IRIAF | News and Discussions

[shadihassan28]

The word mass production by Iran’s Air Force should be taken with a grain of salt.

Let’s see if this ever gets built in any significant numbers.

In my head when it comes to Iranian aircraft they usually top out production at first models at a dozen, but if they can convert it to a LAC role which they said they already doing I can see 24 which can be used to attack Kurdish terrorists/insurgents. Just my thought on the topic but I’ve always said I like the yasin, but I also liked the Zolifghar tank but that disappeared, shahed attack helicopter which looked ugly as heck but if they invested into could have been something worthwhile by now.

 

[OldTwilight]

The word mass production by Iran’s Air Force should be taken with a grain of salt.

Let’s see if this ever gets built in any significant numbers.

for trainer , 14-20 is enough ...

 

[SalarHaqq]

for trainer , 14-20 is enough ...

The Spanish air force has 41 C-101 and 19 F-5 trainers for 152 fighter jets (84 F/A-18 and 68 Eurofighters with 20 more on order). IRIAF is a larger force. But probably air forces function differently in this regard, thus different proportions of trainers to fighters. Surely many factors involved.

 

[yugocrosrb95]

View attachment 919855

Proving my point.

however, the prototype that did the taxi test had already undergone some modifications, it is twin-engine and the dimensions have changed
View attachment 919854

If Iran manages to develop FJ44-4 class turbofan them for same thrust one third of fuel would be consumed.

F-5E has 2 ton fuel load, Qaher with FJ44 turbofans could for same range need only 0.7t of jet fuel.

1.3t of margin for airframe and internal weapons bay, 300kg for airframe and 1000kg for payload.

 

[OldTwilight]

The Spanish air force has 41 C-101 and 19 F-5 trainers for 152 fighter jets (84 F/A-18 and 68 Eurofighters with 20 more on order). IRIAF is a larger force. But probably air forces function differently in this regard, thus different proportions of trainers to fighters. Surely many factors involved.

nope, 24 is enough , if turbofan version of owj get ready , then we should create something in line with JF-17 and then build some variant as trainer and close air support fighters ...

Yasin is sub-sonic , its good as experience with serial production of homegrown design but the spec is too low to spend so much money on it ...

it can fill some gap in our need , but we shouldn't spend so much on it because its domestic ...

 

[SalarHaqq]

nope, 24 is enough , if turbofan version of owj get ready , then we should create something in line with JF-17 and then build some variant as trainer and close air support fighters ...

Yasin is sub-sonic , its good as experience with serial production of homegrown design but the spec is too low to spend so much money on it ...

it can fill some gap in our need , but we shouldn't spend so much on it because its domestic ...

I would like to know why other air forces employ larger numbers of trainers in the same class as Yasin for fewer numbers of fighter jets.

 

[yugocrosrb95]

nope, 24 is enough , if turbofan version of owj get ready , then we should create something in line with JF-17 and then build some variant as trainer and close air support fighters ...

Yasin is sub-sonic , its good as experience with serial production of homegrown design but the spec is too low to spend so much money on it ...

it can fill some gap in our need , but we shouldn't spend so much on it because its domestic ...

By replacing J85-GE-21 turbojet with FJ44-4 class turbofan, range of Yasin could be increased three fold.

 

[Flotilla]

The Spanish air force has 41 C-101 and 19 F-5 trainers for 152 fighter jets (84 F/A-18 and 68 Eurofighters with 20 more on order). IRIAF is a larger force. But probably air forces function differently in this regard, thus different proportions of trainers to fighters. Surely many factors involved.

This has changed very recently. Spanish Air Force have retired all C101 aircraft and basic trainer chilean origin T35C Pillán... for a total of 40 PC21 (Pilatus). In a near future SAF will buy some 18 or 24 probably M346 from Leonardo. SAF plans are easy, basic/advance training in PC21 and advanced in HEAT M346... and lot of simulation. This is the key for a medium fleet of training aircraft, simulation.

And IRIAF could do the same. Basic training in a turboprop like Emb 312 (maybe some new units are required), refurbish them with MFD (like Kowsar) and after advaced trainer with Yasin/Kowsar 88, and then a OCU (Operative Conversion Unit) for jumping at Su35 or Mig29... with a lot of simulation too. IRIAF have demonstrated capability of designing and operating advance simulators systems. With 60 or 70 basic/advanced trainers IRIAF can focus on rebuild their combat fleet not only with Su35...

