Iran's domestic advanced jet trainer "Yasin"

[Aramagedon]

Actually you're a shame for Iranians on this forum. Iran is the only country in the world that can produce everything from 0 to 100 under sanctions and arms embargo. Dumb and disappointed people like you should live in Saudia.

This plane is not new nor is the project high priority.

Given I saw pictures of this project AT LEAST 3 years ago. Reason would stipulate that the project has existed for AT LEAST 5 years if not up to 10 years.

10 years and still a lousy prototype?

This project is once again another one of Iran’s demonstration project.

With then syrian war and severe economic sanctions, expecting significant money to such projects is borderline ignorant.

This project like the Attack Helicopter prototype we were shown a couple years ago is stalled.

At best Iran would do a limited production run (less than 50 aircraft maybe as little as 1-2 squadrons) and at worst this project gets dropped for Yak-130 when arms embargo drops.

I have zero expectations for this project. After the national embarrassment that was Qaher.

Iran’s Air Force fighter jet development is an embarrassment by those at the top that constantly spread propaganda and false promises.

 

[QWECXZ]

Actually you're a shame for Iranians on this forum. Iran is the only country in the world that can produce everything from 0 to 100 under sanctions and arms embargo. Dumb and disappointed people like you should live in Saudia.

Why? I see nothing wrong with his comment.

Plus, producing something from 0 to 100% is not always something to be proud of. The US can finance, design and manufacture everything the USAF needs inside the US but sometimes it makes more sense to outsource parts of your projects because of reasons like production-possibility frontier.

I wonder why Iranian engineers have not made any publicized progress in reverse engineering Iran's F14s. Building an upgraded copy of F14 makes a lot more sense than pursuing projects like Qaher-313.

 

[Aramagedon]

Why? I see nothing wrong with his comment.

Plus, producing something from 0 to 100% is not always something to be proud of. The US can finance, design and manufacture everything the USAF needs inside the US but sometimes it makes more sense to outsource parts of your projects

They are not under sanctions.

I wonder why Iranian engineers have not made any publicized progress in reverse engineering Iran's F14s. Building an upgraded copy of F14 makes a lot more sense than pursuing projects like Qaher-313.

Price.

Developing missiles are more effective and less expensive than projects like reverse engineering F-14.

 

[Sina-1]

I wonder why Iranian engineers have not made any publicized progress in reverse engineering Iran's F14s. Building an upgraded copy of F14 makes a lot more sense than pursuing projects like Qaher-313.

F14 was a great design when it entered service. Today it would be nothing short of wasted resources to rebuild it.

 

[VEVAK]

Yasin, Qaher, Fotros, Fakour, air born radars, and a dozen of other aviation projects belong to the Ahmadinejad era, all suspended when the Rouhani f@cker cut 85% of the defense ministry's budget, all of them have been suspended or advanced with minimum speed.

WOW are you truly that blind????

Most important facts to know about Ahmadinejad when it comes to Iranian fighter programs is that Ahmadinejad knew for 8 years that if Iran wanted to produce fighters we need the following:

1. Iran would need to produce Titanium alloy, magnesium alloy, Tungsten, Chromium, Helium, Argon,.... and increase our Aluminum production to develop and produce various alloy composites for aviation with Ti and Al being high on the list (Since they make up most of the mass they would most definitely need to be domestically produce for a domestically produced fighter program to make sense especially while under sanctions)

2. We need large customized tools to 1st produce more capable aviation alloy composites and then the tools needed to work with and treat aviation alloy composites from pressure treatment to oxidization treatment,.... and then various ground testing equipment to conduct various ground tests of various parts.

3. We need to develop our own powerplant with J85 OWJ "production" being a necessary 1st step to complete to gain the experience and develop the infrastructure needed to pave the way to more capable engines production.

And do you know of all those things how many actually got accomplished during his 8 years in office? NONE! HE DID ABSOLUTLY NOTHINIG to help along on an actual fighter program hell even projects like the OWJ project that date back to Shahid Sattari were basically on pause with little funding during Ahmadi's entire presidency.

