Iranian UAVs | News and Discussions

[PeeD]

The combat variant of the S-121 (likely some S-12X) is the carrier slave to the master S-129 with its long range optical system and communications.
That makes good sense, since Iran is still not producing the Rotax engine for the S-129. The S-121 design on the other hand uses a Iranian made twin wankel motor.

Beside the newly shown S-121 variant that has conformal hardpoints for two Sadid bombs. The propeller driven Saeqhe-1 was shown, carrying also two Sadid bombs. This would be the stealthy variant of the above combo, likely with the S-191 as master for targeting. The external carriage of the two Sadid is kind of a medium-level stealthy strike option.

A formation of only S-191 with two Sadids carried internally would then be the maximum stealth/VLO option. It would also have a faster turn around time due to its jet engine.

It seems the IRGC-ASF has tested a swarm management software here. Calculation the necessary numbers, timing, paths and probably communication relay links needed to meet certain mission parameters and goals.

Expandable swarm based airpower is a key capability. Many tasks of the Army Cobra fleet as well as the IRIAF can be performed by this new force.

People need to realize two points:
1: Many countries can't develop such a capability because the influence and opposition of their air forces and pilot communities.

2: The small size of these drones (S-129 excluded) makes up for many lacks of clean stealth manufacturing philosophy.

The negative point here is the low speed and hence sortie generation, low weapon payload and mainly GPS based weapon guidance. Its potential is reduced in a high intensity/peer-state conflict.

 

[Hack-Hook]

رای نخستین بار تعداد ۵۰ فروند هواپیمای بدون سرنشین تهاجمی ۱۷۰ RQ ایرانی همراه با تعدادی دیگر از پهپادهای تهاجمی و رزمی شرکت کردند.

این برای اولین بار در کشور ما و نیز کشورهای دیگر است که این تعداد پهپاد همزمان در یک عملیات تهاجمی - رزمی، در فاصله بیش از هزار کیلومتر دورتر از هدف همزمان پرواز و در یک زمان مشخص با حضور روی اهداف از پیش تعیین شده آنها را با دقت بالا مورد اصابت قرار داده و منهدم کرد.


Iranian UAVs carried out operations from more than 1,000 km away

https://www.bartarinha.ir/fa/news/842182/رزمایش-پهپادی-الی-بیت-المقدس-۱-برگزار-شد

for gods sake the UAV have a name why every one call it RQ-170 as its a copy of that UAV . RQ UAVs can not carry weapons .

 

[skyshadow]

for gods sake the UAV have a name why every one call it RQ-170 as its a copy of that UAV . RQ UAVs can not carry weapons .

our journalists are part of the enemy's forces

 

[Hack-Hook]

The combat variant of the S-121 (likely some S-12X) is the carrier slave to the master S-129 with its long range optical system and communications.

well this combination have serrious flaw , anything happen to S-129 those S-121 will have serious problem finishing the mission

 

[skyshadow]

https://twitter.com/x/status/1106153163604848643

 

[PeeD]

well this combination have serrious flaw , anything happen to S-129 those S-121 will have serious problem finishing the mission

There is one truth: Iran has no communication satellite in orbit.
Russian or Chinese channels granted to Iran can't be regarded as secure.

The new SATCOM variant of the S-129 could be instead a long range, line of sight, directional data-link.

You would need one S-129 in the target area, and another near home. The communication relay created could bridge significant distance, up to several hundreds of km.
This exercise was stated as 1000-1200km distance (distance to Israel). This sounds to large for such a link but 600km would certainly be in the realm of possibility. However I don't have enough info in this field to go beyond that.

This concept would also mean that the communication S-129 could still be 50-100km behind the drone that does the targeting and the swarm that would do the bombing. Even if taken out, the swarm would just do an automatic static bombing of pre-programmed targets or return back home on autopilot.

Infact SATCOM is still many years away, why should the IRGC-ASF already now field such a S-129 variant of long range directional air data-link was not the goal?

Ok some notes:
The S-191 in the exercise have their bomb-bay door disassembled: Maybe the RCS was too low for them to be tracked by ground radar (concerning airspace safety regulations).

Seems that 20 S-12X bombers were used
8-10 S-191
4? S-129 (two with directional data-link?)
5? prop-Saehge, probably higher in numbers
and at least 2 older low-end Sadeq.

