Iran's domestic advanced jet trainer "Yasin"

[QWECXZ]

Before I start bashing the F14, an aircraft that I have an emotional bond to like many iranian jet enthusiast, I want to make it clear that I do not believe in manned military interceptors, fighters, bombers etc. I believe that this era is over and the very reason countries still invest in this dead end hardware is simply -> legacy. This is my 2 cents. With continuation of miniaturisation and maybe even more important -> AI and Big Data, I believe that drones are a much more efficient and cheaper alternative. However that is for another discussion altogether.

As far as my knowledge goes, the point of the F14 was the following:
1. Being able to be agile and fast enough to both attain great speed and manoeuvrability but also to be able to loiter and to land in really low speeds. This was done by the extremely cool, expensive, maintenance heave and now outdated moving wing design. Today this can be achieved much more efficiently with a canard design where the distance between the overall lift and center gravity can be decreased and increased, thus altering the aircrafts overall flight characteristics. Much cheaper approach! It needs a control system and computer power which was not present when f14 was designed, but today it is off the shelf.
2. F14 had a great radar and together with all other required sub-systems it could field the most long range a2a missile to date, the aim54 phoenix. However, most if not all systems on f14 were analogue and HEAVY. Today the same and even more superior performance can be achieved with corresponding digital alternatives which are much much lighter.
3. Even the phoenix is an old school missile. The European Meteor missile is half its weight with almost the same range. Interestingly the Meteor missile can be fielded by SAAB Gripen, a single engine aircraft in the same category of F20, which is a derivative of F5.

I think F5 is a really good testbed. Both from an engineering point of view: A more rudimentary design and hence more feasible learning curve for Iranian aerospace industry. But also from a military point of view: As I have presented my case above, I believe that a derivative of f5 can be as formidable as the Gripen. Now if Iran can build a similar missile as the meteor, which I am sure they are more than capable to do, then it satisfies many of Iranian interception needs as well.

I agree with the gist of your post about AI, but that's about future military technology. If you disagree, name one UAV that can efficiently engage a manned jet fighter in a dog fight or has a chance of shooting down a jet fighter like F16, let alone an F22.

When I said that Iran should work on F14, I didn't mean that it should be produced as it is without any modifications. Obviously, any modern aircraft needs to have up to date avionics and missiles. Kowsar is not completely F5 either. But modifying an F14 which has specifically been designed for air superiority seems to make more sense for us because we already have cruise missiles, ballistic missiles and UAVs for air-to-ground operations. We need something that can improve our defense and offense capabilities in the air and intercepts the enemy's fighters and bombers.

 

[Kastor]

When it comes to cutting the budget, there are priorities. Only a fool would reduce the budget of the MoD when the country has enemies that are flexing their muscles for us every now and then. When your Minister of Foreign Affairs says that the US can disable all of our weapons with just one bomb, or some Advisor to the President says that Iranians cannot compete in producing anything but abgoosht, you can pretty much tell where the Rouhani administration stands with regard to progress in military technology.

And the country's economy did a lot better than now during the time of that moron with 4 rounds of UNSC sanctions that enabled literally every country on the planet to inspect our cargoes in any free water or international airspace. The current US sanctions are not tougher than the sanctions that Iran faced from 2009-2012. Ahmadinejad turned Iran into a regional power and Rouhani did nothing during the 6 years of his catastrophic presidency that is worth mentioning.

And by the way, the reason that Iran's nuclear program was transferred from the IAEA to the UN Security Council was because Iran was blamed for working on plutonium reprocessing in 2003. And that happened during the Khatami administration after signing a deal with the European powers. And guess who signed a similar deal like the JCPOA at that time with the three European powers to settle the issue then? Rouhani. A deal that was supposed to end the nuclear standoff, but not only failed to do so and Iran gained nothing from that deal except promises that were never realized, but resulted in referring the Iran nuclear case to the UN Security Council. As a matter of fact, it was Ahmadinejad who had to deal with the destruction caused by Khatami and Rouhani, not the other way around.
When it comes to cutting the budget, there are priorities. Only a fool would reduce the budget of the MoD when the country has enemies that are flexing their muscles for us every now and then. When your Minister of Foreign Affairs says that the US can disable all of our weapons with just one bomb, or some Advisor to the President says that Iranians cannot compete in producing anything but abgoosht, you can pretty much tell where the Rouhani administration stands with regard to progress in military technology.

And the country's economy did a lot better than now during the time of that moron with 4 rounds of UNSC sanctions that enabled literally every country on the planet to inspect our cargoes in any free water or international airspace. The current US sanctions are not tougher than the sanctions that Iran faced from 2009-2012. Ahmadinejad turned Iran into a regional power and Rouhani did nothing during the 6 years of his catastrophic presidency that is worth mentioning.

