IRIAF | News and Discussions

[Ich]

Iran's version of warfare is quite different and far more complex than the standard definition of asymmetrical warfare!

Haha, yes! Its like a persian carpet with lots of knots and colors and pictures and and and

 

[Hack-Hook]

As a Russian expert once said, " ... U.S. is foolish to want to pick a fight with Iran, as there is no need to make such an important country your permanent enemy considering Iranian culture of Never Forget, Never Forgive".

are you sure , it seems we have forgot all about 8 year war with Iraq

 

[Hack-Hook]

well as we work on F-5 and like it and drones at least for next decade I rather instead of wasting our time on AL-21 and J-79 and such we produce something like FJ-44 and then move forward from there.

 

[EvilWesteners]

are you sure , it seems we have forgot all about 8 year war with Iraq

Yes, I am sure.

Did you know Iran is "taking out" Iraqi pilots who dropped Chemical weapons on Iranian cities?

Did you know how many of them have been assassinated, so far?

No Iran does not forget or forgive. Still Iranians talk about Dr. Mossadegh after some 70 years, almost.

e.g. --- http://www.writersviews.com/article-dr-mossadegh.php --- as published by MIT publication,

No, Iran does not forget. Right now it just does not have the ability to retaliate. But it will eventually.

 

[TheImmortal]

I rather instead of wasting our time on AL-21 and J-79 and such we produce something like FJ-44 and then move forward from there.

I also would like a Pegasus and to be the richest person in the world.

Since we are saying what we like and don’t care about reality....

Also since some of you don’t live in reality

between 1940 and 1945 US spent 5Trillion dollars (in 2019 dollars) for WW2. That is annual spending of 1 Trillion dollars or in other words 50x the current Iranian military budget.

All these toys (military build up) you guys want cost $$$$

So have realistic expectations and not pie in the sky dreams

 

[VEVAK]

well as we work on F-5 and like it and drones at least for next decade I rather instead of wasting our time on AL-21 and J-79 and such we produce something like FJ-44 and then move forward from there.

And how does production of the Fj-44 help Iran produce a high thrust interceptor? Iran's Jahesh-700 engine may be good for various applications but not that!

If Iran wants to save currency on fuel then they should start moving towards developing a natural gas based jet fuel and a high powered jet engine to go with....

And when it comes to fighter jets maintaining a smaller force of force multipliers & backing them up with a vast fleet of UCAV's would be far cheaper than producing and maintaining a vast fleet of cheep low powered fighter jets powered by Owj or Jahesh-700 engines

 

[Ray_Atek]

First, I start by saying that I have no desire to insult you or offend you in any way, but I just have to speak based on my knowledge of engines and my decades of experience at RR.

To compare J79 to AL21F, is a total utter nonsense. The GE engine is a 2nd gen engine, the Russian engine is a 3rd gen engine. They weight the same, although GE is 17/11 and the AL is a 24/17 (afterburner vs military power). The only thing I like about the GE engine is the PCC (pre-compression cooling with distilled water and oxidizers for higher altitude flight, e.g. 80,000 ft). Other than that, it is like comparing a Ferrari to a Ford.

Ignition box temp increase ???? umm. Sorry, this does not work on me. It's armature talk.

Even if Iran added single piece frontal fan to reduce the noise, even if they used blisks (2018 implementation technology) with blade temperature reducing covering, even if they used the most advanced combustors and low turbine stage, it is still the single spool J79 is a J79 and will always be a J79, with huge limitations. This was the most advanced engine of 1960s. That's all.

Compressor blades itself (without re-engineering of flow) cannot be modified to give a huge air injection for a worthy performance increase.

I am sorry, you are talking total utter nonsense. I hate to say anything that may insult someone on this forum. Not my style, but I just have to say how ridiculous your post is, in terms of reality and engineering.

Please don't hold that against me. I am just trying to be helpful.

I personally don't think much of either engine. I much prefer R35 (in Mig 23) with a frontal fan connected to the power source of the engine to generate a flow (momentum air displacement) with variable nozzle before it enters the front of the engine, this creates air flow momentum and using bleed sensors, reduces fuel consumption (somewhat, better than .98 lb/lbforcehour) - this technique is what U.S. implements with its engines in some of its stealth aircrafts.

