IRIAF | News and Discussions

[PeeD]

Good to know that Bagheri is fully aware that the high cost of airpower requires asymmetric "Iranian" approaches to make sense for a country with Irans military budget.

 

[sanel1412]

Iran DM about Kowsar 88 and Kowsar


Defense Minister: Iran developing homegrown jet trainer
Tasnim – Iran’s Defense Minister Brigadier General Amir Hatami said the country is developing a new homegrown jet trainer, dubbed Kowsar-88.

Addressing a conference on aerial power in Tehran on Tuesday, General Hatami said the new aircraft that will be used for training is being manufactured using local technologies and designs.

Elsewhere, he highlighted the Defense Ministry’s success in unveiling the country’s first homegrown fighter jet in August, and said the military plane has passed all tests and would be mass-produced if the project is financed.

Iranian military experts and technicians have in recent years made great headways in manufacturing a broad range of indigenous equipment, making the armed forces self-sufficient in the arms sphere.

Iranian officials have repeatedly underscored that the country will not hesitate to strengthen its military capabilities, including its missile power, which are entirely meant for defense, and that Iran’s defense capabilities will be never subject to negotiations.

 

[TheImmortal]

Elsewhere, he highlighted the Defense Ministry’s success in unveiling the country’s first homegrown fighter jet in August, and said the military plane has passed all tests and would be mass-produced if the project is financed.

Exactly what we suspected another useless aircraft project that the airforce will reject because it doesn’t “meet” their standards.

The best we could assume is an overhaul of existing F-5’s to extend the lifespan to 2030’s if needed.

At this point, nothing is certain.

 

[VEVAK]

Good to know that Bagheri is fully aware that the high cost of airpower requires asymmetric "Iranian" approaches to make sense for a country with Irans military budget.

https://www.tasnimnews.com/fa/news/...-باید-بومی-باشد-و-از-تحریم-نظامی-تاثیر-نپذیرد

Read his absolutely incorrect analysis!
It's totally unfortunate that our supreme leader has people like that around him!

For a high ranking Iranian Military official to come and make an utterly absurd analysis is not only SAD but a threat to Iran!
He say's the U.S. used a lot of bombs to get Sadam's military to surrender in 1990 but in 2003 the U.S. used far less aircraft. And the 2006 Israeli war against Lebanon is somehow proof that Fighter jets are practically useless today!

He sounds like he has been living under a rock for the past 2 decades!!!!!!!! And if that's the type of analysis being given to Iran's supreme leader then we are in BIG Trouble!

1st U.S. didn't need to use a lot of Bombers and Fighter in 2003 because they had been bombing Iraq going on for a decade between 1992-2003 with sorties flown 3-4 times a weak for over a decade using fighter jets mostly so by 2003 Iraq had almost No SAM's outside of Bagdad, No Airforce, No Navy, No Missile Force and just a bunch of Tanks, APC/IFV, Artillery & troops and to take most of them out U.S. mostly used Air launched Sensor fuzzed weapons, Cluster Warheads, Helo's & special forces on the ground with ATGM's.
And to use 2006 as an example is just flat out crazy for a whole list of reasons!

And yes Iran most definitely needs to build it's own Air Power but how far do you think we would go with that absurd mentality??

Yes Iran could make up for a large portion of Air power requirements with mass production of Missiles, UAV's & UCAV's but those equipment by themselves simply cannot make up for all of Iran's requirements

Also Iran's defense industry needs to be used as a tool not only for weapons but to advanced Iran's technological capabilities and the production of more advanced Iranian products. And when it comes to the Air Force if Iran produces a viable Fighter jet and bombers then clearly we will be able to produce Civilian Passenger Aircrafts of any kind, better communication systems, better computers & electronics,...

And when one of the top Iranian Military officials comes out and say's such things do you think Iranian kids and students get motivated to build better Jet engines or dream about designing fighters...… Clearly they do NOT!

 

[TheImmortal]

https://www.tasnimnews.com/fa/news/...-باید-بومی-باشد-و-از-تحریم-نظامی-تاثیر-نپذیرد

Read his absolutely incorrect analysis!
It's totally unfortunate that our supreme leader has people like that around him!