And by the way, the reason that Iran's nuclear program was transferred from the IAEA to the UN Security Council was because Iran was blamed for working on plutonium reprocessing in 2003. And that happened during the Khatami administration after signing a deal with the European powers. And guess who signed a similar deal like the JCPOA at that time with the three European powers to settle the issue then? Rouhani. A deal that was supposed to end the nuclear standoff, but not only failed to do so and Iran gained nothing from that deal except promises that were never realized, but resulted in referring the Iran nuclear case to the UN Security Council. As a matter of fact, it was Ahmadinejad who had to deal with the destruction caused by Khatami and Rouhani, not the other way around.

100% false news again!------The Sanctions did not go into the UNSC because of reprocessing of Plutonium but because of complete disregard of Ahmadinejad's government of IAEA's Board request for Iran to return to the negotiation table....he's refusal to even negotiate is what made Russia and China not use their veto power. Iran was openly flaunting enrichment activities on tv and in newspapers. He did not make Iran a regional power, he made Iran weaker....we negotiated JCPOA that limited enrichment, for lifting of sanctions imposed during his years as president.....right now we still have limits in place but we cannot even sell our oil.....this terrible situation started under him...not anyone else. Stop blaming the people tasked to deal with the fall out of his piss poor leadership and intelligence.

https://www.un.org/press/en/2007/sc8980.doc.htm

"Iran’s rejection of the 2006 offer, the United States speaker said, had sent a “deeply troubling signal” to the international community. Nonetheless, the United States, too, was ready to resolve the issue through negotiations. The Iranian leadership’s claim that the Council sought to deprive Iran of its right to peaceful nuclear energy, he said, was simply not true. Many other Governments around the world, including some represented on the Council, enjoyed national civilian nuclear energy programmes without any difficulties, demonstrating that there was no incompatibility between a country’s right to a peaceful nuclear-energy programme and its non-proliferation obligations. The unanimous passage of today’s resolution had sent a clear and unambiguous message to Iran that the regime’s continued pursuit of a nuclear-weapon capability, in violation of its treaty obligations, as well as its obligations as a United Nations Member State, would only further isolate Iran and make it less, not more, secure."

Ahmadinejad's time in office: August 2005 – August 2013


The UN Security Council passed a number of resolutions imposing sanctions on Iran, following the report by the International Atomic Energy Agency Board of Governors regarding Iran's non-compliance with its safeguards agreement and the Board's finding that Iran's nuclear activities raised questions within the competency of the Security Council. Sanctions were first imposed when Iran rejected the Security Council's demand that Iran suspend all enrichment-related and reprocessing activities.

• United Nations Security Council Resolution 1696 – passed on 31 July 2006. Demanded that Iran suspend all enrichment-related and reprocessing activities and threatened sanctions.[23]
• United Nations Security Council Resolution 1737 – passed on 23 December 2006 in response to the proliferation risks presented by the Iranian nuclear program and, in this context, by Iran's continuing failure to meet the requirements of the International Atomic Energy Agency Board of Governors and to comply with the provisions of Security Council resolution 1696 (2006).[24] Made mandatory for Iran to suspend enrichment-related and reprocessing activities and cooperate with the IAEA, imposed sanctions banning the supply of nuclear-related materials and technology, and froze the assets of key individuals and companies related to the program.
• United Nations Security Council Resolution 1747 – passed on 24 March 2007. Imposed an arms embargo and expanded the freeze on Iranian assets.
• United Nations Security Council Resolution 1803 – passed on 3 March 2008. Extended the asset freezes and called upon states to monitor the activities of Iranian banks, inspect Iranian ships and aircraft, and to monitor the movement of individuals involved with the program through their territory.
• United Nations Security Council Resolution 1835 – Passed in 2008.
• United Nations Security Council Resolution 1929 – passed on 9 June 2010. Banned Iran from participating in any activities related to ballistic missiles, tightened the arms embargo, travel bans on individuals involved with the program, froze the funds and assets of the Iranian Revolutionary Guard and Islamic Republic of Iran Shipping Lines, and recommended that states inspect Iranian cargo, prohibit the servicing of Iranian vessels involved in prohibited activities, prevent the provision of financial services used for sensitive nuclear activities, closely watch Iranian individuals and entities when dealing with them, prohibit the opening of Iranian banks on their territory and prevent Iranian banks from entering into relationship with their banks if it might contribute to the nuclear program, and prevent financial institutions operating in their territory from opening offices and accounts in Iran.
• United Nations Security Council Resolution 1984 – passed on 9 June 2011. This resolution extended the mandate of the panel of experts that supports the Iran Sanctions Committee for one year.
• United Nations Security Council Resolution 2049 – passed on 7 June 2012. Renewed the mandate of the Iran Sanctions Committee's Panel of Experts for 13 months.
• United Nations Security Council Resolution 2231 – passed on 20 July 2015. Sets out a schedule for suspending and eventually lifting UN sanctions, with provisions to reimpose UN sanctions in case of non-performance by Iran, in accordance with the Joint Comprehensive Plan of Action.

[/QUOTE]

 

[Mithridates]

There are deep burn spots and deformations on junction lines. What is the reason of this? Also note the alignment of the rivets.

i can't see deep burns, some parts of surface are dirty because of constructing operations or might be are just oil or something.