 

[sahureka2]

The missions of the Yasin can be much more than simple training, the Minister also indicated the CAS , and the Argentines with the MB-339 have shown that they can carry out operations at sea and also attacks against naval units of the GB in (Falklands / Malvinas) and they did it only with 30mm cannons and ZUNI rocket , having no anti-ship missiles available suitable for this aircraft,

while Iran has several types of anti-ship missiles in its arsenal, some of which may be suitable to mate with Yasin's pylons.

Just out of personal curiosity I played with the images, including a Yasin single-seater

PS
When the YASIN is mass - produced , it could also be of interest to some friendly countries , such as Syria and at least one country in the Far East could also be interested in making it under license

 

[shadihassan28]

The missions of the Yasin can be much more than simple training, the Minister also indicated the CAS , and the Argentines with the MB-339 have shown that they can carry out operations at sea and also attacks against naval units of the GB in (Falklands / Malvinas) and they did it only with 30mm cannons and ZUNI rocket , having no anti-ship missiles available suitable for this aircraft,
View attachment 919943

while Iran has several types of anti-ship missiles in its arsenal, some of which may be suitable to mate with Yasin's pylons.

Just out of personal curiosity I played with the images, including a Yasin single-seater
View attachment 919942
PS
When the YASIN is mass - produced , it could also be of interest to some friendly countries , such as Syria and at least one country in the Far East could also be interested in making it under license

I would say Syria Iraq and definitely a few African nations I’m assuming yasin is low cost and easy to use.

 

[aryobarzan]

The missions of the Yasin can be much more than simple training, the Minister also indicated the CAS , and the Argentines with the MB-339 have shown that they can carry out operations at sea and also attacks against naval units of the GB in (Falklands / Malvinas) and they did it only with 30mm cannons and ZUNI rocket , having no anti-ship missiles available suitable for this aircraft,
View attachment 919943

while Iran has several types of anti-ship missiles in its arsenal, some of which may be suitable to mate with Yasin's pylons.

Just out of personal curiosity I played with the images, including a Yasin single-seater
View attachment 919942
PS
When the YASIN is mass - produced , it could also be of interest to some friendly countries , such as Syria and at least one country in the Far East could also be interested in making it under license

Armed Yasin is definitely in official plans..I was reading some details of Yasin# 2..by the chief designer..he mentioned #2 has 'wet wings" and cockpit is full glass cockpit...but interesting you never see a photo of Yasin cockpit...looking forward to see it...have you seen any photo of it..

 

[sahureka2]

At the attached address, Tasnim News has made a video entitled :
From the design process to the production of Yasin training jet
https://www.aparat.com/v/4HQ7X/گزارشی_از_روند_طراحی_و_خط_تولید_نمونه_جدید_جت

 

[SalarHaqq]

This has changed very recently. Spanish Air Force have retired all C101 aircraft and basic trainer chilean origin T35C Pillán... for a total of 40 PC21 (Pilatus). In a near future SAF will buy some 18 or 24 probably M346 from Leonardo. SAF plans are easy, basic/advance training in PC21 and advanced in HEAT M346... and lot of simulation. This is the key for a medium fleet of training aircraft, simulation.

And IRIAF could do the same. Basic training in a turboprop like Emb 312 (maybe some new units are required), refurbish them with MFD (like Kowsar) and after advaced trainer with Yasin/Kowsar 88, and then a OCU (Operative Conversion Unit) for jumping at Su35 or Mig29... with a lot of simulation too. IRIAF have demonstrated capability of designing and operating advance simulators systems. With 60 or 70 basic/advanced trainers IRIAF can focus on rebuild their combat fleet not only with Su35...

Thanks for the explanations. What about the Spanish air force's F-5 trainers, they too I suppose will be retired?

Concerning Iran, the Embraer EMB-312's belong to the IRGCAF not to the IRIAF. Publicly available data on the internet if I'm not mistaken puts the size of the fleet at 15 or 25 units.