So your hero is more like a zero! And he had 2 times the oil revenue. ​

And the Q-313 was and still remains an utterly ABSURD project with a rather childish design that was either a scam by the Ahmadi administration or designed by a bunch of kids with little understanding of areal combat.
More than anything else the project seems more like a scam to highjack government funds.
And in what reality would using that aircraft makes more sense than simply firing 2 cruise missiles? Clearly a platform designed by people that don't have the slightest clue on how much it actually costs to train a single fighter jet pilot or any idea on what threats the aircraft would be facing on a modern battlefield nor any idea on how to counter them.....


As for the Yasin that aircraft was nothing more than a rudimentary paper design during Ahmadinejad not even a rudimentary CAD design! It's funny you wanna credit that to Ahmadi and in the same sentence credit Fakour to him as well which actually like most worth while Iranian Air Force projects actually dates back to Shahid Sattari era like Iran's OWJ engine, Kowsar (Reverse engineering and upgrading the F-5's), All Iranian produced Air to Air Missiles and Almost all +750lp Iranian built fighter launched Air to Ground weapons from retard bombs to glide bombs to optically guided bombs to cluster bombs,....


But I will give credit where credit is due and that's Iran's Space Program Ahmadi definitely gets credit for that because he made sure they were properly funded. So far the Rohani Administration has demolished and destroyed our space program and he has put to power morons who think buying a space ticket is progress! Morons who still haven't had 1 successful Simorgh launch and have so far DEMOLISHED Iran's SLV programs rather than enhance it morons that prefer to go back to begging others to launch our sat's who think Iran's space program should go around and build parks rather than build space stations, explore space, understand the cosmos,.....

And I never though I would say this but it seems you were right when it comes to the JCPOA the Rohani Administrations actions or lack there of and refusal to get out the JCPOA in the past year has unfortunately proved that his administration is clearly riddled with either MORONS that are easily fooled by the smallest European gesture or real traitors that need to be shot!

 

[Kastor]

Yasin, Qaher, Fotros, Fakour, air born radars, and a dozen of other aviation projects belong to the Ahmadinejad era, all suspended when the Rouhani f@cker cut 85% of the defense ministry's budget, all of them have been suspended or advanced with minimum speed.

 

[DoubleYouSee]

View attachment 585212

Sorry bro....but i think somehow he is right.......the projects which are related to the artesh will remain project(fotros-zulfiqar tank-sofre mahi).....but some projects which were being done by ministery of defence,have had suspented because of lack of budget(Iranian awacs)

 

[QWECXZ]

They are not under sanctions.

Price.

Developing missiles are more effective and less expensive than projects like reverse engineering F-14.

And who wants to impose sanctions on the US? Anyway, any sanctions on the US in aerospace industry would backfire because the US alone accounts for more than half of the breakthroughs in this field after the World War II. Any country that decides to put sanctions on it will actually deprive itself of the recent advances in the field. China was under sanctions too. The Soviet Union independently competed with the United States and Western countries for more than 4 decades during the cold war.

F14 was a great design when it entered service. Today it would be nothing short of wasted resources to rebuild it.

I get your point, but if building a copy of F14 is a waste of time and resources, what do you call building four copies of F5 (Azarakhsh, Saeghe1, Saeghe2, Kowsar) then? At least F14 was designed to be an air superiority fighter and if properly upgraded, it can cause trouble for F15s and F16s that our neighbors operate. Maybe even for F17s that continue to be the backbone of the US Navy Air Force.

WOW are you truly that blind????

Most important facts to know about Ahmadinejad when it comes to Iranian fighter programs is that Ahmadinejad knew for 8 years that if Iran wanted to produce fighters we need the following:

1. Iran would need to produce Titanium alloy, magnesium alloy, Tungsten, Chromium, Helium, Argon,.... and increase our Aluminum production to develop and produce various alloy composites for aviation with Ti and Al being high on the list (Since they make up most of the mass they would most definitely need to be domestically produce for a domestically produced fighter program to make sense especially while under sanctions)

2. We need large customized tools to 1st produce more capable aviation alloy composites and then the tools needed to work with and treat aviation alloy composites from pressure treatment to oxidization treatment,.... and then various ground testing equipment to conduct various ground tests of various parts.

3. We need to develop our own powerplant with J85 OWJ "production" being a necessary 1st step to complete to gain the experience and develop the infrastructure needed to pave the way to more capable engines production.

