Iranians v Afghans v Pakistanis. Economic migrants fight each other at KOS(doorway to Europe)

[VCheng]

I do think that Pakistani attitudes are shifting with respect to Arabs, and the most tangible manifestation of this can be seen in the official and public response to Arab demands for involvement in the Yemen conflict.

How long do you think Pakistan can keep itself insulated from the situation in Yemen?

 

[Saahil84]

Fair enough, no point getting waylaid by anecdotes.

I am extremely sorry they still wont allow me to post links here (mods take note), but I am pasting an article from Dawn:

ISLAMABAD: Over 250,000 illegal Pakistani immigrants have been deported back to the country between January 2009 and October 2014, according to the Foreign Office (FO).

To be continued...

I think from what I have read, most Pakistanis are deported for either arriving without documents or for forged papers. Now I can only assume the "security-related issues" that have led to the rest of the deportations. These second class of cases can only be studied individually - when u google for Pakistan+deportation you will get individual instances on Pakistanis who have been, or are in the process of being deported for involvement in terror activities, etc.

 

[AgNoStiC MuSliM]

How long do you think Pakistan can keep itself insulated from the situation in Yemen?

As long as the economy doesn't come crashing down and/or the GCC doesn't offer a massive financial offset of some kind.

The GCC will obviously dictate terms if an economic crash is involved, but the more interesting situation will be one in which the Pakistani economy continues to function like it is now and the GCC offers billions in aid - does Pakistan accept on its own terms and would it be possible for those terms to satisfy the GCC while continuing to improve our relationship with Iran?

 

[VCheng]

As long as the economy doesn't come crashing down and/or the GCC doesn't offer a massive financial offset of some kind.

The GCC will obviously dictate terms if an economic crash is involved, but the more interesting situation will be one in which the Pakistani economy continues to function like it is now and the GCC offers billions in aid - does Pakistan accept on its own terms and would it be possible for those terms to satisfy the GCC while continuing to improve our relationship with Iran?

Good observation, since Pakistan has the present leeway in its foreign policy due to the crashing oil prices that are helping its economy for the time being. Luckily, energy prices are likely to remain low for quite some time yet, so that will be good for steadying the crumbling economy. How long this reprieve lasts will depend on whether the managers can get the foundations shored up with this windfall, or whether they fritter it away.

 

[Raja.Pakistani]

Man...69 years since the creation of Pakistan and the country sucks so bad that every other day you hear stories about Pakistani migrants seeking asylum or trying to cross the border illegally. Just a couple of days back I was reading the news that there has been a record number of increase in asylum seeker applications from Pakistani nationals to Ireland.

14th August my @ss...only a fool would celebrate the "joyous" occasion.

So group of few Pakistani, Irani and Afghani fighting each others and you jump in bashing Pakistan and suggest we should not celebrate independence day and started singing love songs for India without realizing how many Indians are leaving their country and working in middle east and Europe. There are some deprived people in every developing or poor country who leave country for better opportunities of earning and it don't mean they are hating their motherland if they leave it for better jobs. Economic reasons have always been among the main reasons for migration.You are disgrace to Pakistan as much as these few who are fighting each others on foreign soil. People like you enjoy involving in self pity along with indians and this sri lankan trolls who always bring sharia in every thread

 

[Metanoia]

So group of few Pakistani, Irani and Afghani fighting each others and you jump in bashing Pakistan and suggest we should not celebrate independence day and started singing love songs for India without realizing how many Indians are leaving their country and working in middle east and Europe. There are some deprived people in every developing or poor country who leave country for better opportunities of earning and it don't mean they are hating their motherland if they leave it for better jobs.

Indians go out to get find work...so do Greeks or the Spaniards or the Brits/yanks for better job opportunities....no doubt.

You just went on a typing barrage without realising the fact that Pakistanis here (or everywhere else) are applying for ASYLYUM. Once again....repeat after me....ASYLYUM. Apart from that a very good portion of Pakistanis are also ILLEGAL immigrants all over Europe. Sure there are a lot of illegal immigrants and asylum seekers from countries such as Syria, Iraq or Afghanistan...but they have a valid excuse...there countries have faced decades of war...literally. What is Pakistan's excuse?