I wonder why Iranian engineers have not made any publicized progress in reverse engineering Iran's F14s. Building an upgraded copy of F14 makes a lot more sense than pursuing projects like Qaher-313.

most of the parts of tomcat right now are Iranian made. people in AF claim that Iran can produce something like
F-15c if wants.
the reason we are producing F-5 replicas are to form a centralized production line.

 

[QWECXZ]

100% false news again!------The Sanctions did not go into the UNSC because of reprocessing of Plutonium but because of complete disregard of Ahmadinejad's government of IAEA's Board request for Iran to return to the negotiation table....he's refusal to even negotiate is what made Russia and China not use their veto power. Iran was openly flaunting enrichment activities on tv and in newspapers. He did not make Iran a regional power, he made Iran weaker....we negotiated JCPOA that limited enrichment, for lifting of sanctions imposed during his years as president.....right now we still have limits in place but we cannot even sell our oil.....this terrible situation started under him...not anyone else. Stop blaming the people tasked to deal with the fall out of his piss poor leadership and intelligence.

https://www.un.org/press/en/2007/sc8980.doc.htm

"Iran’s rejection of the 2006 offer, the United States speaker said, had sent a “deeply troubling signal” to the international community. Nonetheless, the United States, too, was ready to resolve the issue through negotiations. The Iranian leadership’s claim that the Council sought to deprive Iran of its right to peaceful nuclear energy, he said, was simply not true. Many other Governments around the world, including some represented on the Council, enjoyed national civilian nuclear energy programmes without any difficulties, demonstrating that there was no incompatibility between a country’s right to a peaceful nuclear-energy programme and its non-proliferation obligations. The unanimous passage of today’s resolution had sent a clear and unambiguous message to Iran that the regime’s continued pursuit of a nuclear-weapon capability, in violation of its treaty obligations, as well as its obligations as a United Nations Member State, would only further isolate Iran and make it less, not more, secure."

Ahmadinejad's time in office: August 2005 – August 2013


The UN Security Council passed a number of resolutions imposing sanctions on Iran, following the report by the International Atomic Energy Agency Board of Governors regarding Iran's non-compliance with its safeguards agreement and the Board's finding that Iran's nuclear activities raised questions within the competency of the Security Council. Sanctions were first imposed when Iran rejected the Security Council's demand that Iran suspend all enrichment-related and reprocessing activities.

• United Nations Security Council Resolution 1696 – passed on 31 July 2006. Demanded that Iran suspend all enrichment-related and reprocessing activities and threatened sanctions.[23]
• United Nations Security Council Resolution 1737 – passed on 23 December 2006 in response to the proliferation risks presented by the Iranian nuclear program and, in this context, by Iran's continuing failure to meet the requirements of the International Atomic Energy Agency Board of Governors and to comply with the provisions of Security Council resolution 1696 (2006).[24] Made mandatory for Iran to suspend enrichment-related and reprocessing activities and cooperate with the IAEA, imposed sanctions banning the supply of nuclear-related materials and technology, and froze the assets of key individuals and companies related to the program.
• United Nations Security Council Resolution 1747 – passed on 24 March 2007. Imposed an arms embargo and expanded the freeze on Iranian assets.
• United Nations Security Council Resolution 1803 – passed on 3 March 2008. Extended the asset freezes and called upon states to monitor the activities of Iranian banks, inspect Iranian ships and aircraft, and to monitor the movement of individuals involved with the program through their territory.
• United Nations Security Council Resolution 1835 – Passed in 2008.
• United Nations Security Council Resolution 1929 – passed on 9 June 2010. Banned Iran from participating in any activities related to ballistic missiles, tightened the arms embargo, travel bans on individuals involved with the program, froze the funds and assets of the Iranian Revolutionary Guard and Islamic Republic of Iran Shipping Lines, and recommended that states inspect Iranian cargo, prohibit the servicing of Iranian vessels involved in prohibited activities, prevent the provision of financial services used for sensitive nuclear activities, closely watch Iranian individuals and entities when dealing with them, prohibit the opening of Iranian banks on their territory and prevent Iranian banks from entering into relationship with their banks if it might contribute to the nuclear program, and prevent financial institutions operating in their territory from opening offices and accounts in Iran.
• United Nations Security Council Resolution 1984 – passed on 9 June 2011. This resolution extended the mandate of the panel of experts that supports the Iran Sanctions Committee for one year.
• United Nations Security Council Resolution 2049 – passed on 7 June 2012. Renewed the mandate of the Iran Sanctions Committee's Panel of Experts for 13 months.
• United Nations Security Council Resolution 2231 – passed on 20 July 2015. Sets out a schedule for suspending and eventually lifting UN sanctions, with provisions to reimpose UN sanctions in case of non-performance by Iran, in accordance with the Joint Comprehensive Plan of Action.