For a high ranking Iranian Military official to come and make an utterly absurd analysis is not only SAD but a threat to Iran!
He say's the U.S. used a lot of bombs to get Sadam's military to surrender in 1990 but in 2003 the U.S. used far less aircraft. And the 2006 Israeli war against Lebanon is somehow proof that Fighter jets are practically useless today!
View attachment 504291

He sounds like he has been living under a rock for the past 2 decades!!!!!!!! And if that's the type of analysis being given to Iran's supreme leader then we are in BIG Trouble!

1st U.S. didn't need to use a lot of Bombers and Fighter in 2003 because they had been bombing Iraq going on for a decade between 1992-2003 with sorties flown 3-4 times a weak for over a decade using fighter jets mostly so by 2003 Iraq had almost No SAM's outside of Bagdad, No Airforce, No Navy, No Missile Force and just a bunch of Tanks, APC/IFV, Artillery & troops and to take most of them out U.S. mostly used Air launched Sensor fuzzed weapons, Cluster Warheads, Helo's & special forces on the ground with ATGM's.
And to use 2006 as an example is just flat out crazy for a whole list of reasons!

And yes Iran most definitely needs to build it's own Air Power but how far do you think we would go with that absurd mentality??

Yes Iran could make up for a large portion of Air power requirements with mass production of Missiles, UAV's & UCAV's but those equipment by themselves simply cannot make up for all of Iran's requirements

Also Iran's defense industry needs to be used as a tool not only for weapons but to advanced Iran's technological capabilities and the production of more advanced Iranian products. And when it comes to the Air Force if Iran produces a viable Fighter jet and bombers then clearly we will be able to produce Civilian Passenger Aircrafts of any kind, better communication systems, better computers & electronics,...

And when one of the top Iranian Military officials comes out and say's such things do you think Iranian kids and students get motivated to build better Jet engines or dream about designing fighters...… Clearly they do NOT!

Bagheri is a moron, many of the TOP IRGC are only in place because of nepotism. They were part of the Iran-Iraq war and The revolution.

The old guard needs to retire and leave.

Apparently Bagheri forgets that without Russian Air Power intervening at the request of Solemani/Putin, Syria would be Jihadistan.

The NDF/Syrian Arab army was on brink of collapse after the fall of Idlib.

Iran was hemmoragging losses fighting town by town. At the same time, Iraqi militia had to leave Syria to defend iraq from the ISIS wave leaving a huge hole in capable manpower! NDF and SAA were incompetent!

Even Hezbollah Special forces and Iran Army’s Nohed couldn’t beat the terrorist on the ground around Aleppo without massive air support.

People here don’t know this, but in early years of Syrian war, some IRGC generals believed that the Iran could not win the Syrian war through violence and had to negotiate with US/Arab states!

Just goes to show you how fractured the IRGC is.

 

[mohsen]

https://www.tasnimnews.com/fa/news/...-باید-بومی-باشد-و-از-تحریم-نظامی-تاثیر-نپذیرد

Read his absolutely incorrect analysis!
It's totally unfortunate that our supreme leader has people like that around him!

For a high ranking Iranian Military official to come and make an utterly absurd analysis is not only SAD but a threat to Iran!
He say's the U.S. used a lot of bombs to get Sadam's military to surrender in 1990 but in 2003 the U.S. used far less aircraft. And the 2006 Israeli war against Lebanon is somehow proof that Fighter jets are practically useless today!
View attachment 504291

He sounds like he has been living under a rock for the past 2 decades!!!!!!!! And if that's the type of analysis being given to Iran's supreme leader then we are in BIG Trouble!

1st U.S. didn't need to use a lot of Bombers and Fighter in 2003 because they had been bombing Iraq going on for a decade between 1992-2003 with sorties flown 3-4 times a weak for over a decade using fighter jets mostly so by 2003 Iraq had almost No SAM's outside of Bagdad, No Airforce, No Navy, No Missile Force and just a bunch of Tanks, APC/IFV, Artillery & troops and to take most of them out U.S. mostly used Air launched Sensor fuzzed weapons, Cluster Warheads, Helo's & special forces on the ground with ATGM's.
And to use 2006 as an example is just flat out crazy for a whole list of reasons!

And yes Iran most definitely needs to build it's own Air Power but how far do you think we would go with that absurd mentality??

