IRIAF | News and Discussions

[Hack-Hook]

No, all it demonstrates is that you will change the subject when at disadvantage in a debate, using rhetoric fallacies like the above. This behaviour bears the hallmarks of an agenda-driven propagandist structurally incapable of acknowledging the falsehood of their statements even in the face of hard facts and concrete proof.

To recap: you literally filled this thread with countless posts claiming explicitly Iran did not order any military aircraft from Russia, and that if she did, Russia will not deliver. You are even on the record for pretending you "really hoped" Russia would supply fighters to Iran, but that your hope was dashed by Moscow's unwillingness to sell. Now that it's been established Russia effectively did as much, you're switching to a wholly different narrative about how this will supposedly affect Iran's domestic aircraft development in a negative way.

An honest person would first admit to their mistaken predictions, and then only would they go on to rant about impact on domestic industries. Although in your case, you wouldn't even be entitled to this since you clearly suggested you had "hoped" Russia would sell Iran fighter jets. So the expected honest reaction to the recent news would consist in expressions of joy.

Yes, you had previously made the assertion that Iran would stop producing Kosars if the Su-35 were to be imported. I never denied it. But this still means you were wrong on at least two to three other counts. Is it this hard to recognize said fact? You could simply say, "okay, my bad when it comes to Russia selling and supplying jets to Iran, nonetheless I think it's no good idea for this and that reason", much like I didn't hesitate one second to admit my memory didn't serve me well regarding the ideal numbers of Flankers provided by user PeeD. If you did this, I wouldn't have anything to complain about. But because you don't, I feel you're insulting my intelligence, especially since it was you quoting me first.

show you actually never read my posts when you were discuss it with me and only post wall of text

 

[SalarHaqq]

show you actually never read my posts when you were discuss it with me and only post wall of text

I have numerous posts of yours on this thread in my bookmarks, just in case you went into denial mode. So you bet I read them. Also I adequately responded to anything you put to me. You however are still refusing to acknowledge where you were mistaken. This is all that matters, and it says a lot about your antics.

 

[Hack-Hook]

I have numerous posts of yours on this thread in my bookmarks, just in case you went into denial mode. So you bet I read them. Also I adequately responded to anything you put to me. You however are still refusing to acknowledge where you were mistaken. This is all that matters, and it says a lot about your antics.

if you read them you knew i was against it because
1- the airplane and the philosophy behind it is obsolete
2-it will result in choking our aviation industry
3- in numbers they were going to acquire it it make no change

 

[SalarHaqq]

if you read them you knew i was against it because
1- the airplane and the philosophy behind it is obsolete
2-it will result in choking our aviation industry
3- in numbers they were going to acquire it it make no change

And that's exactly where the problem lies: you insist on changing the subject, ignoring the thread of the discussion.

This is how it unfolded (I paraphrase):

---

Me: Fantastic news, Iran took delivery of Yak-130 trainers. I'm a particularly happy man today.

You: These are just unconfirmed reports, nothing more.

Me, after definitive confirmation came along: Well, as a matter of fact your doubts proved to be baseless. How about acknowledging their blatant falsehood?

You, inconsiderately and brazenly strawmanning: It'll be a repeat of the Avro Arrow saga, it'll kill Iran's domestic projects (ed.: read, only bad things can possibly come out of Russia).

Me: Hold on, hold on, that wasn't my point dingbat, my point was strictly confined to highlighting how you were wrong in hastily dismissing this particular report you quoted my reaction to. And now you're refusing to recognize your goof, which definitely isn't conforming to any notion of ethics. Have some shame, will you?

You, neurotically jumping up and down: Muuuuh, Avro Arrow, muuuuh.

Me: First you shall man up, demonstrate you can actually be an honest person if you try hard for a change, and admit your initial skepticism regarding Russian supply of the Yak-130 was genuinely unfounded. Where there's a will, there's a way - even for you, as unbelievable as it may sound.

You: You have an agenda / have no knowledge on military aviation / aren't Iranian, muuuuh, I always meant Avro Arrow!

Me: Do not distract from the matter at hand, slimeball. Address your incorrect assessment, have some integrity during your forum activity just for once, then we'll talk alright.

You: You don't read my posts (ed.: What the...!).

Me: Oh, sure do. I have them bookmarked even, just in case. However you're still trying to weasel your way out of a long due mea culpa, which is rather pitiful an attitude to put on display.