I have to correct what I said because it was not very accurate and the source I was going to cite no longer mentions what I said specifically. But here are two relevant facts about what I said:

Then in October 2003 after months of new revelations regarding Iran’s nuclear program, Iranian authorities reported that their scientists had conducted experiments in plutonium separation techniques. In a letter delivered to the IAEA on October 21, 2003, Iran acknowledged that between 1988 and 1992 reprocessing-related experiments took place, irradiating a total of 7 kg of UO2 pellets, typically for two weeks at a time using the TRR reactor, in connection with a project to produce fission product isotopes of molybdenum, iodine, and xenon. According to the letter, the plutonium was separated at TNRC in three shielded glove boxes. Of the 7 kg total irradiated UO2, 3 kg was processed to separate a small amount of plutonium. The separated material was then stored at JHL. In November 2003, IAEA inspectors examined the plutonium and the irradiated targets. According to the Iranian officials, the experiments were carried out to learn about the nuclear fuel cycle, and to gain experience in reprocessing chemistry.[12] One interviewed reprocessing expert stated that these experiments may have been measurement tools for a larger facility in the future.

This was one of the turning points in Iran's nuclear program. This was a confession by Iran, not some laptop with counterfeited documents or an MEK show. This is what happened right after that:

October 24, 2004: The European Union makes a proposal to provide civilian nuclear technology to Iran in exchange for Iran terminating its uranium enrichment program permanently. Iran rejects this outright, saying it will not renounce its right to enrichment technologies. A decision to refer the matter from the International Atomic Energy Agency to the United Nations Security Council is expected on November 25, 2004.

After that, the E3 requested Iran to permanently suspend all enrichment activities or else, they would send our case to the UNSC. No sovereign nation would accept to permanently deprive itself of a right that has been granted to her by the NPT. So, the same thing that happened after the JCPOA had happened back in 2003. Iran was forced to compromise on her nuclear rights, but the Europeans demanded more and threatened Iran with sending the case to the UNSC, which they had promised not to. They even forced further restrictions on our nuclear program after the agreement, restricting our nuclear research. The only thing that Ahmadinejad did was that he did not accept a permanent suspension of all enrichment activities and reversed the restrictions on nuclear research which resulted in referring our case to the UNSC.

 

[Kastor]

When it comes to cutting the budget, there are priorities. Only a fool would reduce the budget of the MoD when the country has enemies that are flexing their muscles for us every now and then. When your Minister of Foreign Affairs says that the US can disable all of our weapons with just one bomb, or some Advisor to the President says that Iranians cannot compete in producing anything but abgoosht, you can pretty much tell where the Rouhani administration stands with regard to progress in military technology.

And the country's economy did a lot better than now during the time of that moron with 4 rounds of UNSC sanctions that enabled literally every country on the planet to inspect our cargoes in any free water or international airspace. The current US sanctions are not tougher than the sanctions that Iran faced from 2009-2012. Ahmadinejad turned Iran into a regional power and Rouhani did nothing during the 6 years of his catastrophic presidency that is worth mentioning.

And by the way, the reason that Iran's nuclear program was transferred from the IAEA to the UN Security Council was because Iran was blamed for working on plutonium reprocessing in 2003. And that happened during the Khatami administration after signing a deal with the European powers. And guess who signed a similar deal like the JCPOA at that time with the three European powers to settle the issue then? Rouhani. A deal that was supposed to end the nuclear standoff, but not only failed to do so and Iran gained nothing from that deal except promises that were never realized, but resulted in referring the Iran nuclear case to the UN Security Council. As a matter of fact, it was Ahmadinejad who had to deal with the destruction caused by Khatami and Rouhani, not the other way around.

When it comes to cutting the budget, there are priorities. Only a fool would reduce the budget of the MoD when the country has enemies that are flexing their muscles for us every now and then. When your Minister of Foreign Affairs says that the US can disable all of our weapons with just one bomb, or some Advisor to the President says that Iranians cannot compete in producing anything but abgoosht, you can pretty much tell where the Rouhani administration stands with regard to progress in military technology.

And the country's economy did a lot better than now during the time of that moron with 4 rounds of UNSC sanctions that enabled literally every country on the planet to inspect our cargoes in any free water or international airspace. The current US sanctions are not tougher than the sanctions that Iran faced from 2009-2012. Ahmadinejad turned Iran into a regional power and Rouhani did nothing during the 6 years of his catastrophic presidency that is worth mentioning.

And by the way, the reason that Iran's nuclear program was transferred from the IAEA to the UN Security Council was because Iran was blamed for working on plutonium reprocessing in 2003. And that happened during the Khatami administration after signing a deal with the European powers. And guess who signed a similar deal like the JCPOA at that time with the three European powers to settle the issue then? Rouhani. A deal that was supposed to end the nuclear standoff, but not only failed to do so and Iran gained nothing from that deal except promises that were never realized, but resulted in referring the Iran nuclear case to the UN Security Council. As a matter of fact, it was Ahmadinejad who had to deal with the destruction caused by Khatami and Rouhani, not the other way around.