 

[Raja.Pakistani]

Indians go out to get find work...so do Greeks or the Spaniards or the Brits/yanks for better job opportunities....no doubt.

You just went on a typing barrage without realising the fact that Pakistanis here (or everywhere else) are applying for ASYLYUM. Once again....repeat after me....ASYLYUM. Apart from that a very good portion of Pakistanis are also ILLEGAL immigrants all over Europe. Sure there are a lot of illegal immigrants and asylum seekers from countries such as Syria, Iraq or Afghanistan...but they have a valid excuse...there countries have faced decades of war...literally. What is Pakistan's excuse?

You should not talk about those things which you have no clue. You are thinking as if everyone can go in Europe or USA or any others developed countries and will apply for asylums and Asylum will be granted to them straight away. No country in Europe is offering asylum visa to Pakistani; Afghani or Irani any other country where there is no political crisis or war or any others religious conflicts. They did offered Asylum in the past during crisis time in Iraq; Afghanistan ; Somalia , kurdish , Pakistani who pretending to be Afghans because of speaking pashtu etc but now you will be deported back to country of your origin if you apply asylum anywhere in Europe.

Secondly illegals immigrant are from every country even from china, India, Afghanistan etc so Pakustani are not exception. People apply asylum whether based on lies or for genuine reason only for getting asylum status which give them full right of work and lead to settelment unlike visitor or student visa where you face many restrictions for work . if they grant you asylum visa then you cannot go back to your country of origin as you claimed that you were not safe in your country but as i said its rare to get this asylum visa these days. This process of deportation take some time as many people destroy their travel documents but once their nationality get confirm then they will be deported by next available flight. Now you should give rest to this self-pity because those people who have no self respect for themselves or for their motherland annoy me most and you will not get any benefit in doing this self pity except thanks and wah wah of some Indians. I am even surprised that @Atanz gave you postive rating for your stupid post

 

[Metanoia]

You should not talk about those things which you have no clue. You are thinking as if everyone can go in Europe or USA or any others developed countries and will apply for asylums and Asylum will be granted to them straight away. No country in Europe is offering asylum visa to Pakistani; Afghani or Irani any other country where there is no political crisis or war or any others religious conflicts. They did offered Asylum in the past during crisis time in Iraq; Afghanistan ; Somalia , kurdish , Pakistani who pretending to be Afghans because of speaking pashtu etc but now you will be deported back to country of your origin if you apply asylum anywhere in Europe.

Secondly illegals immigrant are from every country even from china, India, Afghanistan etc so Pakustani are not exception. People apply asylum whether based on lies or for genuine reason only for getting asylum status which give them full right of work and lead to settelment unlike visitor or student visa where you face many restrictions for work . if they grant you asylum visa then you cannot go back to your country of origin as you claimed that you were not safe in your country but as i said its rare to get this asylum visa these days. This process of deportation take some time as many people destroy their travel documents but once their nationality get confirm then they will be deported by next available flight. Now you should give rest to this self-pity because those people who have no self respect for themselves or for their motherland annoy me most and you will not get any benefit in doing this self pity except thanks and wah wah of some Indians. I am even surprised that @Atanz gave you postive rating for your stupid post

You are just dodging my question. What is Pakistan's excuse for all these asylum seekers when or the extra ordinary number of illegal immigrants? Iraq, Palestine, Afghanistan etc. is all understandable...but why Pakistan?

What are you on about? There has been a record number of asylum seeking application from Pakistani nationals to Ireland...I personally know hundreds of Pakistanis living under asylum in Ireland living on 10 euro per week. You wanna compare the proportion of Pakistanis in such miserable situation to that of Indians? Not a chance....India did have the same problem 8-10 years ago but it's a different story now...a completely different story. Why do you think Srilanka cancelled the visa on arrival policy for the Pakistanis...because they started invading the country in hordes to seek asylum...imagine....Srilanka! And a basic Google search will also give you the numbers on how many people Pakistani Hindus have moved to India.

