IRIAF | News and Discussions

[WinterNights]

No, it was not difficult.

I know it was not difficult for Iran, but you think in general it is not difficult to detect the RQ?

Currently, there are only three countries that have experienced -- not withstand -- attack from US airpower: Viet Nam, Yugoslavia, and Iraq. And none of their air defenses survived.

Those nations, qualitatively and quantitatively cannot be compared to Iran (not by a long shot) when it comes to air defence. I'll give you one example, in electronic warfare. EW is a major factor in Iran's air defence and something they have heavily prepared for, could we say the same for these other nations? Those nations were extremely vulnerable to EW, look at Iraq for example. Good luck trying to do the same to Iran. There are many other factors I could mention too.

Now, do I think at this moment in time Iran can fully withstand a US strike? well that depends how much the US is willing to bring to the table. Lets not be naive in thinking it will be the whole of USA's airfleet vs Iran, it is only the portion the US is bringing into conflict at a time. Even forgetting Iran's offensive moves in a conflict against the sources of US airpower in the region, e.g her aircraft carriers, I highly doubt 2 aircraft carrier fleet will bring Iran's air defences down. Iran is simply too vast and it's integrated air-defence too well prepared. It's not like Iran has only started preparing for these scenarios yesterday.

Even if I conceded that US even with 2 carrier fleets can eventually take out the IRAD, but at what cost?. Modern wars are rarely battled on an all or nothing basis, it's all about cost-benefit analysis. I don't think any US general is naive enough to think at this point in time, any US-Iran conflict will be even minutely in the benefit side of their calculations.

 

[Mithridates]

What would happen is this enters IRAN territory.
Simple answer is DESTRUCTION.
You should know its 4++ Generation Aircraft.Far more lethal and destructive from an American F16.

my dude UAE is not a threat even with rafal, f-16 and mirage. our air force can shoot them down even before they can intercept us. our f-14 fleet can torn up their air force. now several points you should consider:
1- UAE is a city state
2-UAE has no natural water supply
3-their air force has a single airport
4-all of their assets gathered in beach or near of it
5-they have no ground force
6-they are less than 100 km away of our AF airport
7-look at the map, they are besieged by us

(we can target almost every single infrastructure of them with just artillery rocket lol)
8-our SBS (special boat service) units can capture dubai (every ghadir class can deliver up to 7 people near the shore and then they can get out of sub while it is submerged. a little brief on our SBS unit, they have trainings of soviet spetsnaz, german navy commandos, royal marines, US marines, royal SBS unit and israeli shayetet. they are the most badass unit in navy).
the UAE by itself is not a threat, the whole PGCC and US support of them could be a danger.
BTW just look at this pictures and you tell me what would happen if one squadron of our bandar abbas f-4s enter UAE with 24 glide bombs??

24*24=576 bombs, what whould remain of UAE??

 

[sanel1412]

Yugoslavian ,Vietnamese and Iraq air defense was joke,none of these country had modern integrated air defense..and yet some of them make hard time for US, they had very limited numbers...Yugoslavia went through 3 wars before NATO attack,and all that time under embargo..Iraq also,and these countries were not able to produce even one air defense missile..they had outdated systems without been able to upgrade it...Yugoslavian air defense was not even on alert 24/7,they sent some sa-3,sa-6 to fire positions and these literary would turn on P-12 or P-18 radars and search for period of time than turn on,change position..lets go again..that is how they shut down f-117...They turn on P-18 radar search radar and catch target...than alert SA-3 near their position...fired 2 missiles(methot 3 dots) and shut it down...I give respect to Serbian/Yugoslav army air defense,their AD was active all time but I served Yugoslavian army before 1990,I know what we have in that time..after 3/wars(NATO was 4th for Serbia)they didn't have much..first days their air force take off few mig-29 but without upgrad many times with some components not working and under havy jamming.they did what they could,one pilot with Mig-29 engage F-15 with 2 F-15 been near as reinforcements...his AC electricity generator was broken but he tried to engage,I think only one Serbian mig 29 lunched missile...they shut down many cruise missiles with AAA and some aircrafts with Air defense, that we know they hit but never verified.Even in such situation NATO was not able to even damage Yugoslavian ground force on Kosovo (that was goal)..latter they find out campaign was disaster, they hit bunch of microwaves and mock up/fake targets..they started to target bridges in Belgrade,TV building...like it is WWII..Yugoslavia accepted truce not because militart losses but because economic isolation..Russia was not strong in that time...so..they loose Kosovo while their force had it completly under control,and force not even damaged.... except small territory they control almost all everything... We can say they lost on the table ..Iraq was strong in 1990 on the paper but so it is KSA today ,it mean nothing.. but again against 47 countries...with very limited AD which in that time,was large,but static and already was well known(Israel in Syria engage both sa3-e,sa-6..)..Vietnam also didn't have integrated network...Iran would be first time they engage integrated multi layered AD with huge number of AD systems that no one know how to jamm successfully, even old systems are upgraded...With very potent air force and large(Iran air power is not potent as power projection force,but in defensive roles are)...Large navy ...You have to understand,without strategic assets, you can buy anything it will not mean much against big powers...Venezuela has million strong army,S-300VM,SU-30...but all you can hear..they can't retaliate ...if not external support...Maduro would end long time...You have to be able to transfer war to enemy..to go to source...air base,carrier..than it is different story...Vietnam did hit US but it should be said,of all mentioned only they had support from big power and supply during war..other were sanctioned and isolated..without large industry. Yugoslavian defense industry was strong before 1990 but facilities were in 6 republics...M-84 tanks were built at the way that 3 republics had to cooperate...Zrak-Sarajevo(Bosnia)produced optics..Bratstvo travnik(Bosnia)..produced some parts...In Serbia(Krusevac) there was also production of some parts and in Croatia(Djuro Dzakovic).So after 1990 defense sector were very limited...even today gross defense Industry of these 3 countries in not even close o Yugoslavian before 1990