---

You understand? Or do I really need to dumb it down some more?

See, I'm quite proficient at exposing and then educating snotty folk so trust me, those pathetic two bit antics won't lead anywhere.

 

[Messerschmitt]

It will be the most modern aircraft in IRIAF arsenal for a while, it's hard to imagine it being used strictly for training lol.

My guess is that we'll see it launching ATGMs and ALCMs in no time. But it doesn't need an afterburner for that either.

I came here expecting a discussion on how to integrate iranian weapons on a Russian platform, instead we're discussing kinematic performance why?

The IRIAF has already integrated Iranian weapons on its Su-24s before and the IRGC-ASF on its Su-22s. I expect the same to happen with the new Yak-130s and future Su-30/35s, the latter two being especially interesting platforms for Iranian weapons. AAM development could finally see more focus, particularly modern BVRAAMs. Here, Iran could use its experience in SAM development. As recently announced, ramjets have also been successfully developed in Iran. Regarding ASMs, there is a wide range of PGMs and CMs available including Asef ALCM (1500 km) which the IRIAF already operates for its Su-24s. Air-launched applications of Iran's newly announced supersonic CM and its longer-range cousin are possible or ALBM variants of Zoheir (~1500 km) and Ababil-OP (~250 km). The latter might also be suited for unmanned Qahers in anti-ship roles due to the missile's small size and light weight. If the rumoured Su-35 order also comes with Su-30s, the Su-35s should be reserved mainly as interceptors while the Su-30s could perform both air-to-air and strike/anti-ship missions.

 

[Deino]

Nonsense.

Afterburners are nothing special as those are not critical to functioning of jet engines.

But still you cannot fit them on the Yak-130. So why should Russia an afterburner when it cannot use it on its own … and surely not for Iran!?

 

[aryobarzan]

if you read them you knew i was against it because
1- the airplane and the philosophy behind it is obsolete
2-it will result in choking our aviation industry
3- in numbers they were going to acquire it it make no change

Doc ... your concerns are very valid....do not pay attention to salarhaq he is doing his job of spinning everything IRI does. Remember IRI made fun of Shah for buying American F14s ..well they are doing the same they just changed the source of the weapon.

Any way..myself I am not against buying modern aircraft if and only if we get TOT or local production...a simple "BUY" without Tech transfer is what our neighbours down south do.. We Iranians after 43 years should do better than just signing the cheques.

your main concern and mine and many others here is the effect on Iran's young aviation industry....very valid concern..Canadian "Avro arrow" is a good example how Americans killed Canadian aviation industry by offering them their aircraft (salarhaq better read about it) ..this is a concern but we can only hope IRI has more brains and will not do to our aviation industry what they did to our space industry again. Future will tell since Iranian air force officials are gone MUTE on this whole affair..only salarhaq jumps up and down ..


What is grand plan of IRI for our airforce and for our Aviation industry no one knows and as I said no one is talking.

PS: did Russians give us Indian bound planes with that colour scheme..or is that a brain fart of an IRI genius!!.

 

[tsunset]

After his obsession with Iran and uranium surrendering to the USA, now the Canadian from the Alcoholic Anonymous now is obsessed by the AvRo cF-1o5 cAnAdA loOk sAmE tHinG

This nagger was saying Russia would never deliver anything, then when it delivers only two trainer fighters, he now goes into his fantasy self-made history that "Russia is going to kill Iranian aviation by offering us aircrafts look at the AvRo aRRoW fRoM CaNaDa"!

And now he goes to imply that the Yak were for India and that Iran got planes that were made for India, contradicting himself in his own narrative, he thinks Russia will deliver nothing but he also believe that Russia is going to take on Iran aviation industry, both at the same time! Aragh Sagi in the left hand, joint in the right hand behind his mobile phone!

 

[Hack-Hook]

Me: Fantastic news, Iran took delivery of Yak-130 trainers. I'm a particularly happy man today.

