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[applesauce]

Not going to address the rest of your immature childish comments, but I will address this part.

The only one saying SU-35 is inferior to J-10C was.....A Chinese report...something countries claim routinely. iran also claims that Bavar-373 is on par with S-400, but let’s be real.

Again no proof of Iran or Chinese claims. That was my point. Actually at least Iran’s military systems (UAVs, Air defense systems, BMs) have been tested against western armies. China high tech arms have rarely been tested. So everything is conjecture.

It’s Predator like UAV (Loong? Forgot the name) is routinely getting shot down in Yemen by Iran’s 351 insurgency Ground to Air missile.

As for the SU-35 that China has, I told you up till 2017 it didn’t even IRIS-E. China’s SU-35 was outdated export version, russia offered to upgrade them. So again how can you say IRIS-E is inferior just based on PESA vs AESA when at least till several years ago, it wasn’t in Chinese SU-35’s?

you comparisons are ridiculous.

iran does not have the s-400, and does not have the industries nor the wealth for such a system that russia has. so of course their claims cant be trusted.

all indicators show iran likely does not have a comparable product to the s-400 at least not any time soon.


this contrasts with china, where china physically has both systems in question and can fly them against each other all day long, china is also richer than russia(and increasingly so) for nearly 30 years now, and china has a complete aerospace sector, which has already produced the j-20, multiple generations of fighter aesa radars, better missiles than what russia fields, various flanker variants. it is a proven industry and the j-10 itself is hardly the most challenging jet for the current chinese aerospace sector nor would the su-35 be consider the best jet in china even if the j10 and all the other flanker variants disappeared.


likewise, an iranian claim that their tier-2 air defence system is better than the s-400 would be far more credible if iran already has a s-500 or better equivalent, owns the s-400 to be able to directly test them and is 10 times richer than russia


and for all your talk of chinese jets being untested. what actual threat has the f-22 been "tested" against?? did it dogfight su-57s or any other jet?? all it has done is peacefully escort some russian bombers and bombed some desert guys in a $10 tent, but this supposedly proves it against a near peer?
so by your logic, the f-22's superiority is all just conjecture, the f-35 for that matter too. heck we might as well say the us nuclear triad is just all conjecture. it's never been launched against any enemies, it probably doesn't even work in a real nuclear war by your logic.

and yes, UAVs get shot down all the time. what about it? china does not claim the Wing Loong is some miracle in the sky. its a slow, cheap, easy to fly UAV that can be targeted, it definitely isnt stealth. US UAVs get shot down all the time too, like the reaper drones in the same yemen battlefield, heck iran got its hands on a intact RQ170, must mean us drones, even the advanced stealth ones are trash right?

and what do you mean china's su-35 dont have the irbis-E? it's the default radar on the su-35 since 2007. and listed as the export radar on the su-35 by tikhomirov (the maker), you literally cant get anything other than Ibris-E if you buy a su-35 (well i guess if you paid them extra you could get something different).

what russia(and tikhomirov) offered was to upgrade china's older su-30MKK and su-30 MK2 with the Ibris-E. so you're wrong on yet another point.

 

[Hack-Hook]

they can but the su-57 project itself is moving at a snail's pace. hardly a stunning example of engineering greatness. heck everyone expected russia to field a hundred of these before the j-20 is in full production, yet there are probably about 100 j-20s now and all of like 3? or 4? production su-57. again this comes back to having no money and unless you want to try and say the russian are somehow just plain better engineers or just smarter than everyone else(some crazy race theory), no money means you will decline especially if you are trying to keep pace with the world's best across the board and not just specializing in certain areas.

And thats really it. the russians are as good as anyone, they just have no money.

well Russia chronic problem is lack of funds. but if you buy the airplane i guess it wont matter much , the buyer will pay the money and i think since 2005 Russia had Zuk MA/MAE which is AESA

 

[Hack-Hook]

likewise, an iranian claim that their tier-2 air defence system is better than the s-400 would be far more credible if iran already has a s-500 or better equivalent, owns the s-400 to be able to directly test them and is 10 times richer than russia

we didn't said better than S-400 we said better than S-300 and then we said the next generation Bavar would be better than S-400 we didn't said better than S-500
is it hard to believe we already shown or 3rd of Khordad is way better than Buck M2

 

[TheImmortal]

and what do you mean china's su-35 dont have the irbis-E? it's the default radar on the su-35 since 2007. and listed as the export radar on the su-35 by tikhomirov (the maker), you literally cant get anything other than Ibris-E if you buy a su-35 (well i guess if you paid them extra you could get something different).

what russia(and tikhomirov) offered was to upgrade china's older su-30MKK and su-30 MK2 with the Ibris-E. so you're wrong on yet another point.

Defense World

View News at Defense World

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I’m convinced you are just another fanboy with zero military knowledge. Thanks for proving me right though by acting like a know it all.

