it’s not so succesful against our jets,” Ukrainian Mikoyan MiG-29 pilot “Juice” told Lithuanian broadcaster Delfi.

www.forbes.com

Why would anyone think an A2A missile can excel at BVR ranges with an inferior radar when powerful ground based radars and air defense systems struggle to get consistently kills beyond 50-75KM?

Do you think F-14/F-22/F-35 has a more powerful radar than S400/Patriot/Arrow? Do you think the homing beacon inside a A2A missile is more powerful than that of a long range air defense missile like Sayyad-4 ?

Don’t fall into the hype of BVR, rely on statistics until proven otherwise. In this day and age you have sophisticated jammers/ECM pods as well as AWACs flying. So even harder than 1960-1990 to secure air to air kills beyond visual range.

Until a BVR is able to demonstrate it’s worth in actual battlefield consistently, then it’s hype by the arms manufacturers. They are relatively unproven and their predecessors haven’t faired well in war.

Just like in a firefight, where most rounds are fired to suppress the enemy, same goes in air to air combat. A lot of the time you fire an AMRAAM to turn the enemy defensive, because he can't dash towards the missile , he has to turn his tail to avoid getting killed.

Unlike ground based SAMs though, a fighter jet will chase you down and kill you. That's big part of the reason why 12x R77s on the Su35 is so significant.

Radars have become extremely powerful, they aren't a bottleneck anymore unless you're dealing with fifth gen stealth fighters / bombers.

 

[LegionnairE]

SARH has a massive advantage for fighters with long-ranged radars like F-14AM (upgraded AWG-9 with 800+ new parts, totally digitalised). An F-14 can track a F-15/SU-27 like fighter (RCS of ~10 m^2) at 150-200 KM depending upon aspect, launch some 2-3 Fakour-90 LRBVR from 150 KM, climb up and slow down to keep illuminating the target while staying within the cover of Iranian IADS (S-300, Bavar-373, 3rd Khordad LR-SAMS).

ECM of the adversary can jam ARH's antenna coming at it but can't jam SARH which is getting data packets of tracking info from F-14AM's WMC some 150 (and closing) KM away. ARH seeker of missile has 100 T/R elements but SARH missile is getting track info from radar with ~800-1000 T/R elements. In F-14AM's case it may even be getting track info itself from AESA radars on the ground such as Bavar-373's AESA track radars have a range of 400 KM with the capability of tracking 60 targets. That's some 10000 T/R modules guiding the interceptor missile. Good luck to the adversary with their "ECM".

Besides, The seeker of Fakour-90 is highly modern with ECM in-built, so it cant be jammed. It has been tested for tracking against 0.01m~2 RCS bearing Flying wing Shahed Saeghe UCAVs while being jammed by Falcon E-warfare platforms of IRIAF in air, it still succeeded. It is all available here https://www.key.aero/article/new-claws-persian-cats

There is a 200+ KM range bearing Maghsoud LR-BVR coming with ARH+ECM. Its already shown, it will be there in time. Meanwhile, Fakour-90 is enough to massacre 4th generation fighters even outside iranian skies.

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Provide evidence that a missile bearing

- ECM
- capability to track <0.1 m^2 targets
- motor that can push it to 4-5 Mach
- ranging at 150 KM

is ancient technology?



R-77 Export variant has 60% of Fakour range so no. Only advantage it will have is that its a light missile so it can arm SU-35S, MIG-29 SMT (if upgraded) and Kowsar-I if its Bayyenat-I radar (copy of Grifo-346) can be plugged in with Russian AAM.



Provide evidence that iranians say Kowsar is best 4th generation fighter?



Both SU-35S and F-15 have an RCS of 10+ m~2. If they wear 12 x AAM the size of BVR's their RCS will enhance further. Long range search radars of enemies like OTH of IRIADF's, will see such a target even taking off from their runways, track radars of the layer will be waiting for them to come near. Modern combat aviation has changed which is why focus has gone to lowering RCS and ECM.

Simply put, if SARH was good enough, we would still be using it. On paper Phoenix has a lot of range but you can't utilize it. You can maybe kill a balloon at 150km

In reality you will spend your 4-6 missiles at long range, the enemy will close in and kill you with the remainder of his 12 fucking missiles.

Any idiot can make a big missile, The ability to make it smaller to make it fit into an internal weapons bay, the ability to make it lighter so that you can carry ridiculous numbers like 12 is what matters in 21st century.