Yes Iran could make up for a large portion of Air power requirements with mass production of Missiles, UAV's & UCAV's but those equipment by themselves simply cannot make up for all of Iran's requirements

Also Iran's defense industry needs to be used as a tool not only for weapons but to advanced Iran's technological capabilities and the production of more advanced Iranian products. And when it comes to the Air Force if Iran produces a viable Fighter jet and bombers then clearly we will be able to produce Civilian Passenger Aircrafts of any kind, better communication systems, better computers & electronics,...

And when one of the top Iranian Military officials comes out and say's such things do you think Iranian kids and students get motivated to build better Jet engines or dream about designing fighters...… Clearly they do NOT!

Good thing about PDF is that smart ar§e military strategists directly stare into your eyes and say Israel won 2006 war!

 

[PeeD]

I stick with Iranian military decision makers.
They have done a good job up until now.
I agree that classical airpower is overrated.
As said, its good that Iran did not fall for this trap in the past.

 

[Stryker1982]

I stick with Iranian military decision makers.
They have done a good job up until now.
I agree that classical airpower is overrated.
As said, its good that Iran did not fall for this trap in the past.

Airpower is absolutely not overrated. But it's expensive!

Controlling the skies is essential and Russia in Syria has proved this. Without Russian airpower, the map of Syria would be very different right now.

 

[Bahram Esfandiari]

Airpower is absolutely not overrated. But it's expensive!

Controlling the skies is essential and Russia in Syria has proved this. Without Russian airpower, the map of Syria would be very different right now.

Last time i checked the Saudis and their coalition have absolute air dominance over Yemen's skies. How come their air supremacy not translate to the ground?

 

[TheImmortal]

Last time i checked the Saudis and their coalition have absolute air dominance over Yemen's skies. How come their air supremacy not translate to the ground?

You need COMPETENT boots on the ground with any airforce m. Missing one or the other causes severe deficiencies in your chances to win battles.

Furthermore, Houthi’s had nearly pushed the opposition out into the sea and conquered most of Yemen. Since Saudi and US intervention they have lost nearly half of the land under their control at the peak.

Just go ask the Taliban about the US attack helicopters, they were feared. They tore the Taliban apart like Swiss cheese when they attempted attacks.

So yes AirPower is very important, Iran would have lost most of Syria if not the war, if it were not for Russia airpower. But air power will never make up for competent boots on the ground or vice versa. BOTH are needed to win a war.

Anyone that says otherwise has their head in the sand.

 

[Sineva]

Last time i checked the Saudis and their coalition have absolute air dominance over Yemen's skies. How come their air supremacy not translate to the ground?

Because airpower can neither take land nor hold it,and despite the claims of all the military theorists who were enamored with the idea of airpower alone winning wars,this has still not yet come to pass.Like everything else on the battlefield airpower has it uses but it is very,very expensive from both a logistics and infrastructure perspective,not to mention the cost of the aircraft itself and the cost of the hundreds of hours of training needed just to become basically proficient with the operation of the aircraft for the pilots.
Also,to put it bluntly,the quality of the saudi/gulfie military forces are basically complete utter SH!T.[I`m being brutally honest here as even I was shocked at how abysmally poorly they`ve performed,and thats really saying something]

 

[VEVAK]

Good thing about PDF is that smart ar§e military strategists directly stare into your eyes and say Israel won 2006 war!

When did I say Israel won? I said you can't compare them because Hezbollah does NOT have a Navy to protect that has to protect vital shipping.. a Helo force to protect, large military bases to protect, vital infrastructure to protect, nor do they have a population of 80 Million ppl to feed, or an Air Space to protect or costal waters to protect, nor was Lebanon larger than U.K., France, Germany & Italy COMBINED.....

To compare Hezbullah's VICTORY as an example for Iran to follow is ABSURD and Ridicules!

And let me be as clear as I can be in 2006 Israeli's ran with their tails between their legs! And their ground forces where in utter shock as to the beating they received! BUT Iran is a country of 80 Million people and unlike Hezbullah we don't have others providing money and weapons to us and unlike Hebullah we have vital infrastructure and financial interest to protect in a country that needs to provide for 80 million people that is larger than U.K., France, Germany & Italy combined!

 

[VEVAK]

Last time i checked the Saudis and their coalition have absolute air dominance over Yemen's skies. How come their air supremacy not translate to the ground?