100% false news again!------The Sanctions did not go into the UNSC because of reprocessing of Plutonium but because of complete disregard of Ahmadinejad's government of IAEA's Board request for Iran to return to the negotiation table....he's refusal to even negotiate is what made Russia and China not use their veto power. Iran was openly flaunting enrichment activities on tv and in newspapers. He did not make Iran a regional power, he made Iran weaker....we negotiated JCPOA that limited enrichment, for lifting of sanctions imposed during his years as president.....right now we still have limits in place but we cannot even sell our oil.....this terrible situation started under him...not anyone else. Stop blaming the people tasked to deal with the fall out of his piss poor leadership and intelligence.

https://www.un.org/press/en/2007/sc8980.doc.htm

"Iran’s rejection of the 2006 offer, the United States speaker said, had sent a “deeply troubling signal” to the international community. Nonetheless, the United States, too, was ready to resolve the issue through negotiations. The Iranian leadership’s claim that the Council sought to deprive Iran of its right to peaceful nuclear energy, he said, was simply not true. Many other Governments around the world, including some represented on the Council, enjoyed national civilian nuclear energy programmes without any difficulties, demonstrating that there was no incompatibility between a country’s right to a peaceful nuclear-energy programme and its non-proliferation obligations. The unanimous passage of today’s resolution had sent a clear and unambiguous message to Iran that the regime’s continued pursuit of a nuclear-weapon capability, in violation of its treaty obligations, as well as its obligations as a United Nations Member State, would only further isolate Iran and make it less, not more, secure."

Ahmadinejad's time in office: August 2005 – August 2013


The UN Security Council passed a number of resolutions imposing sanctions on Iran, following the report by the International Atomic Energy Agency Board of Governors regarding Iran's non-compliance with its safeguards agreement and the Board's finding that Iran's nuclear activities raised questions within the competency of the Security Council. Sanctions were first imposed when Iran rejected the Security Council's demand that Iran suspend all enrichment-related and reprocessing activities.

• United Nations Security Council Resolution 1696 – passed on 31 July 2006. Demanded that Iran suspend all enrichment-related and reprocessing activities and threatened sanctions.[23]
• United Nations Security Council Resolution 1737 – passed on 23 December 2006 in response to the proliferation risks presented by the Iranian nuclear program and, in this context, by Iran's continuing failure to meet the requirements of the International Atomic Energy Agency Board of Governors and to comply with the provisions of Security Council resolution 1696 (2006).[24] Made mandatory for Iran to suspend enrichment-related and reprocessing activities and cooperate with the IAEA, imposed sanctions banning the supply of nuclear-related materials and technology, and froze the assets of key individuals and companies related to the program.
• United Nations Security Council Resolution 1747 – passed on 24 March 2007. Imposed an arms embargo and expanded the freeze on Iranian assets.
• United Nations Security Council Resolution 1803 – passed on 3 March 2008. Extended the asset freezes and called upon states to monitor the activities of Iranian banks, inspect Iranian ships and aircraft, and to monitor the movement of individuals involved with the program through their territory.
• United Nations Security Council Resolution 1835 – Passed in 2008.
• United Nations Security Council Resolution 1929 – passed on 9 June 2010. Banned Iran from participating in any activities related to ballistic missiles, tightened the arms embargo, travel bans on individuals involved with the program, froze the funds and assets of the Iranian Revolutionary Guard and Islamic Republic of Iran Shipping Lines, and recommended that states inspect Iranian cargo, prohibit the servicing of Iranian vessels involved in prohibited activities, prevent the provision of financial services used for sensitive nuclear activities, closely watch Iranian individuals and entities when dealing with them, prohibit the opening of Iranian banks on their territory and prevent Iranian banks from entering into relationship with their banks if it might contribute to the nuclear program, and prevent financial institutions operating in their territory from opening offices and accounts in Iran.
• United Nations Security Council Resolution 1984 – passed on 9 June 2011. This resolution extended the mandate of the panel of experts that supports the Iran Sanctions Committee for one year.
• United Nations Security Council Resolution 2049 – passed on 7 June 2012. Renewed the mandate of the Iran Sanctions Committee's Panel of Experts for 13 months.
• United Nations Security Council Resolution 2231 – passed on 20 July 2015. Sets out a schedule for suspending and eventually lifting UN sanctions, with provisions to reimpose UN sanctions in case of non-performance by Iran, in accordance with the Joint Comprehensive Plan of Action.

I have to correct what I said because it was not very accurate and the source I was going to cite no longer mentions what I said specifically. But here are two relevant facts about what I said:



This was one of the turning points in Iran's nuclear program. This was a confession by Iran, not some laptop with counterfeited documents or an MEK show. This is what happened right after that:



After that, the E3 requested Iran to permanently suspend all enrichment activities or else, they would send our case to the UNSC. No sovereign nation would accept to permanently deprive itself of a right that has been granted to her by the NPT. So, the same thing that happened after the JCPOA had happened back in 2003. Iran was forced to compromise on her nuclear rights, but the Europeans demanded more and threatened Iran with sending the case to the UNSC, which they had promised not to. They even forced further restrictions on our nuclear program after the agreement, restricting our nuclear research. The only thing that Ahmadinejad did was that he did not accept a permanent suspension of all enrichment activities and reversed the restrictions on nuclear research which resulted in referring our case to the UNSC.