With respect.

That post was not a detailed engineering discussion.
J79 has more potentional upgrading options to work on, such upgrading to twin spool 3th generation turbojet.
I don't think you are more familiar than me with what going on iran in turbojet upgrading projects.
I am ready to discuss about j79 doable upgrading possibilities with you.
First need is to understand the effects of combustion chamber temperature increasing.

 

[VEVAK]

That post was not a detailed engineering discussion.
J79 has more potentional upgrading options to work on, such upgrading to twin spool 3th generation turbojet.
I don't think you are more familiar than me with what going on iran in turbojet upgrading projects.
I am ready to discuss about j79 doable upgrading possibilities with you.
First need is to understand the effects of combustion chamber temperature increasing.

AL-21's are already twin spool and you cant call turning the J-79 In to a twin spool an upgrade because that would be designing an entire new engine not an upgrade....

As for increasing the heat potential of the combination chamber and turbines that only becomes effective if you either change their design & or change the type of fuel they use to achieve greater thrust & or greater efficiency.

Regardless both engines have a lot of room for improvement

Without going too much into detail If I wanted to use the J-79 as a core to improve upon & create a new engine I would:

1.Reduce the number of compressor and improve their design
2. Improve the material and design of the combustion chambers & fuel injectors
3.Natrually reduce the length of the spool
4.Improve the material & design of the afterburners & exhaust
5.Improve the ball brings
6..Add sensor to the engine for better in flight monitoring....

Then if I wanted to improve them further to create a new engine i would experiment on the following:

1. Allow for low bypass
2.Turn them into a twin spool counter rotating....
3.Add a cooling system separated from the engine with it's own electronic compressors that pumps in cooled air through the inlet veins.....
4.Work on coming up with a Natural Gas based Jet fuel

 

[Ray_Atek]

AL-21's are already twin spool and you cant call turning the J-79 In to a twin spool an upgrade because that would be designing an entire new engine not an upgrade....

As for increasing the heat potential of the combination chamber and turbines that only becomes effective if you either change their design & or change the type of fuel they use to achieve greater thrust & or greater efficiency.

Regardless both engines have a lot of room for improvement

Without going too much into detail If I wanted to use the J-79 as a core to improve upon & create a new engine I would:

1.Reduce the number of compressor and improve their design
2. Improve the material and design of the combustion chambers & fuel injectors
3.Natrually reduce the length of the spool
4.Improve the material & design of the afterburners & exhaust
5.Improve the ball brings
6..Add sensor to the engine for better in flight monitoring....

Then if I wanted to improve them further to create a new engine i would experiment on the following:

1. Allow for low bypass
2.Turn them into a twin spool counter rotating....
3.Add a cooling system separated from the engine with it's own electronic compressors that pumps in cooled air through the inlet veins.....
4.Work on coming up with a Natural Gas based Jet fuel

Agree

 

[Hack-Hook]

Yes, I am sure.

Did you know Iran is "taking out" Iraqi pilots who dropped Chemical weapons on Iranian cities?

Did you know how many of them have been assassinated, so far?

No Iran does not forget or forgive. Still Iranians talk about Dr. Mossadegh after some 70 years, almost.

e.g. --- http://www.writersviews.com/article-dr-mossadegh.php --- as published by MIT publication,

No, Iran does not forget. Right now it just does not have the ability to retaliate. But it will eventually.

More likely power struggle inside iraq power structure and some cleanup after saddam and his gang left .
And well my understanding is iranian government rather no one associate nationalization of oil industry with Dr. Mosadeq and his government .
Also they seems to prefer it be associated with Ayat-Allah Kashani while he was the one who congratulated Mohammad Reza pahlavi on the succesful coupe.
Now tell me how many of today Iranians still remember that congratulaton for overthrowing of Mosadeq or for example you ask an student about heroes of Mashrooteh uprising and who conqured tehran .
They tell you it was Sattar khan and Baqer khan . well those two never were part of the forces that conquered tehran and overthrow mohammad ali shah qajar.
It was Sardar Asad Bakhtiari and Sepahdar Aezam Mohammad Vali Tonekaboni force who defeat Qazaq Army and conquerd tehran . tell me how many of iranian knew that Azerbaiejan force under command of Sattar khan didnt capture Tehran and they arrived latter by invitation of yeprem khan armani .
How many of iranian knew while majlis ordered disarmament of all conquror of tehran after overthrow of Mohammad alishah he and his group were the ones who refused to disarm and let the government of the law resume and wanted to continue military rule of revulutionary and it was why he was disarmed by force.
No let say we forget what happens very soon . otherwise we would have not have forgot what happened in Al-Qosair . we would not have forgot that for last 30 year every year Syria voted that three Iranian island belong to UAE .