And do you know of all those things how many actually got accomplished during his 8 years in office? NONE! HE DID ABSOLUTLY NOTHINIG to help along on an actual fighter program hell even projects like the OWJ project that date back to Shahid Sattari were basically on pause with little funding during Ahmadi's entire presidency.

So your hero is more like a zero! And he had 2 times the oil revenue. ​

And the Q-313 was and still remains an utterly ABSURD project with a rather childish design that was either a scam by the Ahmadi administration or designed by a bunch of kids with little understanding of areal combat.
More than anything else the project seems more like a scam to highjack government funds.
And in what reality would using that aircraft makes more sense than simply firing 2 cruise missiles? Clearly a platform designed by people that don't have the slightest clue on how much it actually costs to train a single fighter jet pilot or any idea on what threats the aircraft would be facing on a modern battlefield nor any idea on how to counter them.....


As for the Yasin that aircraft was nothing more than a rudimentary paper design during Ahmadinejad not even a rudimentary CAD design! It's funny you wanna credit that to Ahmadi and in the same sentence credit Fakour to him as well which actually like most worth while Iranian Air Force projects actually dates back to Shahid Sattari era like Iran's OWJ engine, Kowsar (Reverse engineering and upgrading the F-5's), All Iranian produced Air to Air Missiles and Almost all +750lp Iranian built fighter launched Air to Ground weapons from retard bombs to glide bombs to optically guided bombs to cluster bombs,....


But I will give credit where credit is due and that's Iran's Space Program Ahmadi definitely gets credit for that because he made sure they were properly funded. So far the Rohani Administration has demolished and destroyed our space program and he has put to power morons who think buying a space ticket is progress! Morons who still haven't had 1 successful Simorgh launch and have so far DEMOLISHED Iran's SLV programs rather than enhance it morons that prefer to go back to begging others to launch our sat's who think Iran's space program should go around and build parks rather than build space stations, explore space, understand the cosmos,.....

And I never though I would say this but it seems you were right when it comes to the JCPOA the Rohani Administrations actions or lack there of and refusal to get out the JCPOA in the past year has unfortunately proved that his administration is clearly riddled with either MORONS that are easily fooled by the smallest European gesture or real traitors that need to be shot!

To be fair, at least Iran produced 10 airplanes under the IrAn-140 Project with Ukraine's Antonov. Rouhani canceled the project altogether after just one crash, which was immediately blamed on the airplane without investigation citing that Iran's weather is too different from Ukraine's. Saudi Arabia, who has one of the world's leading airlines in the world and has an even hotter country than Iran, signed a similar deal with Ukraine and they advertised it as a source of pride for the Saudi engineers while the Rouhani administration ruined one of our best opportunities to learn from an actual airplane manufacturer. We had plans to produce the engine locally by 2015 (if I'm not mistaken), something that would've made a huge difference for us if realized.

And IrAn-140 was built under both the US and the UN sanctions. Do you think the Rouhani administration can do the same? Rouhani spent 2015-2017 wasting Iran's time placing unrealistic orders for passenger airplanes like Boeing Max 737 to expand Iran's intercontinental fleet, while I'm sure that even he knew that the US would never allow the sale of all those airplanes to us! And now they're fooling people by telling us that the arms embargo on Iran will be lifted by 2020. Not gonna happen, my friend. It's just another trick to stop Iran's progress.

 

[Aramagedon]

And who wants to impose sanctions on the US? Anyway, any sanctions on the US in aerospace industry would backfire because the US alone accounts for more than half of the breakthroughs in this field after the World War II. Any country that decides to put sanctions on it will actually deprive itself of the recent advances in the field. China was under sanctions too. The Soviet Union independently competed with the United States and Western countries for more than 4 decades during the cold war.


I get your point, but if building a copy of F14 is a waste of time and resources, what do you call building four copies of F5 (Azarakhsh, Saeghe1, Saeghe2, Kowsar) then? At least F14 was designed to be an air superiority fighter and if properly upgraded, it can cause trouble for F15s and F16s that our neighbors operate. Maybe even for F17s that continue to be the backbone of the US Navy Air Force.