 

[WudangMaster]

 

[applesauce]

Defense World

View News at Defense World

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I’m convinced you are just another fanboy with zero military knowledge. Thanks for proving me right though by acting like a know it all.

and im convinced you can barely even read.
even from your own source, which literally says exactly what i said, that the chinese su-35 is using the irbis-E.

"Su-35 Jets To Get New Irbis-E Radar Control Systems"​

"These fighters will receive newest Irbis-E systems"​

Hell the title of your article is literally "Chinese Su-35 Jets To Get New Irbis_E" what word in that title or the actual article suggests that chinese doesn't have the Ibris-E in its SU-35s??? its not like china got some jets on hand, then russia offered to upgrade those jets that china already has.

Wait.....

you probably can't read a calendar, i should have known. that's why you think they are offering to upgrade.

the first 4 su-35 china received was in december 2016, about a month after your source says Russia WILL install the Ibris-E onto the Chinese SU-35 and then they installed it, as is expected since su-35s has nothing except the Ibris-E for an radar.

If you got any evidence the chinese su-035 has anything other than the Ibris-E then show it and i will apologize,and it should be easy, if the radar is in fact different than standard then it would be newsworthy to any press that reports these kinds of military matters. but right now, you're a barely literate, conspiracy spewing, racist, waste of oxygen.

literally all sources says its the Ibris-E in those chinese su-35S, whether that is from the People's Daily or TASS.

 

[BigMelatonin]

Save your propaganda for someone who believes your retarded way of thinking.

“there is every reason to believe Chinese electronics are superior to the Russian ones”

Then proceeds to list no reasons/evidence of his claim. Trust me bro.

Sounds like a seller on AliBaba “very good. Better than original! So good! Buy now!”

Ironically, you have internalized western propaganda. You state that there is "widespread consensus" that the J-10 is worse, but by who? Western "analysts" to whom everything Chinese is a copy of something? To whom everything Chinese is a stolen design it because it looks vaguely similar to this other thing?
Just because a plane is Chinese doesn't mean it's inherently worse. People still unironically think China, a country with a massive educated population and resources, can't produce quality military products?
This whole discussion is ultimately pointless anyways. Su-35's radar was defeated by Rafale in Egyptian trials anyways, and the chance of Russia selling fighter to Iran is 0, let alone anything not worthlessly downgraded.

 

[Mr Iran Eye]

This forum is drifting day by day! We have reached a peak. You have to be crazy, illiterate to think that the J-10 and the Rafale are better than the S-35 SM. Terrible intellectual slippage. And I'm going to be asked for arguments to justify the madness? It's not serious!

 

[sha ah]

Iran does produce the Bavar-373 SAM system. Iran began to conduct research on this when Russia stalled the delivery of the S-300 a few years back. Iran began producing them in 2016 and I can't say with absolute certainty how capable they are precisely. I honestly don't have expertise in this field however I recall an analyst a year or so back analysing the launch sequence videos and coming to the conclusion that it's superior to the S-300 although it's doubted if its better than the S-400. Although the Bavar-373 has never been used in a combat scenario,

Just as a note of reference, Iran used a domestically made medium range system, the 3rd of Khordad SAM system, to shoot down the RQ-4 Global Hawk in June 2019. The RQ-4 is one of the expensive ($100 million+) and advanced UAVs in the world. The US claimed that the RQ-4 was not in Iranian airspace however the proof is in the pudding as they say, in the end it was Iranians who retrieved the remains first. Now after Iran retrieved the remains of the RQ-4, it has been confirmed that it does have some stealth features, like honeycombed composites in the airframe. This is what Iran retrieved from the remains.

In any case for Iran to be able to mass-produce SAM systems superior to the S-300 is already sufficient for Iran's defense needs at this point in time. Iran's air defense network and it's fleet of 1000+ UAVs and 5000+ missiles, some mobile, some situated in underground mountain bunkers, all of that together is sufficient to ensure Iran's security at the present moment.

Iranian SAM systems, drones and weapons systems have been battle tested throughout the years and we know of their effectiveness from various engagements. When the Yemeni Houthis struck the Aramco sites in Saudi Arabia, Sept 2019, which were surrounded / protected by half a dozen Patriot SAM, some PAC-3 systems btw, the result was that half of the Saudis oil reserves were wiped out in one fell swoop.

you comparisons are ridiculous.

iran does not have the s-400, and does not have the industries nor the wealth for such a system that russia has. so of course their claims cant be trusted.

all indicators show iran likely does not have a comparable product to the s-400 at least not any time soon.


this contrasts with china, where china physically has both systems in question and can fly them against each other all day long, china is also richer than russia(and increasingly so) for nearly 30 years now, and china has a complete aerospace sector, which has already produced the j-20, multiple generations of fighter aesa radars, better missiles than what russia fields, various flanker variants. it is a proven industry and the j-10 itself is hardly the most challenging jet for the current chinese aerospace sector nor would the su-35 be consider the best jet in china even if the j10 and all the other flanker variants disappeared.


