Iran’s S Bavar 373 air defense system enters service

[Mithridates]

Based on ABM altitude:

1) GBI
2) SM-3
3-4) THAAD/Arrow-3
5) Arrow-2
.......
Everyone else.

sure they are, except the part that you ranked dedicated ABM systems not SAMs with ABM capability.

Iranians seriously are fallen so far in thr own falsified glory of superior technology they even rank themselves above china USA.. seriously guys haha..
Iran is like a little midget in comparison of real technological giants like US Russia France Japan....
If I would have to rank nations by thr technological advancements Iran wont even come in Top 25....

Iranians are not claiming, by comparing the numbers you will understand that only Russians are ahead of us.
now go and worship the countries you have in mind.

trust me the day missiles start falling over Iran you guys will kill for getting some battle tested PAC-3s, this BAVAR 373 will be of zero use,
Iran is no where closer to USA in any technology and almost every field at least 50 years behind, this BAVAR373 is not some technological breakthrough by Iran, same things like these were deployed and then decommissioned by Soviets and Americans in 60s/70s

well we all saw american self protection suite onboard of MQ-4 didn't do shit against our sevom khordad ADS, however they might have tested it against patriot and succeeded who knows.

 

[Tumba]

Iranians are not claiming, by comparing the numbers you will understand that only Russians are ahead of us.
now go and worship the countries you have in mind.

are you sure Russians ahead of you? dont be so humble

 

[Sina-1]

At min 35 I think he is pointing to unveiling of Iranian awac!

 

[Mithridates]

ohh no I am not underestimating Iran, Iran might be doing alright but saying they have surpassed USA China that seems just too much for average person on a defense forum.

I can present a very simple logic to show where modern nations stands on technological ladder.
From time since we have recorded history of mankind the technology which makes a group of men more likely to
dominate other group is metallurgy, the stronger your metal is more likely you will dominate your foe or gather more food fuel, this is also true in modern era, the more stronger and lighter alloy a nation can make
more likely that nation will manufacture better machines, by machines I mean everything from better armor to better engines, ohh yaa better Jet Engines so currently if we see the life span/thrust and ease of maintenance of a Jet Engine, Americans have no comparison.
The GE, P&W manufactures the most technologically advance alloys to manufacture the most durable, better thrust and much better life span engines.

The latest American Fighter Jet engine has almost 3 times the life span of engine in comparison with Russians.
so if we go by average of engine advancements

If we rate American engines of 2019 most probably Europeans will reach the the current american metallurgy standards in 15 years that is French Snecma and Rolls Royce Jet engine core division in Germany.
And after this Russians might reach same standards if they keep putting same resources as of now in like 25 years, and Chinese with the kind of money they are pouring will probably be able to reach the same 2019 standards of American metallurgy in 35 years.
Now here I am talking about basic metallurgy technology that basically defines in modern era how much powerful weapon system a nation can manufacture but there are many other technologies where basic R&D is not even started in advance nations to match Americans and here I am hearing Iran created this superb SAM system that is better than PAC-3 not even possible by any logical reasoning, this is reverse engineered Soviet tech of 70s with few inputs from modern Russian and Chinese system for which Iran paid with an arm and a leg.
If I have to rate Iran in metallurgic scale of development you are easily 50 years behind Americans. No hard feeling this is just the plain truth.

oh please shut up, you begged R&R to provide you engines, Russians D-30 engine is way better than your F-110, Snecma m-88, RD-33 and EJ-2000 is way better than your f-404 and even f-414. any European and Russian 4th generation plane is better than American counterpart. the only think that they lack is your propaganda machine.
and about the part that you said bavar is reverse engineered 70 era soviet tech, shows that you are a clueless retard that do not know bavar is the only land based AD that uses 3 radars to counter threats. there is no EU, US or eastern system like it.

 

[Draco.IMF]

Israel took with easy most advanced Russian SAMs which was designed to protect S-400.

Iranian SAMs are no match to Russian. They are just modernized 50 years old SM-1.

oh boy...you are not mentioning that Pantsir was in reloading-mode and the Syrian crew handled it not in the most professional way, but since when you care about facts, right?

by the way, how is Iron Dome doing against palestinian made 100$ rockets?

 

[Mithridates]

are you sure Russians ahead of you? dont be so humble

you have a brain, use it and you will understand that B-373 is ahead of patriot.
about the Russians, well they are the best in ADSs. their S-500 will be able to counter F-35A +120 km.