 

[mack8]

Now the rumour mill goes that Iran might get some Su-30s (probably SMEs i would think), in addition to the Su-35, primarily for conversion purposes.

https://twitter.com/x/status/1699752371193029081

However, the Su-30SM would be an excellent replacement for the F-4 as a multipurpose fighter, and even for Su-24 (Iran can't really afford single purpose bombers imo considering the regional situation, they need every fighter they can get), though the later will be modernized according to rumours.

As far as i'm concerned, Iran should get as many Su-35 and Su-30SM as it can afford, and a light fighter to complement them such as MiG-35 or J-10 (perhaps seeing Russia sell stuff to Iran would make China follow too) to replace the F-5. Then in the 2030s and beyond Su-57 and J-31 or T-75 to replace any remaining american aircraft and remaining MiG-29/ Su-24.

Well that's my fantasy IRIAF anyway.

 

[ReasonableStar75]

Now the rumour mill goes that Iran might get some Su-30s (probably SMEs i would think), in addition to the Su-35, primarily for conversion purposes.

https://twitter.com/x/status/1699752371193029081

However, the Su-30SM would be an excellent replacement for the F-4 as a multipurpose fighter, and even for Su-24 (Iran can't really afford single purpose bombers imo considering the regional situation, they need every fighter they can get), though the later will be modernized according to rumours.

As far as i'm concerned, Iran should get as many Su-35 and Su-30SM as it can afford, and a light fighter to complement them such as MiG-35 or J-10 (perhaps seeing Russia sell stuff to Iran would make China will follow too) to replace the F-5. Then in the 2030s and beyond Su-57 and J-31 or T-75 to replace any remaining american aircraft and remaining MiG-29/ Su-24.

Well that's my fantasy IRIAF anyway.

It s nice Iran is going to take Russian SUs, for one time Russia did the right choice. Russia must empower Iran air force, but Iran must bet in its indigenous program also. Iran must make neccesary jumps, and allignate with real military power as US, Russia and China.

Iran cannot be an average poor country.

 

[tsunset]

Su-30?

 

[RΛIDEN]

Now this may be a hype post:

https://twitter.com/x/status/1699477601322988029

But here's my speculation based on the recent events following Russian-Iranian Cooperation:

1. Complete military flight training has been covered

• Ab Initio class - Mushshaq / SocataTB
• Basic all piston class - Parastu-14 / F.33 / PC-7 / EMB-312
• Intermediate jet class - Dorna
• Advanced jet class - Yasin
• LIFT class - Yak-130
• Operational conversion fighter trainer class - FT-7N / Simorgh / Kowsar / MiG29UB / Su25UBK

2. Yasin & Yak-130 will keep IRIAF pilots futureproof with both western and eastern aircrafts, as @AmirPatriot rightfully posted

3. Operating Yak-130 opens the door for Iranian pilots to have multiple options (Su30/Su35/...next gen Su variants) for future procurement

4. An all out Sukhoi cooperation including SSJ-100 (both military & civilian) may result in joint production (gradual infrastructure creation) as seen with aircraft overhauls

5. Like Iran, Ukraine AF deploys MiG29/Su24/Su25. A big chance of having these jets compromised remain. A legitimate concern for an upgrade to latest version highly likely

 

[TheImmortal]

light fighter to complement them such as MiG-35 or J-10 (perhaps seeing Russia sell stuff to Iran would make

The only problem with MIG-35 is it’s still in prototype stage. Less than 10 exist (8). I’m not sure realistically at this time Russia has the time to build these during the Ukraine war or even wants to.

Getting SU-30 & SU-35 while getting our own MIG and SU upgraded would be HUGE.

I would focus on joint development of SU-75 “checkmate” (not to be confused with SU-57) with Russia for the future.

With 6th gen USAF fighters emerging sometime in mid 2030’s along with Turkish and NATO next gen fighter jets, any additional 4th gen purchases seems a waste.

SU-35 provides an immediate IADS protector, but eventually Iran will need 5th gen low RCS protectors to increase survivability wether that comes from Russia or Iran’s domestic development or both, doesn’t matter. By 2030’s even the Arabs will be flying 5th Gen fighters (US, European, or Chinese).

 

[ReasonableStar75]

I see the future of iranian indigenous aircraft seeding in F-5 to F-17 and evolving to something like russian checkmate. I think Iran is being timid, thanks all people jokes about qaher in the past,our punishment will be not to know anything about progress and mature of iranian war jets programs...

I think Iran goes for the checkmate evolution, a little but deadly stealth warcraft.