 

[yavar]

Iran Army Air Force IRIAF Mirage F1BQ/EQs Squadron in 10th Tactical Fighter Base, Chabahar, SE

 

[Hack-Hook]

I also would like a Pegasus and to be the richest person in the world.

Since we are saying what we like and don’t care about reality....

Also since some of you don’t live in reality

between 1940 and 1945 US spent 5Trillion dollars (in 2019 dollars) for WW2. That is annual spending of 1 Trillion dollars or in other words 50x the current Iranian military budget.

All these toys (military build up) you guys want cost $$$$

So have realistic expectations and not pie in the sky dreams

We have access to FJ-44 or at least FJ-33 since rq-170. And do you believe Al-21 would be suitable for heavy iranian airplane that will come at least 10 to 15 year in future . we are working on f-5 size airplanes . we start production of jahesh-700 . the next step is moving from that not moving from J-85 .

And how does production of the Fj-44 help Iran produce a high thrust interceptor? Iran's Jahesh-700 engine may be good for various applications but not that!

By puting developement money on turbofan engine not vasting it on turbojet engine.
That high trust fighter wont come sooner than 10 to 15 year in future and till then we only see airplanes in size of f-5 and big drones and engines like FJ-44 and what we can improve on it is what we need not Al-21 like engines that wont help us in developing a heavy turbo fan engine.
And we are not supposed to use Jahesh 700 in those aircraft . we are supposed to learn from it and develope it to the next step which is something like FJ-44 which is good for big UAVs and light trainer and het and then develope heavier engine in class of Al-31 or F-414 and RD-93

 

[Mr Iran Eye]

[QUOTE = "yavar, message: 13032675, membre: 145498"]
[MEDIA = youtube] g4ZysjumZmA [/ MEDIA]

Iran Army Air Force IRIAF Mirage F1BQ / EQs Squadron dans la 10e base de chasseurs tactiques, Chabahar , SE
[/CITATION]


I really like the color

 

[TheImmortal]

We have access to FJ-44 or at least FJ-33 since rq-170. And do you believe Al-21 would be suitable for heavy iranian airplane that will come at least 10 to 15 year in future . we are working on f-5 size airplanes . we start production of jahesh-700 . the next step is moving from that not moving from J-85 .

By puting developement money on turbofan engine not vasting it on turbojet engine.
That high trust fighter wont come sooner than 10 to 15 year in future and till then we only see airplanes in size of f-5 and big drones and engines like FJ-44 and what we can improve on it is what we need not Al-21 like engines that wont help us in developing a heavy turbo fan engine.
And we are not supposed to use Jahesh 700 in those aircraft . we are supposed to learn from it and develope it to the next step which is something like FJ-44 which is good for big UAVs and light trainer and het and then develope heavier engine in class of Al-31 or F-414 and RD-93

You can’t jump from FJ-44 to AL-31, that’s like jumping from Zezal Rocket to ICBM and skipping everything in between.

So AL-21 will allow for a good class fighter medium to low heavy. After enough experience then heavy engine can also be developed for a big fighter like SU-54 class or J-20 class.

 

[Hack-Hook]

You can’t jump from FJ-44 to AL-31, that’s like jumping from Zezal Rocket to ICBM and skipping everything in between.

So AL-21 will allow for a good class fighter medium to low heavy. After enough experience then heavy engine can also be developed for a big fighter like SU-54 class or J-20 class.

Except it wont be a good engine and it need research and developement . that research and resource can be focussed on a turbofan engine. And we wont see any iranian heavy fighter in the next 15 year. In 15 year you can develope fj-44 into something in class of Rd-33 or Rd-93 . meanwhile it can replace owj in our trainer and f-5 size fighters.