 

[Hack-Hook]

Currently, there are only three countries that have experienced -- not withstand -- attack from US airpower: Viet Nam, Yugoslavia, and Iraq. And none of their air defenses survived.

are you sure Vietnam and Serbia lost their Air-Defense completely?

 

[Bahram Esfandiari]

No, it was not difficult.


Currently, there are only three countries that have experienced -- not withstand -- attack from US airpower: Viet Nam, Yugoslavia, and Iraq. And none of their air defenses survived.

The U,S should attack countries it can actually beat like Grenada!

 

[WinterNights]

The US is a powerful nation in many aspects. Not saying they can go to war with Iran without very serious consequences for them, but the last thing anyone should do is underestimate them. Never, ever underestimate the other side.

 

[skyshadow]

Very difficult to know the effectiveness of some of these SAMS systems, but at least Iran is trying very hard. Lack of progress in this space, from Pakistan is rather shocking, esp in radar technology. Pakistan has some v.short range ground based systems and that is it. Nothing of any significance. Pakistan needs to take a leaf out of Irans books !!!

yes Pakistan really stayed back without any reason and continued to buy its SAMs from others. we did not have radars too but now we have from ~100 km up to 3000 km range radar coverage.

 

[Tamiyah]

my dude UAE is not a threat even with rafal, f-16 and mirage. our air force can shoot them down even before they can intercept us. our f-14 fleet can torn up their air force. now several points you should consider:
1- UAE is a city state
2-UAE has no natural water supply
3-their air force has a single airport
4-all of their assets gathered in beach or near of it
5-they have no ground force
6-they are less than 100 km away of our AF airport
7-look at the map, they are besieged by us
View attachment 559490
(we can target almost every single infrastructure of them with just artillery rocket lol)
8-our SBS (special boat service) units can capture dubai (every ghadir class can deliver up to 7 people near the shore and then they can get out of sub while it is submerged. a little brief on our SBS unit, they have trainings of soviet spetsnaz, german navy commandos, royal marines, US marines, royal SBS unit and israeli shayetet. they are the most badass unit in navy).
the UAE by itself is not a threat, the whole PGCC and US support of them could be a danger.
BTW just look at this pictures and you tell me what would happen if one squadron of our bandar abbas f-4s enter UAE with 24 glide bombs??
View attachment 559491
View attachment 559492
24*24=576 bombs, what whould remain of UAE??

In return for these strikes whole IRAN will taste the destruction of B-2 , B-52, Lancer along with centuries long sanction and whole IRAN will suffer till death. It is not that easy to bomb someone else land. You cannot underestimate someones power until you are in battle with them.If a single bomb drops on UAE you will get minimum 200 in return for that. Us and its allied are finding one reason to destroy whole IRAN and terminate its existence. You should think from the other side too.

 

[gambit]

are you sure Vietnam and Serbia lost their Air-Defense completely?

They lost in the sense that they could not deter, not that they were literally destroyed. Deterrence involves statistics. If an attacker continues, even though incurring losses, that means the defender was not able to deter. I learned this in Professional Military Education (PME) while active duty. When I received orders to deploy to Desert Storm, US airpower executed the math and overwhelmed Iraqi air defense at tactically useful points. Try serving in the military. You might learn a few things.