1.Because they are NOT capable of producing their own weapons and no one is going to come and design weapons for them based on their needs and give it to them at reasonable prices and flying high costing F-15's over Yemen after this many years is not only overkill and unnecessary but it puts a massive unnecessary strain on Saudis financially which does more harm than good for the Saudi's.

2.Saudi lack intel on the ground, lack proper ground equipment and tactics which allows them to bomb the hell out of Yemen and create famine there but with no real victories for they are not fighting a conventional military anymore.

3.Saudi military supremacy over Yemen gives them a false sense of overall superiority which makes them think they don't need to compromise because the other side doesn't even have tanks and it's the same type of false superiority the Americans had in Vietnam.

4.Saudi's may not be winning in Yemen but at the end of the day the fight is in Yemen and it's mostly Yemen's infrastructure that has been destroyed and it's mostly their people that has been effected so at the end of the day saying lets have a military like Yemen over a military like Saudi Arabia is also absurd!
For Iran neither side is actually a good example to follow

 

[scimitar19]

Last time i checked the Saudis and their coalition have absolute air dominance over Yemen's skies. How come their air supremacy not translate to the ground?

Partially it does, by imposing and constructing famine on the people of Yemen.

 

[VEVAK]

Bagheri is a moron, many of the TOP IRGC are only in place because of nepotism. They were part of the Iran-Iraq war and The revolution.

The old guard needs to retire and leave.

Apparently Bagheri forgets that without Russian Air Power intervening at the request of Solemani/Putin, Syria would be Jihadistan.

The NDF/Syrian Arab army was on brink of collapse after the fall of Idlib.

Iran was hemmoragging losses fighting town by town. At the same time, Iraqi militia had to leave Syria to defend iraq from the ISIS wave leaving a huge hole in capable manpower! NDF and SAA were incompetent!

Even Hezbollah Special forces and Iran Army’s Nohed couldn’t beat the terrorist on the ground around Aleppo without massive air support.

People here don’t know this, but in early years of Syrian war, some IRGC generals believed that the Iran could not win the Syrian war through violence and had to negotiate with US/Arab states!

Just goes to show you how fractured the IRGC is.

Old school IRGC commanders base their views on the Air Force on the Iran-Iraq war and especially on the performance of the Air Force after Saddam's troops were pushed out of Iranian territory and at that point the IRGC was becoming more organized as a military force but they couldn't understand why the Airforce couldn't simply just fly 40 F-4's in formation (escorted with F-14's) and drop +400 Mk82 on Saddam's front lines at least 2-3 times a week which would have allowed them to go in and pickup the peace's after! And Iran's Air Force at that time had more than enough Fighters to do that but they simply didn't have the Bombs or Spare parts needed or enough trained maintenance personal to maintain that many sorties at that time over a long period! For if Iran by 1980 only had half the Fighters but the capability to build the spare parts & weapons and sufficient number of properly trained maintenance personal and gear on the ground to maintain a large portion of a much smaller force with an Air Force with half the number of fighters bombers & CAS fighters that Iran had Saddam would have been dealt with in under 4 years.

So having a fleet of even 1000 Su-34, Su-30 & MiG-29's without being able or allowed to mass produce the spare parts , the weapons and without a sufficient number of trained personal and gear on the ground ready to maintain a large portion of them on a daily bases would practically be useless.

Which means for a country like Iran buying an Air Force would have little use UNLESS your can and are allowed to mass produce the Spare Parts & Weapons for them and have sufficient number of highly trained personal with proper equipment needed to maintain a large portion of your fleet in the air over long periods if and when necessary!

Iran needs a small but Smart Air Force backed by UCAV's, UAV's, SAM's & Missiles rather than a large Air Force we could barely maintain and arm that would eat up a large portion of our Defense budget just to keep pilots trained & aircrafts Air worthy!

Which means we need military commanders that at the very least emphasis and goes around and pushes Iranian youth and scientist to conduct R&D to achieve the capability to produce at least 1 high powered Iranian platform per month that can be configured to be used as an Interceptor or Strike Aircraft (With a low RCS airframe with as much thrust as an F-15) & one CAS/Advanced trainer per month (Kowsar) with plans to produces at least one high payload supersonic bomber (B-1) every year or two and one support aircraft every year or two with Airframes built from alloys and composites mined in the country and even the tools and equipment needed to build the Airframes should be built in Iran