IRIAF for its part is operating around 40 Pilatus PC-7 for basic training, in addition to a number of Socata TB-21 and TB-200 side by side trainers. Plus some light turboprop aircraft such as the Fajr F-3, a domestic design featuring composite airframe. Another domestic project first unveiled at the 2002 Kish Airshow is the larger, all composite Tazarve trainer by Owj Industrial Complex, a further development of earlier prototypes named Tondar and Dorna. This however has possibly been shelved and seems unlikely to enter serial production.

Not to mention the F-5B Simorgh and Mig-28UB type-specific trainers.

So there are quite a few training aircraft in the inventories of the IRIAF and IRGCAF. How this will be restructured in future, which types will be kept, which ones produced and in what quantities is yet to be seen.

 

[yugocrosrb95]

Yasin on surface seems like a great jet trainer with potential for close air support, but there is glaring flaw with it and that being turbojet engines it has.
J85-GE-21 that Owj is derived from is really fuel inefficient with ratio of 1.24 per generated thrust when two of Owj would be outdone by RD-9 turbojet.

For now compare J85-GE-21 and RD-9.

RD-9 vs J85 x2 weight
725 ÷ 610 = 1.17

J85 vs RD-9 SFC
Dry 1.24 ÷ 0.96 = 1.29 Wet 2.13 ÷ 1.60 = 1.33

J85-GE-21 x2 vs RD-9 Thrust kN
Dry 32 ÷ 29 = 1.10
Wet 44÷ 37 = 1.19

RD-9 vs J85 size mm
Width 668 ÷ 530 = 1.26
Length 5560 ÷ 2860 = 1.94

J85x2 vs RD-9 width mm
1060 ÷ 668 = 1.59

Not sure if people suggesting Yasin to Syria when its far more fuel inefficient then L-39 as a jet trainer for the air force by consuming 3 times as much jet fuel per hour.
Only way Yasin can get even if Iran develops FJ44-4M equivalent turbofan engine to get comparable fuel consumption per hour to provide more for given SFC.
Fuel isnt cheap. in long term it eats away at any savings, Chinese trainer jets derived from F-7 such as FTC-2000/JL-9 provide more for same hourly fuel usage.

 

[sahureka2]

Yasin on surface seems like a great jet trainer with potential for close air support, but there is glaring flaw with it and that being turbojet engines it has.
J85-GE-21 that Owj is derived from is really fuel inefficient with ratio of 1.24 per generated thrust when two of Owj would be outdone by RD-9 turbojet.

For now compare J85-GE-21 and RD-9.

RD-9 vs J85 x2 weight
725 ÷ 610 = 1.17

J85 vs RD-9 SFC
Dry 1.24 ÷ 0.96 = 1.29 Wet 2.13 ÷ 1.60 = 1.33

J85-GE-21 x2 vs RD-9 Thrust kN
Dry 32 ÷ 29 = 1.10
Wet 44÷ 37 = 1.19

RD-9 vs J85 size mm
Width 668 ÷ 530 = 1.26
Length 5560 ÷ 2860 = 1.94

J85x2 vs RD-9 width mm
1060 ÷ 668 = 1.59

Not sure if people suggesting Yasin to Syria when its far more fuel inefficient then L-39 as a jet trainer for the air force by consuming 3 times as much jet fuel per hour.
Only way Yasin can get even if Iran develops FJ44-4M equivalent turbofan engine to get comparable fuel consumption per hour to provide more for given SFC.
Fuel isnt cheap. in long term it eats away at any savings, Chinese trainer jets derived from F-7 such as FTC-2000/JL-9 provide more for same hourly fuel usage.

your considerations are excellent, but if you have to wait for an engine that isn't yet available, yesterday they wouldn't have presented the almost definitive Yasin but it was still on the designers' table.
OWJ is derived from the J85-GE-21, a very well known, tested, reliable and important engine that you have available today.
L-39 very good aircraft and the Syrians also use L-39ZA with good CAS characteristics, four pylons for a total payload of +/-1,300 kg and above all provision for a 23 mm GSh-23L double-barreled cannon fixed in a compliant capsule under the pilots compartment, but even these L-39s are not eternal and after an intense use in 12 years of war, Damascus will soon have to think about a replacement.