 

[VEVAK]

Do you think that you will do all this and they will stay quiet and do thing quietly then you're wrong. US will start a high war with you and the whole Gulf countries will gain sympathy of whole world. Iran is not safe of all sides. Afghanistan have most US military presence.

If the Americans see UAE as their little Sparta, a little fact the UAE should be aware and fearful of is that NO ONE came to the help of the real Spartans when Iran aka The Persian Empire wiped them out for good. And yes they may have caught the Persian Army off balance and achieved a much higher kill ratio in their last battel that lead to their deaths but at the end of the day their failure to capitulate to Iran's demands was the death of them and NO ONE came to their rescue towards the end and here we are 1000's of years later and there is nothing left of them but stories clearly blown out of proportion as all stories are, while Iran (Or what the foreigners used to call Persia) is still standing!
So unless little Sparta AKA UAE wants to have the same fait as the real Sparta, they will capitulate!

And at the end of the day countries like the U.S. will do what's in their own interests! So do you honestly think the UAE losing it's Air Force, Navy & Oil facilities is something Americans would risk losing 1/4 of the worlds petrodollar on knowing full well that losing petrodollar would be the very least of their worries in a war with Iran! Especially since the U.S. is already in a $22 Trillion USD debt with the Chinese economy gaining on them year after year with a much faster growing military because the Chinese don't need to pay the salaries U.S. military has to pay nor do they need to pay for the maintenance and upkeep of so many foreign military bases and most importantly they are NOT involved in so many global conflicts.... ​

Now if it was Saudi Arabia with the risk of so much Oil going off market and the risk of the US loosing the Al Saud puppets then sure you'll get a big maybe from me but over the UAE HELL NO! Because the numbers simply don't add up and even someone like Trump is capable of doing the math!

 

[gambit]

I know it was not difficult for Iran, but you think in general it is not difficult to detect the RQ?

No, it was not. Despite what people might think the RQ UAV series was not 'stealth'. The flying wing design does have some inherent low radar obsersable traits, but that was well known since WW II. The flying wing itself was known from the 1920s when every aviation pioneer in the US, Europe, and Russia experimented with it to some degrees. Prior to the B-2, the flying wing's main advantage was range over any radar 'evading' trait.

Those nations, qualitatively and quantitatively cannot be compared to Iran (not by a long shot) when it comes to air defence.

Neither is US airpower since then.

I'll give you one example, in electronic warfare. EW is a major factor in Iran's air defence and something they have heavily prepared for, could we say the same for these other nations? Those nations were extremely vulnerable to EW, look at Iraq for example. Good luck trying to do the same to Iran. There are many other factors I could mention too.

We do not rely on luck. I posted on this forum many explanations on US SIGINT efforts. It has been some yrs but they are still relevant regarding general information. You can be whatever next yr's salary you have, that we have extensive knowledge of Iran's EM signatures.

Now, do I think at this moment in time Iran can fully withstand a US strike? well that depends how much the US is willing to bring to the table.

More than most suspect. Even with 'only' two aircraft carriers.

I highly doubt 2 aircraft carrier fleet will bring Iran's air defences down. Iran is simply too vast and it's integrated air-defence too well prepared.

We will just bypass you. And yes, we are that good. My first assignment was the F-111. When I was stationed in the UK, I learned the Soviets feared and hated the 'Vark. At every arms negotiation, the Soviets always tried to have the 'Vark removed from the country. We always told them to STFU. Post Cold War, Adolf Tolkachev confirmed to US that during the Cold War yrs, the Soviets literally had no defense against the F-111. I was reassigned to the F-16 during Desert Storm and saw how lethal the F-111 became against Iraqi tanks.

By what standards do you measured Iran's air defense as 'too'? Compared to who and with what combat experience against US? We have learned much since the F-111 and Desert Storm. That 1960s jet proved itself against opponents who were qualitatively and quantitavely higher than Iran or at least on a par with Iran. Today, we do not need to carry the heavy bombs that the F-111 carried against Iraqi tanks. Five hundred or even 250 pounders with precision guided heads will do the job. Iran will not be facing just the USN but the entirety of US airpower from CONUS. Iran have no defense against the combination of high altitude B-2s and B-52s, and low altitude penetration of the B-1. Those 'too' that you mentioned? They are meaningless to US. And I do not say with any malice, just objectivity based upon my yrs of service.