To be fair, at least Iran produced 10 airplanes under the IrAn-140 Project with Ukraine's Antonov. Rouhani canceled the project altogether after just one crash, which was immediately blamed on the airplane without investigation citing that Iran's weather is too different from Ukraine's. Saudi Arabia, who has one of the world's leading airlines in the world and has an even hotter country than Iran, signed a similar deal with Ukraine and they advertised it as a source of pride for the Saudi engineers while the Rouhani administration ruined one of our best opportunities to learn from an actual airplane manufacturer. We had plans to produce the engine locally by 2015 (if I'm not mistaken), something that would've made a huge difference for us if realized.

And IrAn-140 was built under both the US and the UN sanctions. Do you think the Rouhani administration can do the same? Rouhani spent 2015-2017 wasting Iran's time placing unrealistic orders for passenger airplanes like Boeing Max 737 to expand Iran's intercontinental fleet, while I'm sure that even he knew that the US would never allow the sale of all those airplanes to us! And now they're fooling people by telling us that the arms embargo on Iran will be lifted by 2020. Not gonna happen, my friend. It's just another trick to stop Iran's progress.

Pal I didn’t say anyone wants to impose sanctions on the US. I said Iran is under sanctions for years while a country like US is not. So even US do this, that, because they’re not under sanctions.

 

[HAIDER]

The first prototype of the Iranian Kowsar-88 basic jet trainer made its first flight at the Islamic Republic of Iran Air Force‘s (IRIAF’s) Third Tactical Fighter Base at Hamedan (also known as the Martyr Nojeh base), most probably on October 15. Apparently renamed as the Yasin, the aircraft was formally unveiled on October 16 in a ceremony attended by Iran’s defense minister, Brigadier General Ali Hatami, Commander of the Air Force, Brigadier General (pilot) Nasirzadeh, and Vice President for Science and Technology, Surena Stari.

Designed by the Iran Aviation Industries Organization’s Aerospace Research Centre, the aircraft incorporates a number of lessons learned from the failed Ya-Hossein advanced-trainer project, under which Owj produced a succession of designs, starting with the Dorna (Lark), then the Tondar (Thunder), and finally the Tazarv (Pheasant). Many of the Owj Complex engineers and technicians were transferred to the Iran Aircraft Manufacturing Industries Corporation (IAMI, but better known by its Persian acronym, HESA), which was to be responsible for the new program.

Conceptual design of the Kowsar-88 (also known as the Kosar 88) began In December 2007, and resulted in a twin-engine aircraft that bears a passing resemblance to the Taiwanese AIDC AT-3 and the Mikoyan MiG-AT. The program was officially announced in 2013. The aircraft was designed to make maximum use of components from retired Northrop F-5A/B Freedom Fighters, including avionics and hydraulics systems, landing gear, and engines. This promised to reduce program costs and to overcome some of the problems posed by international sanctions. For the first batch of aircraft, the Iranian Air Force provided three RF-5As and six F-5As as donor airframes, and promised to add six two-seat F-5Bs.

Officially, the aircraft is powered by two J90 turbofans, which are described as locally manufactured, reverse-engineered derivatives of the General Electric J85, as used in the F-5A. It seems likely that refurbished J85s are actually installed. There are plans that they may be replaced in the 50 production Yasins by 100 Russian-supplied Salyut AI-222-25F engines, following an agreement signed at the MAKS show in 2017. Plans to equip the aircraft with glass cockpits—each with a HUD, three large MFDs and HOTAS controls—were abandoned when the Chinese contractor involved was deterred by the UN sanctions against Iran.

Work on the construction of the Kowsar-88 prototype began in 2016 after an Iranian request for the procurement of 24 Yak-130 advanced jet trainers was turned down. Originally the aircraft was scheduled to fly in February 2017, but the allocated engines were used in the Qaher F-313 mock-up, and the aircraft was still incomplete when it was unveiled in Tehran on April 15, 2017 and the first flight date slipped to mid-2018. Fast-taxi trials began in April 2018, but the aircraft was not ready in time for its planned debut in August 2018. Instead, a rebuilt Northrop F-5F Azarakhsh II that had been used as an avionics testbed for the Kowsar-88 was unveiled as though it was the ‘Kowsar-1’, leading to a great deal of confusion.