 

[925boy]

oh boy...you are not mentioning that Pantsir was in reloading-mode and the Syrian crew handled it not in the most professional way, but since when you care about facts, right?

by the way, how is Iron Dome doing against palestinian made 100$ rockets?

PLEASE dont forget that he also said indirectly that Pantsir is Russia's "most advanced AD system"!!! wow, he's feeding us alot of propaganda man.watch out.

 

[500]

sure they are, except the part that you ranked dedicated ABM systems not SAMs with ABM capability.

Its not a big deal to add SAM capability to these systems, simply there is no need.

oh boy...you are not mentioning that Pantsir was in reloading-mode and the Syrian crew handled it not in the most professional way, but since when you care about facts, right?

1) Pantsir does not operate alone. When one is reloading others are covering him.
2) U can see that one Pantsir was firing like crazy, still it was hit.

Dont read silly Putins propaganda.

by the way, how is Iron Dome doing against palestinian made 100$ rockets?

Doing well especially against long range like Fajar-5.

 

[PeeD]

Thrust is not the only factor when it comes to Jet engine tech., its mainly the efficiency, life span and ease of maintenance which factor in maturity of technology in all these fields Russians are good decades behind latest American engines.
One of the most used engines from both Amricans and Russian are AL-31FP and F404-GE for which data is available online from various countries using them, thr maintenance and overhaul cycles, the Russians dont even come close to the maturity of F404, seems like an average F404 has around 4000 TAC cycles against Russian 1000 that is rarity. I am not even talking about latest American engines.

I gave hard numbers of similar generation, similar size U.S and Russian engines.
SFC/efficiency on both is in the same league (although classified).
Russian engines have shorter lifespan, according to Russian requirements but are also notably lighter. They could change lifetime requirements for a future engine, make it heavier and more complex.

No. Russian engine metallurgy is not decades behind U.S one, maybe some years behind or maybe Russians will claim its ahead.

F-404 and Al-31 are in different class and as said, Russian engines are as per design layed out for shorter lifetime than U.S, they favor 25% lighter engines for better wartime thrust to weight ratio.

 

[Tumba]

I gave hard numbers of similar generation, similar size U.S and Russian engines.
SFC/efficiency on both is in the same league (although classified).
Russian engines have shorter lifespan, according to Russian requirements but are also notably lighter. They could change lifetime requirements for a future engine, make it heavier and more complex.

No. Russian engine metallurgy is not decades behind U.S one, maybe some years behind or maybe Russians will claim its ahead.

F-404 and Al-31 are in different class and as said, Russian engines are as per design layed out for shorter lifetime than U.S, they favor 25% lighter engines for better wartime thrust to weight ratio.

wrong theory, no one builds million of dollars of machine to serve for shorter duration and the life span variance between Russian American engines are on all type and class of Jet engines.
Life span depends upon the kind of alloy one is using which has to face thousands of degrees of heat and pressure for longer duration so who so ever has better metallurgy will make more efficient engine.
Chinese tried their best to reverse engineer Russian engines but not able to copy the alloy compositions used by Russians so are behind even Russians, French got F404 engine core alloy composition in late 70s on which they built there snecha latest engines and even French engines are much matured then Russian counterparts.
And lighter and stronger alloys are no. 1 priority for any engine manufacturer nobody builds Jet engines with their 2nd tier tech.

 

[Shams313]

why dont you logically reason tell me kind of military grade processor being used in Bavar373 kind of solid fuel mix and how much advance AESA radars are present in Iran, Americans are pioneer in almost every single technology how advance is electronic counter measures of Bavar373,
EA-18G Growler systems can effectively jam S-300.

Okay they r using intel pentium 1 for complex task and 8 bit avr microcontoller for actuator control in radars and missiles. This is kind of raw material they have been using and most of them are leftover from the advanced world or collected from japanese electronics graveyard.
I'm wondering how they managed to eliminate technologically advanced rq4 with a missile made of such kind of trash where rq4 did have world most advanced processor.
And last day, mq 9 by ansarullah in yamen..
Those super tuper stuffs got destroyed so easily, so a question arises in my mind did iran lobbied the enemy for destroying them, i mean weapon sells promo for iranian defence industry..
If no, then another big question arises, who the hell one made those drones and who the hell was operating them..
Nostalogic...