Military academies everywhere are watching this US-Iran scenario.

 

[Mithridates]

In return for these strikes whole IRAN will taste the destruction of B-2 , B-52, Lancer along with centuries long sanction and whole IRAN will suffer till death. It is not that easy to bomb someone else land. You cannot underestimate someones power until you are in battle with them.If a single bomb drops on UAE you will get minimum 200 in return for that. Us and its allied are finding one reason to destroy whole IRAN and terminate its existence. You should think from the other side too.

dude iran will not start a war, and i'm just stating facts.

 

[Hack-Hook]

They lost in the sense that they could not deter, not that they were literally destroyed. Deterrence involves statistics. If an attacker continues, even though incurring losses, that means the defender was not able to deter. I learned this in Professional Military Education (PME) while active duty. When I received orders to deploy to Desert Storm, US airpower executed the math and overwhelmed Iraqi air defense at tactically useful points. Try serving in the military. You might learn a few things.

well by that standard then it seems that Israel defense lost to Hezbollah rockets in 2006

No, it was not. Despite what people might think the RQ UAV series was not 'stealth'. The flying wing design does have some inherent low radar obsersable traits, but that was well known since WW II. The flying wing itself was known from the 1920s when every aviation pioneer in the US, Europe, and Russia experimented with it to some degrees. Prior to the B-2, the flying wing's main advantage was range over any radar 'evading' trait.

so B-2 is not considered Stealth ?

 

[TheImmortal]

US didn’t attack Iran in 1979, didn’t attack in 2003, didn’t attack in 2008, didn’t attack 2010, didn’t attack in 2012.

So why do we think they will attack in 2019?

US has been in containment strategy since 2003.

Period of attack is over. Hence this desperate max pressure campaign by US.

 

[Mithridates]

No, it was not. Despite what people might think the RQ UAV series was not 'stealth'. The flying wing design does have some inherent low radar obsersable traits, but that was well known since WW II. The flying wing itself was known from the 1920s when every aviation pioneer in the US, Europe, and Russia experimented with it to some degrees. Prior to the B-2, the flying wing's main advantage was range over any radar 'evading' trait.


Neither is US airpower since then.


We do not rely on luck. I posted on this forum many explanations on US SIGINT efforts. It has been some yrs but they are still relevant regarding general information. You can be whatever next yr's salary you have, that we have extensive knowledge of Iran's EM signatures.


More than most suspect. Even with 'only' two aircraft carriers.


We will just bypass you. And yes, we are that good. My first assignment was the F-111. When I was stationed in the UK, I learned the Soviets feared and hated the 'Vark. At every arms negotiation, the Soviets always tried to have the 'Vark removed from the country. We always told them to STFU. Post Cold War, Adolf Tolkachev confirmed to US that during the Cold War yrs, the Soviets literally had no defense against the F-111. I was reassigned to the F-16 during Desert Storm and saw how lethal the F-111 became against Iraqi tanks.

By what standards do you measured Iran's air defense as 'too'? Compared to who and with what combat experience against US? We have learned much since the F-111 and Desert Storm. That 1960s jet proved itself against opponents who were qualitatively and quantitavely higher than Iran or at least on a par with Iran. Today, we do not need to carry the heavy bombs that the F-111 carried against Iraqi tanks. Five hundred or even 250 pounders with precision guided heads will do the job. Iran will not be facing just the USN but the entirety of US airpower from CONUS. Iran have no defense against the combination of high altitude B-2s and B-52s, and low altitude penetration of the B-1. Those 'too' that you mentioned? They are meaningless to US. And I do not say with any malice, just objectivity based upon my yrs of service.

Military academies everywhere are watching this US-Iran scenario.

but you forget to enter our OTH radars into your equation, iraqis didn't had them. we can monitor your activities up to israel. also we learned how you did against iraq, all of our AD are mobile so when you once entered an area the next time you will not be sure if there is an AD or not. also i noticed in air warfare section you said during second PG war you destroyed iraqi airfields and crippled their AF, so what if iran do the same to your carriers and bases in the region?? also most of your assets in afghanistan and iraq are foot soldiers, helicopters and cargo planes, mashhad airbase which only has f-5s can take them out easily. will your gov risk those people lives?? also even if you somehow neutralize our EW assets, it's still our region we will find out you're movements either by proxies or spies. let's not forget israeli minister was our spy so no one can guarantee if we have spies in EU, arabs or even your ranks or not.
with all respects to US military, with corrent assets in region you can't contain iran that's why i think your gov is bluffing.