You: These are just unconfirmed reports, nothing more.

me this is notr fantastic news.
the fantastic news is they inject enough money into kowsar and Yasin

Me, after definitive confirmation came along: Well, as a matter of fact your doubts proved to be baseless. How about acknowledging their blatant falsehood?

as i said Avro arrow CF-105 go and read what is it and it clear everything
in short you are spinning lies about me again or you are not versed enough in Persian language to understand the intricacy of how Iranian talk. an Iranian would have understood by posting those 3 word I acknowledged they were shipping them and at the same time expressed my concerns about they have gone these paths , but what i can say it seems grasping that aspects of Persian language and literature take a life time.
another example of translating پاک کردن اسراییل از صفحات تاریخ Into wiping out Israel from map

Me: First you shall man up, demonstrate you can actually be an honest person if you try hard for a change, and admit your initial skepticism regarding Russian supply of the Yak-130 was genuinely unfounded. Where there's a will, there's a way - even for you, as unbelievable as it may sound.

as i said you don't understand how we talk
you may have a grasp of text book Persian language but on how we apply it into everyday conversation .......

You: You have an agenda / have no knowledge on military aviation / aren't Iranian, muuuuh, I always meant Avro Arrow!

as i said i the and still insist the airplane have outdated Radar that can be jammed with modern radars let just say not so modern anything from 90s onward , its FLIR is an outdated system that our products surpass it . its data-link is propriety and cant communicate with any other of our system .
and the philosophy behind it is so 70s and 80s
and yes i'm not having knowledge of military aviation as I don't loose my mind when i see glitter.

a question for you about the philosophy of these airplanes what did India Su-30MKI managed to do against smaller Pakistani F-16 and JF-17s .

Me: Oh, sure do. I have them bookmarked even, just in case. However you're still trying to weasel your way out of a long due mea culpa, which is rather pitiful an attitude to put on display.

as i said you didn't read them otherwise you hove understood my stand on these matter is the most consistent , we must build our airplanes our-self not import it from abroad we must learn from F-14 incident and asupport we recieved on Mig-29 and F-7s

 

[SalarHaqq]

me this is notr fantastic news.
the fantastic news is they inject enough money into kowsar and Yasin

as i said Avro arrow CF-105 go and read what is it and it clear everything
in short you are spinning lies about me again or you are not versed enough in Persian language to understand the intricacy of how Iranian talk. an Iranian would have understood by posting those 3 word I acknowledged they were shipping them and at the same time expressed my concerns about they have gone these paths , but what i can say it seems grasping that aspects of Persian language and literature take a life time.
another example of translating پاک کردن اسراییل از صفحات تاریخ Into wiping out Israel from map


as i said you don't understand how we talk
you may have a grasp of text book Persian language but on how we apply it into everyday conversation .......

as i said i the and still insist the airplane have outdated Radar that can be jammed with modern radars let just say not so modern anything from 90s onward , its FLIR is an outdated system that our products surpass it . its data-link is propriety and cant communicate with any other of our system .
and the philosophy behind it is so 70s and 80s
and yes i'm not having knowledge of military aviation as I don't loose my mind when i see glitter.

a question for you about the philosophy of these airplanes what did India Su-30MKI managed to do against smaller Pakistani F-16 and JF-17s .


as i said you didn't read them otherwise you hove understood my stand on these matter is the most consistent , we must build our airplanes our-self not import it from abroad we must learn from F-14 incident and asupport we recieved on Mig-29 and F-7s

To repeat, when addressing someone in a discussion forum, you are expected to stick to the thread of a discussion, no matter what the topic is. Do not go on a never ending tangent, as I will not entertain this type of intellectual dishonesty and rhetoric fallacy.

Let's reiterate once again how it unfolded: you quoted me with an attempt to cast doubt on the accuracy of the news regarding Russian Yak-130 deliveries to Iran. To which I responded, after indisputable confirmation of the news, that you had been wrong and that I believe you owe a mea culpa to readers in light of many previous assertions you had made to the same effect.

So either you will acknowledge your mistake, or you can give it a rest. If you keep spamming with red herrings and strawmen, it will only go to expose what sort of a person you are, but will also constitute trolling behaviour which might potentially be considered as a violation of rules.

 

[Hack-Hook]

Let's reiterate once again how it unfolded: you quoted me with an attempt to cast doubt on the accuracy of the news regarding Russian Yak-130 deliveries to Iran. To which I responded, after indisputable confirmation of the news, that you had been wrong and that I believe you owe a mea culpa to readers in light of many previous assertions you had made to the same effect.

and i say another Avro aroow CF-105 that clearly answered your question if yo were looked up the history of the airplane
you didn't knew it and didn't care to look it up so you mistakenly assumed i went off topic while to every one who knew about the airplane my meaning was clear and they instantly understood its not off topic so again as aryobarzan advised you i also suggest you go and look up the airplane and see what its about.