It is time to look at the mirror buddy...instead of living in your own false bubble.

 

[Indus Pakistan]

You should not talk about those things which you have no clue. You are thinking as if everyone can go in Europe or USA or any others developed countries and will apply for asylums and Asylum will be granted to them straight away. No country in Europe is offering asylum visa to Pakistani; Afghani or Irani any other country where there is no political crisis or war or any others religious conflicts. They did offered Asylum in the past during crisis time in Iraq; Afghanistan ; Somalia , kurdish , Pakistani who pretending to be Afghans because of speaking pashtu etc but now you will be deported back to country of your origin if you apply asylum anywhere in Europe.

Secondly illegals immigrant are from every country even from china, India, Afghanistan etc so Pakustani are not exception. People apply asylum whether based on lies or for genuine reason only for getting asylum status which give them full right of work and lead to settelment unlike visitor or student visa where you face many restrictions for work . if they grant you asylum visa then you cannot go back to your country of origin as you claimed that you were not safe in your country but as i said its rare to get this asylum visa these days. This process of deportation take some time as many people destroy their travel documents but once their nationality get confirm then they will be deported by next available flight. Now you should give rest to this self-pity because those people who have no self respect for themselves or for their motherland annoy me most and you will not get any benefit in doing this self pity except thanks and wah wah of some Indians. I am even surprised that @Atanz gave you postive rating for your stupid post

I did. You know why? I was angry at our leaders. There is nothing special about me. The only differance is I jumped off the boat earlier. I could have been there with those boys fighting. My heart goes to these guy's. They leave their familes and their homes in the hope of getting better paid jobs so they can send money back home to their families. In fact the remittances from non resident Pakistani's is what keeps Pakistan going.

But the fact that our brothers have to suffer and do this hurts me. They are my people. Who do I blame but our stupid governments. I know India is not any better. In fact it is worse. Studies have shown the migrants are not the poorest in their countries because they need to put up money to go abroad,

In India the poor are in such poverty that they can't even dream of putting up the money to leave. The most they can do is catch a bus to some shanty town in Mumbai or Kolkatta.

But all that does not change my anger on seeing my people suffer. Who do I blame? Did nature or Allah make us to suffer like this? No, I blame our corrupt useless governments.

Pakistan let these boys down. Period.

Ps. I know some here in UK and I always do my best to help them out.

 

[Skywalker]

You are just dodging my question. What is Pakistan's excuse for all these asylum seekers when or the extra ordinary number of illegal immigrants? Iraq, Palestine, Afghanistan etc. is all understandable...but why Pakistan?

What are you on about? There has been a record number of asylum seeking application from Pakistani nationals to Ireland...I personally know hundreds of Pakistanis living under asylum in Ireland living on 10 euro per week. You wanna compare the proportion of Pakistanis in such miserable situation to that of Indians? Not a chance....India did have the same problem 8-10 years ago but it's a different story now...a completely different story. Why do you think Srilanka cancelled the visa on arrival policy for the Pakistanis...because they started invading the country in hordes to seek asylum...imagine....Srilanka! And a basic Google search will also give you the numbers on how many people Pakistani Hindus have moved to India.

It is time to look at the mirror buddy...instead of living in your own false bubble.

You not gonna listen, right? The problem with your kind is they move around in a wrong circle and think everything else is same, a retard like you will never understand the dynamics wether it's positive or negative, most of the afghani Pashtun speaking under the disguise so of Pakistanis are unfortunately using Pakistani passports to roam around and whenever they get the opportunity they just disgrace Pakistan and you are one of them, unfortunately your bringing might have done around benefit eaters.

 

[Metanoia]

You not gonna listen, right? The problem with your kind is they move around in a wrong circle and think everything else is same, a retard like you will never understand the dynamics wether it's positive or negative, most of the afghani Pashtun speaking under the disguise so of Pakistanis are unfortunately using Pakistani passports to roam around and whenever they get the opportunity they just disgrace Pakistan and you are one of them, unfortunately your bringing might have done around benefit eaters.