Well, let's agree to disagree on who or what brought us to this point.....I will always give leeway to the team doing clean-up. Yes, they made mistakes, but no one could have seen Trump coming...no one. If JCPOA was still in respected by the USA we would not be having this conversation. Trump was lottery ticket in reverse, basically a useful idiot for his son in-law to exploit for Netanyahu and Israel. If it was anyone else JCPOA would have been upheld and Zarif and Rouhani would've looked like heros. But now it's very easy to pin the whole thing on them.

 

[mohsen]

WOW are you truly that blind????

Most important facts to know about Ahmadinejad when it comes to Iranian fighter programs is that Ahmadinejad knew for 8 years that if Iran wanted to produce fighters we need the following:

1. Iran would need to produce Titanium alloy, magnesium alloy, Tungsten, Chromium, Helium, Argon,.... and increase our Aluminum production to develop and produce various alloy composites for aviation with Ti and Al being high on the list (Since they make up most of the mass they would most definitely need to be domestically produce for a domestically produced fighter program to make sense especially while under sanctions)

2. We need large customized tools to 1st produce more capable aviation alloy composites and then the tools needed to work with and treat aviation alloy composites from pressure treatment to oxidization treatment,.... and then various ground testing equipment to conduct various ground tests of various parts.

3. We need to develop our own powerplant with J85 OWJ "production" being a necessary 1st step to complete to gain the experience and develop the infrastructure needed to pave the way to more capable engines production.

And do you know of all those things how many actually got accomplished during his 8 years in office? NONE! HE DID ABSOLUTLY NOTHINIG to help along on an actual fighter program hell even projects like the OWJ project that date back to Shahid Sattari were basically on pause with little funding during Ahmadi's entire presidency.

So your hero is more like a zero! And he had 2 times the oil revenue. ​

And the Q-313 was and still remains an utterly ABSURD project with a rather childish design that was either a scam by the Ahmadi administration or designed by a bunch of kids with little understanding of areal combat.
More than anything else the project seems more like a scam to highjack government funds.
And in what reality would using that aircraft makes more sense than simply firing 2 cruise missiles? Clearly a platform designed by people that don't have the slightest clue on how much it actually costs to train a single fighter jet pilot or any idea on what threats the aircraft would be facing on a modern battlefield nor any idea on how to counter them.....


As for the Yasin that aircraft was nothing more than a rudimentary paper design during Ahmadinejad not even a rudimentary CAD design! It's funny you wanna credit that to Ahmadi and in the same sentence credit Fakour to him as well which actually like most worth while Iranian Air Force projects actually dates back to Shahid Sattari era like Iran's OWJ engine, Kowsar (Reverse engineering and upgrading the F-5's), All Iranian produced Air to Air Missiles and Almost all +750lp Iranian built fighter launched Air to Ground weapons from retard bombs to glide bombs to optically guided bombs to cluster bombs,....


But I will give credit where credit is due and that's Iran's Space Program Ahmadi definitely gets credit for that because he made sure they were properly funded. So far the Rohani Administration has demolished and destroyed our space program and he has put to power morons who think buying a space ticket is progress! Morons who still haven't had 1 successful Simorgh launch and have so far DEMOLISHED Iran's SLV programs rather than enhance it morons that prefer to go back to begging others to launch our sat's who think Iran's space program should go around and build parks rather than build space stations, explore space, understand the cosmos,.....

And I never though I would say this but it seems you were right when it comes to the JCPOA the Rohani Administrations actions or lack there of and refusal to get out the JCPOA in the past year has unfortunately proved that his administration is clearly riddled with either MORONS that are easily fooled by the smallest European gesture or real traitors that need to be shot!

Another childish comment.

I have already told you, and I repeat it again, neither Ahmadinejad, nor Rouhani nor any other president wont decide on the priority of future projects, not even in the civilian sector, even sane ministers shouldn't interfer with the works of experts. defense experts based on their evaluations decide on the priorities. all governments do is to allocate money, absolutely nothing else.
(Though Gen. Dehghan was the only one who interfered, suspended all defense projects to justify the 85% budget loose and received his medal for it from Rouhani, interestingly beside Zarif, Dorri Esfahani, and the rest of the known traitors).

So while Ahmadinejad fully supported both the science and defense ministries, Rouhani boycotted both of them. 85% budget cut in an organization means it's officially closed. the only reason that we still see some output is because firstly most of them are near complete projects of Ahmadinejad era and secondly the direct interfere of supreme leader (against Reformists' treason) to allocate at least 4% of the total budget to defense sector.