likewise, an iranian claim that their tier-2 air defence system is better than the s-400 would be far more credible if iran already has a s-500 or better equivalent, owns the s-400 to be able to directly test them and is 10 times richer than russia


and for all your talk of chinese jets being untested. what actual threat has the f-22 been "tested" against?? did it dogfight su-57s or any other jet?? all it has done is peacefully escort some russian bombers and bombed some desert guys in a $10 tent, but this supposedly proves it against a near peer?
so by your logic, the f-22's superiority is all just conjecture, the f-35 for that matter too. heck we might as well say the us nuclear triad is just all conjecture. it's never been launched against any enemies, it probably doesn't even work in a real nuclear war by your logic.

and yes, UAVs get shot down all the time. what about it? china does not claim the Wing Loong is some miracle in the sky. its a slow, cheap, easy to fly UAV that can be targeted, it definitely isnt stealth. US UAVs get shot down all the time too, like the reaper drones in the same yemen battlefield, heck iran got its hands on a intact RQ170, must mean us drones, even the advanced stealth ones are trash right?

and what do you mean china's su-35 dont have the irbis-E? it's the default radar on the su-35 since 2007. and listed as the export radar on the su-35 by tikhomirov (the maker), you literally cant get anything other than Ibris-E if you buy a su-35 (well i guess if you paid them extra you could get something different).

what russia(and tikhomirov) offered was to upgrade china's older su-30MKK and su-30 MK2 with the Ibris-E. so you're wrong on yet another point.

 

[sha ah]

Assuming that the stealth features of the F-35 are compromised, for example by Russian/Chinese onboard infared search and track systems, the F-35 is then what ? a large, slow, rather fat turkey that can't really maneuver ?

Lately a few of them have crashed during flights. I read a report a few years back which stated that the F-35 is basically an overpriced hot mess, designed to fatten defense contractors pockets rather than to actually outperform or engage anything.

In regards to BVR weapons systems, it's been widely reported way back that China/Russia have managed to produce systems that are faster and with more range. Supposedly the Americans are now playing catch up in this department. They just became too complacent after the fall of the Soviet Union.

In terms of the sensor package and sheer performance, honestly I would choose a Rafale over an F-35 anyday.

Honestly though, at the end of the day though the F-35 and Rafale are both over $100 million a piece. At that price, the question is, who will even have the nerves to risk losing such an asset ?

Honestly I personally believes that the the proliferation of cheap unmanned systems and UAVs to saturate and swarm the enemy is much more cost effective than using super cutting edge, advanced, highly expensive fighter jets along with the pilot, who is a cream of the crop candidate that takes years to train.

This forum is drifting day by day! We have reached a peak. You have to be crazy, illiterate to think that the J-10 and the Rafale are better than the S-35 SM. Terrible intellectual slippage. And I'm going to be asked for arguments to justify the madness? It's not serious!

 

[sha ah]

 

[Hack-Hook]

DCS world in not exactly real life situation and the guy in flanker did many things wrong

 

[sha ah]

I know it's just posted for fun and games my friend. First of all it was a gun duel, that's never going to happen with modern weaponry. Never even in this day and age. Hell even an F-14 with 4-6 Phoenix missiles, it's extremely unlikely, especially since every new jet now costs $100 million dollars a piece. I honestly think that money is better spent saturating the airspace with cheaper UAVs.

I mean think about it, $100 million for 1 fighter jet with what even assuming 8 BVR missiles, that's 8 targets. For $100 million, you can deploy 100 cheap UAVs for $1 million a piece. The Chinese Wing Long 2 costs $2 million a piece right ?

Now assuming you mass produce and build thousands of these smaller UAVs that can use AI, hit pre assigned targets, even if each UAV is a suicide drone, I mean won't sheer numbers,mathematical pressure overwhelm the enemy ? I mean what unless the fighter jets go around gunning them down one by one which can be a prettty tedious task.

Now assume that with a massive swarm of UAVs you also deploy some UAVs that can deploy BVR missiles against enemy fighters with highly stealth capabilities. Would it even be worth it to risk a cream of the crop pilot, along with a piece of military hardware costing $100 million a piece to risk it ?

I believe that future wars can and will be waged in his manner, essentially UAV, robot wars. The first nation states to successfully master and mass produce these tactics on the field can build neo empires of the future. However if you're paying way too much for your military hardware, like the Americans, then will this even be feasible ? I mean they're paying $40 million for predator type drones right so I don't know.

DCS world in not exactly real life situation and the guy in flanker did many things wrong

 

[The Eagle]

Heard about crash of a fighter jet in Tabraiz. Can anyone please confirm?

 

[sahureka2]

Heard about crash of a fighter jet in Tabraiz. Can anyone please confirm?