The IRIAF plans to procure 50 production Kowsar-88s as advanced jet trainers and light attack aircraft, with service entry provisionally scheduled for 2023. A 16-aircraft squadron will serve alongside the existing fleet of 11 modernized F-5B Simorghs. If sanctions are withdrawn, Iran plans to procure 24 Yak-130s, and if this happens, the Simorghs will be retired and used as donor airframes for 11 more Kowsar-88s.
https://www.ainonline.com/aviation-news/defense/2019-10-18/iran-flies-new-military-trainer

 

[Sina-1]

I get your point, but if building a copy of F14 is a waste of time and resources, what do you call building four copies of F5 (Azarakhsh, Saeghe1, Saeghe2, Kowsar) then? At least F14 was designed to be an air superiority fighter and if properly upgraded, it can cause trouble for F15s and F16s that our neighbors operate. Maybe even for F17s that continue to be the backbone of the US Navy Air Force.

Before I start bashing the F14, an aircraft that I have an emotional bond to like many iranian jet enthusiast, I want to make it clear that I do not believe in manned military interceptors, fighters, bombers etc. I believe that this era is over and the very reason countries still invest in this dead end hardware is simply -> legacy. This is my 2 cents. With continuation of miniaturisation and maybe even more important -> AI and Big Data, I believe that drones are a much more efficient and cheaper alternative. However that is for another discussion altogether.

As far as my knowledge goes, the point of the F14 was the following:
1. Being able to be agile and fast enough to both attain great speed and manoeuvrability but also to be able to loiter and to land in really low speeds. This was done by the extremely cool, expensive, maintenance heave and now outdated moving wing design. Today this can be achieved much more efficiently with a canard design where the distance between the overall lift and center gravity can be decreased and increased, thus altering the aircrafts overall flight characteristics. Much cheaper approach! It needs a control system and computer power which was not present when f14 was designed, but today it is off the shelf.
2. F14 had a great radar and together with all other required sub-systems it could field the most long range a2a missile to date, the aim54 phoenix. However, most if not all systems on f14 were analogue and HEAVY. Today the same and even more superior performance can be achieved with corresponding digital alternatives which are much much lighter.
3. Even the phoenix is an old school missile. The European Meteor missile is half its weight with almost the same range. Interestingly the Meteor missile can be fielded by SAAB Gripen, a single engine aircraft in the same category of F20, which is a derivative of F5.

I think F5 is a really good testbed. Both from an engineering point of view: A more rudimentary design and hence more feasible learning curve for Iranian aerospace industry. But also from a military point of view: As I have presented my case above, I believe that a derivative of f5 can be as formidable as the Gripen. Now if Iran can build a similar missile as the meteor, which I am sure they are more than capable to do, then it satisfies many of Iranian interception needs as well.

 

[Myself]

The first prototype of the Iranian Kowsar-88 basic jet trainer made its first flight at the Islamic Republic of Iran Air Force‘s (IRIAF’s) Third Tactical Fighter Base at Hamedan (also known as the Martyr Nojeh base), most probably on October 15. Apparently renamed as the Yasin, the aircraft was formally unveiled on October 16 in a ceremony attended by Iran’s defense minister, Brigadier General Ali Hatami, Commander of the Air Force, Brigadier General (pilot) Nasirzadeh, and Vice President for Science and Technology, Surena Stari.

Designed by the Iran Aviation Industries Organization’s Aerospace Research Centre, the aircraft incorporates a number of lessons learned from the failed Ya-Hossein advanced-trainer project, under which Owj produced a succession of designs, starting with the Dorna (Lark), then the Tondar (Thunder), and finally the Tazarv (Pheasant). Many of the Owj Complex engineers and technicians were transferred to the Iran Aircraft Manufacturing Industries Corporation (IAMI, but better known by its Persian acronym, HESA), which was to be responsible for the new program.

Conceptual design of the Kowsar-88 (also known as the Kosar 88) began In December 2007, and resulted in a twin-engine aircraft that bears a passing resemblance to the Taiwanese AIDC AT-3 and the Mikoyan MiG-AT. The program was officially announced in 2013. The aircraft was designed to make maximum use of components from retired Northrop F-5A/B Freedom Fighters, including avionics and hydraulics systems, landing gear, and engines. This promised to reduce program costs and to overcome some of the problems posed by international sanctions. For the first batch of aircraft, the Iranian Air Force provided three RF-5As and six F-5As as donor airframes, and promised to add six two-seat F-5Bs.