 

[mack8]

There is an article on IRIAF F-14 in the latest Flug Revue magazine by BT but it's in german, anyone knowing german read it and is there anything interesting there? I see Su-35SE, Yak-130 and Su-30SME mentioned. Also i see he keeps calling the AIM-23B as Maghsoud, i thought it's Sedjil?

 

[sanel1412]

For god sake Fakour 90 just like AIM 54 use ARH guidance,literary anyone who listened how missile is described at unveling ceremony knows that. Fakour 90 has 15% longer range than AIM 54,missiles they showed at ceremony used different rocket motors than production missiles. SARH is bistatic arangment,and SARH missile has only passive seeker that picks up signal reflected from target. Just stop this nonsense started by few idiots who saw Fakour 90 prototypes use same rocket motor as HAWK missile and make conclusion it is modernised HAWK in AIM 54 body,it would be stupid to implement SARH at such long range(remeber missile has to pick up signal reflected from target) when Iran produce ARH seeker with 45km range(more or less like AMRAAM) and can simple improve and produce missile like AIM 54....Much nonsense from some members about SARH....literary every Iranian SAM is SARH....no one implement SARH any more,forget about that...most people dont even understand that in SARH missile is passive...just passive reciver...last time I saw Iranian new missiles they all have literary small radar anntenas with both TR and Recivers insides thus we can see Airdefense systems have separate equipment for datalinks...Last SAM I know used SARH was BUK and later they modernized it with ARH...Only Iranian missile I saw with passive seeker are SA-6 Kub modernisation in form of RAAD.

 

[sanel1412]

This is quote from one of those experts
"Minor correction - the AIM-54 use a semi-active guidance mode for it's midcourse, the active guidance component is only for the last 20,000 yards or so during terminal guidance. (Launches within this range band can, of course, begin in active guidance.) Given the Iranian claims that the missile has at least some active component, the Fakour probably functions similarly."
This is wrong ofcourse,AiM 54 is ARH missile and it work as any ARH missile....it get mid course updates till it reach in range of onboard radar(ARH)...AMRAAM and every other ARH missile work same way...AMRAAM ARH has range 45-50km and it is fire forget in that range....AIM 54 ARH range is 25km...but I just want you to show how people dont have clue what they talk about...SARH ghidance is completly different thing,it is bistatic arrangment where there is one radar with recivers and transmites(in aircraft) and passive seeker inside missile...What this quoted gentlmen is talking about are 3 modes AIM 54 can be lunched 1. Continues wave illumination,2. Fully fire forget up to 25km and 3. Is longest range,where missile is updated by AWG till it reach ARH range...but that has nothing to do with SARH,AIM 7 is SARH and it is completly different....ARH and SARH are similar just in name,those are completly different technologies and implementations. So a lot of confuse....I mean just look A-A missiles...SARH is implemented up to medium ranges,while all long range missilea are ARH....R27 has 3 variants SARH,IR and ARH...longest range is ARH...
Today Air defense system mostly have multiple guidance and missiles with different kind of seekers and if SARH is implemented,it would be in missiles with dual seekers. I mean,as explained,radar from aircraft transmits signal while missile passive seeker literary pick up reflected signal...think about stealth....it is worst technology ...first you have to have poverful transmiter and second missile has to pick up signal from target designed to absorb it....today at long ranges you use LPI radars to track target and than communicate with missile directly and update it...till it reach in to range of own ARH. That is one way of doing it,different kind of terminal seekers can be used...ARH...or IIR..
WE should recall,Iran is country that had access to ARH missile before most other countries,only after US....I mean in 2000 China only BVR missile was R27 while Iran already have experience with AIM54 for 20 yrs....

 

[Mr Iran Eye]

Always the fantasy of some here who think that Iran should remove the F-7, F-4, F-5 but they are tiring with their stupid fantasy. Logistics are not a problem and IRIAF has not put so much money into upgrading their old planes and retiring them afterwards. They will be complementary and useful until the day they are destroyed.

The hardest, longest and most expensive part is building new parts, replicating new parts, but when it's done, it becomes easier and cheaper to produce. I said here on this forum that the IRIAF is thinking of the 5th generation but they are already aiming in their research for the 6th generation of combat aircraft. The Kowsar is perfect for doing fast and efficient research and development. With the arrival of Russian fighter planes, everything will go very quickly

Let's wait for the continuation because it was said that the Kowsar would have a new special radar.