My thickheaded compatriot....now all of a sudden they've all turned Afghanis using Pakistani passports? Do you realise how conspirational and myopic you sound? Hadd hoti hai yaar. But I agree in a sense...Pakistani passport is so cheap that literally anyone can buy it...it's cheap.

They are Pakistanis with the majority being from Punjab....except the ones seeking asylum in India as majority of them are from Sindh. Open YouTube and check out the documentaries on asylum seekers in Europe...most of the Pakistanis interviewed but genuine Pakistanis who are going through hell to seek asylum due to the fact that Pakistan is a pathetic country.

You've also constantly dodged my question...the Iraqis, Palestinians, Syrians, and the Afghans have a genuine reason for having such a high volume of asylum seekers and illegal immigrants....what is Pakistan's excuse for the past 69 years?

@Atanz it's funny how I've been accused of making fun of these poor blokes by some other members going through such humiliation and hell because of their retarded country. I guess people can not empathise anymore.

I've to disagree with you on one bit...I genuinely think Pakistan's situation is worse than India's. You've Pakistani nationals moving to India or Srilanka but not the other way round. Why do you think it's like that? As Milton Friedman said...people vote with their feet.

 

[Indus Pakistan]

My thickheaded compatriot....now all of a sudden they've all turned Afghanis using Pakistani passports? Do you realise how conspirational and myopic you sound? Hadd hoti hai yaar. But I agree in a sense...Pakistani passport is so cheap that literally anyone can buy it...it's cheap.

They are Pakistanis with the majority being from Punjab....except the ones seeking asylum in India as majority of them are from Sindh. Open YouTube and check out the documentaries on asylum seekers in Europe...most of the Pakistanis interviewed but genuine Pakistanis who are going through hell to seek asylum due to the fact that Pakistan is a pathetic country.

You've also constantly dodged my question...the Iraqis, Palestinians, Syrians, and the Afghans have a genuine reason for having such a high volume of asylum seekers and illegal immigrants....what is Pakistan's excuse for the past 69 years?

@Atanz it's funny how I've been accused of making fun of these poor blokes by some other members going through such humiliation and hell because of their retarded country. I guess people can not empathise anymore.

I've to disagree with you on one bit...I genuinely think Pakistan's situation is worse than India's. You've Pakistani nationals moving to India or Srilanka but not the other way round. Why do you think it's like that? As Milton Friedman said...people vote with their feet.

First of all I empathize with those guys. It could easily have been me. Trust me it is these guy's that are keeping Pakistan going. The aggregate ex Pak community spread across the world is what keeps Pakistan going. Check out the remittances figures which this year which will go well over $20 billion. This is more than any industry in Pakistan. So truth be told the biggest industry in Pakistan is the expat Pakistani's sending money home. Something that those back in Pakistan should bloody acknowledge.

No, I disagree with you over India. You see poverty is funny old thing. Underpaid jobs or underemployment makes you go abroad using whatever tricks to get to places where you canearn more money for your labour. In other words this articulates mobility and this group can pay for it.

However extreme poverty on the other hand destroys a person ability to even think beyond the next day. It absolutely retards mobility. The extremely impoverished will try to beg out his next meal. Not buy passports, buy clothes, buy corrupt officials, buy place with people smugglers, buy false documents all of which will cost lakhs of Rupees. I have had some people approach me about running a racket where figures like £5,000 per person were mentioned.

If you check the statistics India has more extreme poverty, I mean the extreme debilitating poverty that would impede them from even moving to the next city let alone continents then even Sub Saharan Africa. This is fact. There must be 100 million if not more in Indiain this group. I have yet to to see one Indian in UK belonging to this group.

In UK most Indian's in my neck of the woods are Sikh, many recent arrivals. We know Indian Punjab is one of the most prosperous? So what gives? On the other hand Indian Bihar is the most poorest. I have yet to run into Indian Bihari in UK. The reason is their poverty is so extreme that it prevents them from even thinking of heading to Europe.