If you wanna know what this f@ck Rouhani did to our defense sector, try to find our researchers in prison:
پناهیان: سازندگان قطعات حساس موشک ساقط کننده پهپاد آمریکا در آستانه رفتن به زندانند+ فیلم

That comparison between Rouhani/Ahmadinejad was as childish as calling the Qaher-313 a childish design.
a random guy in Internet without knowledge about aviation thinks knows better than our defense experts who have studied in this field, have tens of years of expertise, and have access to both software and hardware test facilities!!!

Kowsar-88 as it's name suggests started four years before Rouhani, and as interviews are still available it was near unveiling in the end of Ahmadinejad government, then Rouhani happened, they published a vague footage of it, sent it to comma, and if you have followed recent interviews, again you can see that it was the supreme leader's pursuit which revived it, and today they still hadn't installed it's back seat yet!

Fakour was first displayed during the Ahmadinejad presidency (though Rouhani unveiled it 3 more times later!), not only this medium range missile was complete on that time, but they were already working on more advanced Maqsood long range missile and even an unnamed anti missile missile for our fighter jets.

In the last year of Ahmadinejad presidency, they were working on 17 first class major airborne projects, Fakour was just one of them, what happened to them? simply this f@ck Rouhani happened, and subsequently years of delays or complete suspension!
سردار حجازی: ۱۷پروژه هوافضا در خط تولید قرار دارد - همشهری آنلاین


Yes, when gen 5 designs are not funded, then people go for their available gen 3 platforms (F5), and even ignore the progress which was made in Saqegheh to save the costs in one extra fin!

 

[QWECXZ]

Well, let's agree to disagree on who or what brought us to this point.....I will always give leeway to the team doing clean-up. Yes, they made mistakes, but no one could have seen Trump coming...no one. If JCPOA was still in respected by the USA we would not be having this conversation. Trump was lottery ticket in reverse, basically a useful idiot for his son in-law to exploit for Netanyahu and Israel. If it was anyone else JCPOA would have been upheld and Zarif and Rouhani would've looked like heros. But now it's very easy to pin the whole thing on them.

Actually, we got lucky that Trump got elected because at least now we can say that it was the US that pulled out of the JCPOA first, not us. Otherwise, we would've been forced to comply with the agreement without any benefits until 2025. Let's not forget that even the Obama administration did not stick to their end of the bargain and when the US Senate renewed the sanctions on Iran in CAATSA, the Obama administration signed it into law immediately. Also, the Obama administration excluded people who have visited Iran in the last 5 years from the Visa Waiver Program, hurting Iran's tourism which was growing rapidly after the JCPOA. And the Muslim travel ban that Trump signed it as an executive order was in fact designed by the Obama administration.

And considering the fact that Hillary Clinton was detested by most Americans in most states, it was not difficult to see that Trump would get elected. Khamenei was the first political figure in Iran that said Trump would get elected when all polls by the media predicted a landslide victory for Clinton.

And as history proves, Iran getting backstabbed by the UK, France and Germany was not unprecedented. Again, the same thing happened when Rouhani signed the 2004 nuclear deal that imposed serious restrictions on not only the nuclear industry of Iran, but also nuclear research for educational purposes, and singled out Iran as the only country that was denied the right to work with uranium and plutonium in the NPT. Iran kept her end of the bargain for more than a year, but the Europeans did not do any of the things they had promised in the 2004 nuclear agreement just like today.

 

[TheImmortal]

Plans to equip the aircraft with glass cockpits—each with a HUD, three large MFDs and HOTAS controls—were abandoned when the Chinese contractor involved was deterred by the UN sanctions against Iran.

If sanctions are withdrawn, Iran plans to procure 24 Yak-130s, and if this happens, the Simorghs will be retired and used as donor airframes for 11 more Kowsar-88s.
https://www.ainonline.com/aviation-news/defense/2019-10-18/iran-flies-new-military-trainer

Like I said this trainer is a joke. More modified F-5’s with different names.

If Iran could get Yak-130 they would take it over this Frankenstein project. 12 years and you are still on your first prototype.

12 years to first flight of basically a F-5 class trainer.

I said it again, if you knew the budget for airforce it wouldn’t be enough to buy even 10 modern fighter jets. Airforce has no budget to build a true fighter jet. Instead it does these projects which are nothing more than almost university/amateur level projects until someone within the military throws enough money to continue to next stage.

 

[sahureka2]

I thought this was the Yasin discussion!

 

[Hack-Hook]

If you wanna know what this f@ck Rouhani did to our defense sector, try to find our researchers in prison:
پناهیان: سازندگان قطعات حساس موشک ساقط کننده پهپاد آمریکا در آستانه رفتن به زندانند+ فیلم

I taught government can't interfere in judiciary system.
Right now I can't see the film but tell me if I'm correct . is it implying origami government ordered judiciary system to arrest them ?
I Honnestly doubt such thing is possible

 

[mohsen]

I taught government can't interfere in judiciary system.
Right now I can't see the film but tell me if I'm correct . is it implying origami government ordered judiciary system to arrest them ?
I Honnestly doubt such thing is possible

I don't think searching it's title to be that hard!