 

[mack8]

Oh good, I'm glad because I was starting to feel left out and lonely.

I remember going way back on Forces DZ forum but your French was much better than mine. I was butchering my way through that place lolol.



I think Sisi would've ignored the Israelis TBH. They're not much of a concern unless they get to the supplier and take their usual temper tantrum and the supplier caves into their crying.



They tried with Germany to block the IRIS-T-SLM SAMs and got the middle finger. They also took a fit at the 4 Type 209 submarines the EN bought but it was too late, the Germans gave them the finger on that too. They also had the nerve to try and block the Rafale deal by pulling off the above but were only able to stop the Meteor as part of the weapons package, but not the SCALP. But according to the contract for the next 30 Rafales F4s being delivered starting in 2024, the Meteor supposedly is included in this deal.

With all their bravado and bragging tech, they sure are a bunch of scaredy-cats wussies the way they sneak around and cry & bitch like that.

The US is a different story. It has way too much power to make life unbearable and they tried with the SCALPs, but the French didn't succumb to that pressure.

But when it came to the Su-35s and RUSSIA OMG RUSSIA, they most likely threatened not only economic sanctions, but military ones for certain and the Egyptian military has too much US-made systems that it would be like getting neutered. There's only so much working of both sides that can be done.


That's what I said. But the current economy is on shaky grounds despite tremendous growth in the past decade. It's a global thing, really. And there has to be a way to acquire those platforms (especially tapping into the next generation systems) that keeps all sides happy and doesn't draw the ire of the US. Might have to look at the Korean or other 5th gens.

I'll tell you, I actually really hope that Iran gets these birds of prey because then the Israelis and the US will be kicking themselves in the head since those platforms are actually much less detrimental to the entitled Karens next door if they're in Egypt's possession because of the peace treaty and the much lesser chance of using them against the Jews. In Iran...haha, they make an attack on its nukes a lot riskier and damaging to the belligerents than they would've been in Egypt. Talk about shooting yourself in the foot!

But then again, Iranian fellas will have to deal with the insufferable Russian bashing of its systems and platforms that permeates on sites like this one. Steadfast, fellas.

To think of how close those things were to be delivered to the EAF, these two aircraft were probably on their way as they already had the Egyptian flag insignia on the tails with wash paint camo color covering it for the trip.

View attachment 951391

View attachment 951396

View attachment 951394

View attachment 951393

The anticipation is a killer. Hopefully Iran gets them very soon.
This would be a great camo for Iranians.

View attachment 951397

I used to spend time on FDZ ages ago, though my french was too bad to keep using.

Thanks for the rundown of Egypt's situation, of course they put your country in a very difficult situation and i guess it's understandable the decision that has been forced on you, though appeasing blackmailers and rogue regimes such as the US is not a good thing, next time they will want even more from you.

Re the Su-35 in iranian hands and the US/israelis shooting themselves in the foot, that's one of the reasons i want to see IRIAF Su-35 so badly. If that will be confirmed then we can laugh at the yanks and israelis for being absolute suckers and losers whenever we see an IRIAF Su-35.

And man the Su-35 in EAF cammo looks absolutely gorgeous.

 

[mack8]

You can not be more wrong. Fakour-90 is an absolute monster that is in service as a Long-range BVR missile with ECM. No regional country has anything local in comparison.

View attachment 951586

It can make a mess of enemy fighters even before they enter Iranian airspace.

I always appreciate your technical insight, though we shouldn't overhype the Fakkour into something that it's not. For one the range is nothing special nowadays, 150 km is pretty much matched by the AIM-120D and Meteor among others, and in fact imo is a bit underwhelming (and a tad less than the AIM-54?), you'd think with modern electronics and rocket motors you'd easily get 200 plus km out of it. Also it's a big and not highly maneuverable missile, so perhaps not as good at killing other fighters as other designs.

Of course any oponent using older missiles such as AIM-120C would be in serious trouble when facing the Fakkour. But again, to really count for something, all the IRIAF F-14 fleet must be upgraded to the AM standard and able to fire the Fakkour.

Regardless of the above, Fakkour is a very important development and advance for IRIAF despite whatever limitations it might have, much better to have it than not.

On the other hand the R-37M looks to be a real killer in Ukraine, imo i think mainly because of it's very long range (as far as 300 km as i see written, so it's launched well outside the opponents range and forces him defensive) and high speed so perhaps the Maghsound with 200km range and ARH seeker will be a significant improvement for IRIAF over the Fakkour.