In other words the migrants you see are a special cohort and are not the poorest by any measure. We all know people smugglers charge at least £2,500 per person.

As regards the "people from Sindh" voting with their feet to India these have to be treated as special case. They are moving because of political discrimination on account of being Hindu. They are no per se economic migrants.

As regards Europe all states that people are leaving are to blame. Syrians can blame their country for having collapsed, ditto Afghans, ditto Pakistani. Of course they all have a reason but the bottom line is what matters.

Indian states worse off than 26 poorest African countries
More of world's poor live in India than in all sub-Saharan Africa, says study | World news | The Guardian

 

[Skywalker]

My thickheaded compatriot....now all of a sudden they've all turned Afghanis using Pakistani passports? Do you realise how conspirational and myopic you sound? Hadd hoti hai yaar. But I agree in a sense...Pakistani passport is so cheap that literally anyone can buy it...it's cheap.

They are Pakistanis with the majority being from Punjab....except the ones seeking asylum in India as majority of them are from Sindh. Open YouTube and check out the documentaries on asylum seekers in Europe...most of the Pakistanis interviewed but genuine Pakistanis who are going through hell to seek asylum due to the fact that Pakistan is a pathetic country.

You've also constantly dodged my question...the Iraqis, Palestinians, Syrians, and the Afghans have a genuine reason for having such a high volume of asylum seekers and illegal immigrants....what is Pakistan's excuse for the past 69 years?

@Atanz it's funny how I've been accused of making fun of these poor blokes by some other members going through such humiliation and hell because of their retarded country. I guess people can not empathise anymore.

I've to disagree with you on one bit...I genuinely think Pakistan's situation is worse than India's. You've Pakistani nationals moving to India or Srilanka but not the other way round. Why do you think it's like that? As Milton Friedman said...people vote with their feet.

I am cent percent sure now that mentally you are not old enough to accept the reality, singling out blaming out Pakistan can only satisfy your false ego, I don't know where you getting these informations from but whoever his filling a thick head like you must be laughing now.

I had a better life in Pakistan, due to some personal reasons I had to take some tough decisions but that does not mean I start hating my motherland unlike some imbecile like you whose got the comprehension problem. You are acting like pakistanies are the only ones who ask for asylum.

 

[Raja.Pakistani]

You are just dodging my question. What is Pakistan's excuse for all these asylum seekers when or the extra ordinary number of illegal immigrants? Iraq, Palestine, Afghanistan etc. is all understandable...but why Pakistan?

What are you on about? There has been a record number of asylum seeking application from Pakistani nationals to Ireland...I personally know hundreds of Pakistanis living under asylum in Ireland living on 10 euro per week. You wanna compare the proportion of Pakistanis in such miserable situation to that of Indians? Not a chance....India did have the same problem 8-10 years ago but it's a different story now...a completely different story. Why do you think Srilanka cancelled the visa on arrival policy for the Pakistanis...because they started invading the country in hordes to seek asylum...imagine....Srilanka! And a basic Google search will also give you e numbers on how many people Pakistani Hindus have moved to India.

It is time to look at the mirror buddy...instead of living in your own false bubble.

You are really naive. I know the reality of my country. I know the reality of those who left this country including myself. Pakistan is a developing country with existence of 68 years so its stupid to compare Pakistan with stable European countries and then ask this question that why some Pakistani are leaving country, claiming asylum or enter illegally in western developed countries. Its obviously for better opportunity of work, for better living standards or for saving some Dollars, Euro and Pound and send them back to your family in Pakistan. Its true particularly for those who belong to labour class and had no skills or those who were so-so in education like myself and were not competent enough to compete with local so escaping was easy option for them I have cousins and friends who are doing better than me in Pakistan and are well settle because of good education or doing hard work in business while i am still relying on monthly wages with zero saving. How did they managed it in Pakistan? They were simply more competent, talented and hard working than me. You have a Afghan enter in your country with empty hand and establish great business even in capital city. Lazy people escape or moan about country because they cannot compete and are not talented enough to make a decent life in Pakistan. You are comparing Pakistan with India so let me show you clear picture of what Pakistan inherited during partition in comparison to India.