Officially, the aircraft is powered by two J90 turbofans, which are described as locally manufactured, reverse-engineered derivatives of the General Electric J85, as used in the F-5A. It seems likely that refurbished J85s are actually installed. There are plans that they may be replaced in the 50 production Yasins by 100 Russian-supplied Salyut AI-222-25F engines, following an agreement signed at the MAKS show in 2017. Plans to equip the aircraft with glass cockpits—each with a HUD, three large MFDs and HOTAS controls—were abandoned when the Chinese contractor involved was deterred by the UN sanctions against Iran.

Work on the construction of the Kowsar-88 prototype began in 2016 after an Iranian request for the procurement of 24 Yak-130 advanced jet trainers was turned down. Originally the aircraft was scheduled to fly in February 2017, but the allocated engines were used in the Qaher F-313 mock-up, and the aircraft was still incomplete when it was unveiled in Tehran on April 15, 2017 and the first flight date slipped to mid-2018. Fast-taxi trials began in April 2018, but the aircraft was not ready in time for its planned debut in August 2018. Instead, a rebuilt Northrop F-5F Azarakhsh II that had been used as an avionics testbed for the Kowsar-88 was unveiled as though it was the ‘Kowsar-1’, leading to a great deal of confusion.

The IRIAF plans to procure 50 production Kowsar-88s as advanced jet trainers and light attack aircraft, with service entry provisionally scheduled for 2023. A 16-aircraft squadron will serve alongside the existing fleet of 11 modernized F-5B Simorghs. If sanctions are withdrawn, Iran plans to procure 24 Yak-130s, and if this happens, the Simorghs will be retired and used as donor airframes for 11 more Kowsar-88s.
https://www.ainonline.com/aviation-news/defense/2019-10-18/iran-flies-new-military-trainer

For real? Which part of the airframe is the same with F-5?

 

[Kastor]

Sorry bro....but i think somehow he is right.......the projects which are related to the artesh will remain project(fotros-zulfiqar tank-sofre mahi).....but some projects which were being done by ministery of defence,have had suspented because of lack of budget(Iranian awacs)

some how??? If the budget was cut, why was it cut, because they wanted to make Iran weak? No!!! Because some moron ex president united the world against us and helped them pass the most harshest sanction regime the world has ever seen.....but of course they don't talk about that moron, they talk about reformers or Rouhani for cutting the budget after the sanctions started biting. This is the kind of dishonesty that riles me up.

 

[QWECXZ]

some how??? If the budget was cut, why was it cut, because they wanted to make Iran weak? No!!! Because some moron ex president united the world against us and helped them pass the most harshest sanction regime the world has ever seen.....but of course they don't talk about that moron, they talk about reformers or Rouhani for cutting the budget after the sanctions started biting. This is the kind of dishonesty that riles me up.

When it comes to cutting the budget, there are priorities. Only a fool would reduce the budget of the MoD when the country has enemies that are flexing their muscles for us every now and then. When your Minister of Foreign Affairs says that the US can disable all of our weapons with just one bomb, or some Advisor to the President says that Iranians cannot compete in producing anything but abgoosht, you can pretty much tell where the Rouhani administration stands with regard to progress in military technology.

And the country's economy did a lot better than now during the time of that moron with 4 rounds of UNSC sanctions that enabled literally every country on the planet to inspect our cargoes in any free water or international airspace. The current US sanctions are not tougher than the sanctions that Iran faced from 2009-2012. Ahmadinejad turned Iran into a regional power and Rouhani did nothing during the 6 years of his catastrophic presidency that is worth mentioning.

And by the way, the reason that Iran's nuclear program was transferred from the IAEA to the UN Security Council was because Iran was blamed for working on plutonium reprocessing in 2003. And that happened during the Khatami administration after signing a deal with the European powers. And guess who signed a similar deal like the JCPOA at that time with the three European powers to settle the issue then? Rouhani. A deal that was supposed to end the nuclear standoff, but not only failed to do so and Iran gained nothing from that deal except promises that were never realized, but resulted in referring the Iran nuclear case to the UN Security Council. As a matter of fact, it was Ahmadinejad who had to deal with the destruction caused by Khatami and Rouhani, not the other way around.

 

[dBSPL]

There are deep burn spots and deformations on junction lines. What is the reason of this? Also note the alignment of the rivets.