 

[Tumba]

Okay they r using intel pentium 1 for complex task and 8 bit avr microcontoller for actuator control. This is kind of raw material they have been using and most of them are leftover from the advanced world or collected from japanese electronics graveyard.
I'm wondering how they managed to eliminate technologically advanced rq4 with a missile made of such kind of trash where rq4 did have world most advanced processor.
And last day, mq 9 by ansarullah in yamen..
Those super tuper stuffs got destroyed so easily, so a question arises in my mind did iran lobbied the enemy for destroying them, i mean weapon sells promo for iranian defence industry..
If no, then another big question arises, who the hell on made those drones and who the hell was operating them..
Nostalogic...

are you serious do you think Drones are comparable to a modern day maneuverable jet fighter with heavy counter measure systems, modern day UCAVs will not be used in heavy SAM deployed areas only once total air superiority is achieved drones will be used as 24 hour air stations to recce and in time deploy ground targets.
May be in future will be see advanced UCAVs which are as maneuverable and as well equipped as latest jet fighters which specializes in operating in modern SAMs.

 

[PeeD]

wrong theory, no one builds million of dollars of machine to serve for shorter duration and the life span variance between Russian American engines are on all type and class of Jet engines.
Life span depends upon the kind of alloy one is using which has to face thousands of degrees of heat and pressure for longer duration so who so ever has better metallurgy will make more efficient engine.
Chinese tried their best to reverse engineer Russian engines but not able to copy the alloy compositions used by Russians so are behind even Russians, French got F404 engine core alloy composition in late 70s on which they built there snecha latest engines and even French engines are much matured then Russian counterparts.
And lighter and stronger alloys are no. 1 priority for any engine manufacturer nobody builds Jet engines with their 2nd tier tech.

I appreciate that you describe the criticality of this issue.
However you have a wrong idea about the state of Russian metallurgy 2019. It may be 5 or even 10 years behind but decades implies more than 20 years.
Look, you don't achieve 176kN on a engine of the size of the Al-41 without a very high TIT and that in turn gives you a high SFC.
I can say that design-wise Russians produce better engines because of their higher thrust to weight ratio. Russians will probably say they are on-pair or even superior on alloys.

Chinese are a different story,they may easily be a decade behind and Iran maybe more or less (Iran has MAPNA).

At the end the story goes like this: You either build a engine with a high TBO or with a high T/W ratio. U.S engines have higher TBO and Russian ones higher T/W ratio. Which one is more important to you dictates your operation doctrine.

 

[Tumba]

I appreciate that you describe the criticality of this issue.
However you have a wrong idea about the state of Russian metallurgy 2019. It may be 5 or even 10 years behind but decades implies more than 20 years.
Look, you don't achieve 176kN on a engine of the size of the Al-41 without a very high TIT and that in turn gives you a high SFC.
I can say that design-wise Russians produce better engines because of their higher thrust to weight ratio. Russians will probably say they are on-pair or even superior on alloys.

Chinese are a different story,they may easily be a decade behind and Iran maybe more or less (Iran has MAPNA).

At the end the story goes like this: You either build a engine with a high TBO or with a high T/W ratio. U.S engines have higher TBO and Russian ones higher T/W ratio. Which one is more important to you dictates your operation doctrine.

not wrong idea but facts which are open on internet there are multiple users of both Russian and American jet engines the data is crystal clear the life span difference is more than 3 times and your argument of better T/W ratio is utterly wrong American engines are on par with T/W ratios the little difference you find is coz of larger bypass<increase weight> of an engine which is thr to increase fuel efficiency, latest Sukhoi are fuel guzzlers which are not liked by end customers.

 

[PeeD]

not wrong idea but facts which are open on internet there are multiple users of both Russian and American jet engines the data is crystal clear the life span difference is more than 3 times and your argument of better T/W ratio is utterly wrong American engines are on par with T/W ratios the little difference you find is coz of larger bypass of an engine which is thr to increase fuel efficiency, latest Sukhoi are fuel guzzlers which are not liked by end customers.

It's true that western engines are more durable, I never denied it. Is this a proof that Russian alloys are decades behind? No.
Is it a proof that Russians have durability issues? Maybe, or maybe its a cost issue not to go for more durable ones.
Maybe Russians sacrifice durability for a lighter engine with higher thrust levels.
Maybe Russians operate the design at levels closer to the maximum, lower life-time but have more thrust available.
Maybe TBO would be closer to western levels if they restrict the engines to 80% power during peacetime while still being on-pair to western engines
Maybe Russian doctrine has lower training hours for pilots due to automation/IADS and simulators.

These are all factors which tell us that Russians are not decades behind, just go their own ways.