Independent Pakistan inherited Indias longest and strategically most problematic borders.The heartland of support for the Muslim League lay in Uttar Pradesh which was not included within Pakistan. At the same time 90% of the subcontinent's industry, and taxable income base remained in India, including the largest cities of Delhi, Bombay and Calcutta. The economy of Pakistan was chiefly agricultural and controlled by feudal elites. Furthermore, at the division of India, Pakistan won a poor share of the colonial governments financial reserves with 23% of the undivided land mass, it inherited only 17.5% of the former governments financial assets. Once the army had been paid, nothing was left over for the purposes of economic development so you see thats where India had edge over Pakistan and then Pakistan had this political instability, Military rules, religious extremism, terrorism and all this wars and conflicts with India, Afghanistan, bangldesh etc so Pakistan has not done bad if we consider all these factors in past which were hurdle in the way of economic progress

I did not dodge your question but i said that you don't know how procedure of asylum work in western countries as they have proper procedure of asylum and they dont offer you asylum unless you prove that you have your life in serious danger in Pakistan or anywhere with evidence or if there is some serious political crisis or war going on in your region and even then there is no guarantee that you will be given permanent asylum or you will not be send back to your country if condition become normal over there. There are many asylum cases where it take even years to decide the outcome ofa case so government support asylum seekers financially until the outcome of their pending asylum applications and once its get rejected then you will be asked to leave the country which happening in most asylum cases. Its not easy any more to enter illegally in European countries and claim asylum after destroying your travel documents. If they give you temporary leave and temporary support then it dont mean that your asylum application will be successful. I know how procedure work because i have been part of it.

Now coming back to your post where you say that you personally know 100 Pakistani who are living under asylum status in Ireland . Total numbers of Pakistani who claimed asylum in Ireland on 2013-2014 were 290 and i dont have any statistics that how many of them actually got the asylum visa because applying asylum dont actually meann getting asylum. Its quiet strange that you been asking the visa status of 100 Pakistani you met lol but now answer my question that they claimed asylum on what basis? You should know because you know them personally so tell us on what grounds they claimed asylum visa? last but not the least try to have some self respect because others will not respect you if you dont have respect for your own country/people/origin.Pakistan or Pakistani have problem dont give you this right to mock Pakistan or to mock feeling of those who celebrate independence

I did. You know why? I was angry at our leaders. There is nothing special about me. The only differance is I jumped off the boat earlier. I could have been there with those boys fighting. My heart goes to these guy's. They leave their familes and their homes in the hope of getting better paid jobs so they can send money back home to their families. In fact the remittances from non resident Pakistani's is what keeps Pakistan going.

But the fact that our brothers have to suffer and do this hurts me. They are my people. Who do I blame but our stupid governments. I know India is not any better. In fact it is worse. Studies have shown the migrants are not the poorest in their countries because they need to put up money to go abroad,

In India the poor are in such poverty that they can't even dream of putting up the money to leave. The most they can do is catch a bus to some shanty town in Mumbai or Kolkatta.

But all that does not change my anger on seeing my people suffer. Who do I blame? Did nature or Allah make us to suffer like this? No, I blame our corrupt useless governments.

Pakistan let these boys down. Period.

Ps. I know some here in UK and I always do my best to help them out.

I don't know how you interpreted his first few posts but he was clearly not criticising the leaders of Pakistan or their incompetency in running the country but instead he was using this incident to mock Pakistan/Pakistani and to insult their feeling of patriotism and their celebration of independence . Pakistani should not feel pride in their country because few (seem less than even 5) people fighting with Iranian or Afghan on foreign soil. Bad mouthing our country certainly will not feed all those poor who are living in our country. Rest you can read my long reply to him because don't want to repeat same points in here . You are free to give anyone positive or negative rating based on your own intellect or perception but i did not expect thanks let alone positive rating for this self-bashing post which is always very easy thing to do