No, government fired them, like many other scientist contractors of defense, science and energy ministries, so they ended up with debts. a treason plan finely executed by traitors.

 

[DoubleYouSee]

some how??? If the budget was cut, why was it cut, because they wanted to make Iran weak? No!!! Because some moron ex president united the world against us and helped them pass the most harshest sanction regime the world has ever seen.....but of course they don't talk about that moron, they talk about reformers or Rouhani for cutting the budget after the sanctions started biting. This is the kind of dishonesty that riles me up.

Ok there would be a simple question,as a moron like ahmadinejad made this much problem for our country,why a boot licker like rougani shutdowned all we have done during ahmadinejad administration and didn't yield any result for our country and we have those sanctions as well.....did you mentioned last speech of rouhani that said we must attend a referendum to solve our problem with whole of the world......in my view him and his government are western stooges.....western countries put them in charge to just bitray IRI......we had these type people in our history......

 

[VEVAK]

And who wants to impose sanctions on the US? Anyway, any sanctions on the US in aerospace industry would backfire because the US alone accounts for more than half of the breakthroughs in this field after the World War II. Any country that decides to put sanctions on it will actually deprive itself of the recent advances in the field. China was under sanctions too. The Soviet Union independently competed with the United States and Western countries for more than 4 decades during the cold war.


I get your point, but if building a copy of F14 is a waste of time and resources, what do you call building four copies of F5 (Azarakhsh, Saeghe1, Saeghe2, Kowsar) then? At least F14 was designed to be an air superiority fighter and if properly upgraded, it can cause trouble for F15s and F16s that our neighbors operate. Maybe even for F17s that continue to be the backbone of the US Navy Air Force.



To be fair, at least Iran produced 10 airplanes under the IrAn-140 Project with Ukraine's Antonov. Rouhani canceled the project altogether after just one crash, which was immediately blamed on the airplane without investigation citing that Iran's weather is too different from Ukraine's. Saudi Arabia, who has one of the world's leading airlines in the world and has an even hotter country than Iran, signed a similar deal with Ukraine and they advertised it as a source of pride for the Saudi engineers while the Rouhani administration ruined one of our best opportunities to learn from an actual airplane manufacturer. We had plans to produce the engine locally by 2015 (if I'm not mistaken), something that would've made a huge difference for us if realized.

And IrAn-140 was built under both the US and the UN sanctions. Do you think the Rouhani administration can do the same? Rouhani spent 2015-2017 wasting Iran's time placing unrealistic orders for passenger airplanes like Boeing Max 737 to expand Iran's intercontinental fleet, while I'm sure that even he knew that the US would never allow the sale of all those airplanes to us! And now they're fooling people by telling us that the arms embargo on Iran will be lifted by 2020. Not gonna happen, my friend. It's just another trick to stop Iran's progress.

I'm not here to defend Rohani's actions however looking at what has transpired as it pertains to Ukraine's internal politics and foreign policy I really don't see how the Ir-140 project would have ended any other way!
And FYI Saudi Arabia is mostly a flat desert while most of Iran's terrain sits at higher altitudes and is mostly made up of maintains...... As for the cancelation of the An-140 if it was up to me and the politics of Ukraine hadn't changed I would have still cancelled it's use as a civilian Aircraft and would have totally canceled their operations out of a few of the countries Airports however I would have still kept the project alive for military use and configurations with research and RD into improving it's reliability under the military projects so that one day it can again be used for between city operations out of a few of the countries smaller airports.

 

[QWECXZ]

I'm not here to defend Rohani's actions however looking at what has transpired as it pertains to Ukraine's internal politics and foreign policy I really don't see how the Ir-140 project would have ended any other way!
And FYI Saudi Arabia is mostly a flat desert while most of Iran's terrain sits at higher altitudes and is mostly made up of maintains...... As for the cancelation of the An-140 if it was up to me and the politics of Ukraine hadn't changed I would have still cancelled it's use as a civilian Aircraft and would have totally canceled their operations out of a few of the countries Airports however I would have still kept the project alive for military use and configurations with research and RD into improving it's reliability under the military projects so that one day it can again be used for between city operations out of a few of the countries smaller airports.

Yes, but the reason that was given by the authorities was that Ukraine is a cold country while Iran is too hot for flying Ukrainian planes. So, at least the wording of the authorities seems to be related to temperature, not altitude.

Unlike Poland which has joined the US maximum pressure campaign and hosted an anti-Iran summit last year, Ukraine has been neutral about the US-Iran conflict. We can hypothesize different scenarios about what would've happened had Iran not canceled the Iran-Antonov project, but the fact is that we canceled it, not Ukraine. And considering the fact that Ukraine is facing economic hardship like Iran and Iran does not recognize the annexation of the Crimea by Russia, I think they still welcome civilian cooperation with Iran.

 

[Sineva]

I thought this was the Yasin discussion!

Indeed!