and for the record go back in answer to this post of tsunset https://defence.pk/threads/iriaf-news-and-discussions.358559/post-14500377
that you incidentally liked i said
"There always are sellouts
Go read about Canada aviation industry and avro cf-105 airplane"

way before you make a sensible post as the only post you directed at me before that answer to tsunset was this very informative post of you

IRIAF | News and Discussions

Colours of other yak-130 in the world (syria and vietnam not delivered at that time):

defence.pk

which i didn't consider worth of an answer as it was more fitting for a 7-9 year olds and i already have answered to tsunset by saying these words "avro cf-105 airplane" go and read how USA killed Canada aviation industry and you also can go and read about Grippen to see how they only were 2 vote short of killing Sweden aviation industry also.

 

[SalarHaqq]

and i say another Avro aroow CF-105 that clearly answered your question if yo were looked up the history of the airplane
you didn't knew it and didn't care to look it up so you mistakenly assumed i went off topic while to every one who knew about the airplane my meaning was clear and they instantly understood its not off topic so again as aryobarzan advised you i also suggest you go and look up the airplane and see what its about.

I've been knowing what the Avro Arrow is for so long I don't remember when it was I first read about it, definitely over twenty or thirty years back.

However no, throwing that in did not answer my post in the least. It was a classic distraction. My remark was strictly focused on your wrong assumption that Russian would not deliver Yak-130 trainers to Iran and that the corresponding news hadn't been credible. <----- Only this right there. Nothing else, and nothing more.

That you believe Iranian military aviation projects will end up as that Canadian one due to Iran's recent acquisitions from Russia, has absolutely nothing to do with the fact that you had been mistaken countless times in your oft repeated assumption that Moscow will not supply anything to Iran.

I don't care about discussing any other aspects for now, since this is what the discussion started out as, and there's still some unfinished business to take care of in this regard. Are you getting it now, ya bazam mikhai khodto bezani be kuche ali chap?

 

[Hack-Hook]

However no, throwing that in did not answer my post in the least. It was a classic distraction. My remark was strictly focused on your wrong assumption that Russian would not deliver Yak-130 trainers to Iran and that the corresponding news hadn't been credible. <----- Only this right there. Nothing else, and nothing more.

and that answer clearly stated they did at least for yak-130 and warned on what it meant for Iran . you opted not two understand the post and waste 3 page of the thread by continuing that line
and the only thing i say about the yak-130 in the forum till that tweet showed up was here you are at it again and was not talking about Yak-130 but Su-35 which again you opted that not understand

That you believe Iranian military aviation projects will end up as that Canadian one due to Iran's recent acquisitions from Russia, has absolutely nothing to do with the fact that you had been mistaken countless times in your oft repeated assumption that Moscow will not supply anything to Iran.

go read the post you book marked from me and you see i said they supply after we built something in the class or near building it not when we need it and yes to me its like what USA did with its closest ally Canada or tried to do with Sweden

 

[SalarHaqq]

and that answer clearly stated they did at least for yak-130 and warned on what it meant for Iran . you opted not two understand the post and waste 3 page of the thread by continuing that line

No genius, of course you implicitly acknowledged the induction of those trainers by Iran, but what I meant and still mean to say is not that you should merely recognize their arrival in Iran, it's that you should first explicitly accept in concrete words that you had been wrong, before introducing any analogies with defunct Canadian fighter projects. As in, "okay, I was wrong on that, the news was true after all", for instance.

and the only thing i say about the yak-130 in the forum till that tweet showed up was here you are at it again and was not talking about Yak-130 but Su-35 which again you opted that not understand

I'm not sure it'd make this much sense for Iran to purchase Yak -130 trainers but no Su-35 fighters, but alright, should some examples of the latter surface in Iran as well then you will have to acknowledge having been repeatedly mistaken in the past.

go read the post you book marked from me and you see i said they supply after we built something in the class or near building it not when we need it and yes to me its like what USA did with its closest ally Canada or tried to do with Sweden

You may have said that once, but a contrario there are plenty statements you made in which you plainly claimed Russian won't / can't deliver any jets, period.

For example:

 

[yugocrosrb95]

But still you cannot fit them on the Yak-130. So why should Russia an afterburner when it cannot use it on its own … and surely not for Iran!?

But you go again with nonsense. Your intelligence is questionable at best.

Variant with afterburner can be developed and be ready if whenever there is project it could be used for.

For example modernization of Kowsar by having new version of it.