So its close the the number of 50. All apparently from one small base.
In terms of firepower this results in 80-100 Sadid variants and soft targets killed.

 

[Mithridates]

There is one truth: Iran has no communication satellite in orbit.
Russian or Chinese channels granted to Iran can't be regarded as secure.

The new SATCOM variant of the S-129 could be instead a long range, line of sight, directional data-link.

You would need one S-129 in the target area, and another near home. The communication relay created could bridge significant distance, up to several hundreds of km.
This exercise was stated as 1000-1200km distance (distance to Israel). This sounds to large for such a link but 600km would certainly be in the realm of possibility. However I don't have enough info in this field to go beyond that.

This concept would also mean that the communication S-129 could still be 50-100km behind the drone that does the targeting and the swarm that would do the bombing. Even if taken out, the swarm would just do an automatic static bombing of pre-programmed targets or return back home on autopilot.

Infact SATCOM is still many years away, why should the IRGC-ASF already now field such a S-129 variant of long range directional air data-link was not the goal?

Ok some notes:
The S-191 in the exercise have their bomb-bay door disassembled: Maybe the RCS was too low for them to be tracked by ground radar (concerning airspace safety regulations).

Seems that 20 S-12X bombers were used
8-10 S-191
4? S-129 (two with directional data-link?)
5? prop-Saehge, probably higher in numbers
and at least 2 older low-end Sadeq.

So its close the the number of 50. All apparently from one small base.
In terms of firepower this results in 80-100 Sadid variants and soft targets killed.

what if we use larger planes to relay the command posts to drones?? it makes more sense they have more space for larger antennas and power units and this two would increase the outcome range.theoretically they would give us a range of 900km.

 

[PeeD]

what if we use larger planes to relay the command posts to drones?? it makes more sense they have more space for larger antennas and power units and this two would increase the outcome range.theoretically they would give us a range of 900km.

Correct, two drones at 12km altitude would have 900km line of sight. Then add a 50-200 omni-directional link at both ends, to the drones and to the ground station and the potential effective range is 1300km.

Antenna size and power is one way, sensitive receiver and other techniques are other measures to achieve such a 900km range performance.

 

[Hack-Hook]

There is only one problem if we want to use targeting system of s129 then it most be at most 25-30km away there can't be any mountain in line of sight.

 

[PeeD]

There is only one problem if we want to use targeting system of s129 then it most be at most 25-30km away there can't be any mountain in line of sight.

For targeting from lets say, safe 12km altitude, you need quite good TI and optics, add distance to it and it increases to around 20km. For such optics you need space and payload capability. Small drones can't carry such optics. A S-191 that carries targeting optics, likely won't carry bombs, to loiter the region and stay on station. High altitude capable optics probably won't fit into a S-191 anyway, not to talk about stand-off targeting.

So the swarm chain looks like this: A ground station with omni-directional data link to a (pseudo) "SATCOM" S-129 that flys in 200km distance to it.
That S-129 links up via its directional antenna to a same variant S-129 at 900km distance.
That S-129 establishes a omni-directional link to a "non-SATCOM" older S-129 variant with targeting payload at 100km distance.
That S-129 then has omni-directional link to the whole swarm that is 10km ahead of it bombing the target.

The distance sum would be 1210km.

My criticism on the fragile nature of such a swarm in a previous post here has a solution:

- Speed must improve.

- Higher survivability must be achieved via higher grade stealth

- Runway must be eliminated

- All GPS related systems must be eliminated

What would such a robust swarm based airpower require?

- A platform based on the vehicle launched S-191.

- TERCOM navigation and optical/INS based bomb guidance

- Frequency hopping, directional LPI data-link

- The directional link relay function of the lastest S-129 must be somehow integrated into the smaller and lower power S-191 platform.

Such a future swarm could then even be used effectively in a high intensity peer-level conflict.
Such a capability could in fact even contest US airpower.
Keeping the IRIAF at its current low state could have been the key to allow for such a drastic doctrine change.

I think a mind like Manouchehr Manteghi might be behind this development... remember that his first serious project (80's), the TOW/Toophan is responsible for this 25kg Sadid micro bomb today (TOW airframe).

 

[Persian Gulf 1906]

why no s-171 in these drills? would be nice to see it

 

[Sineva]

why no s-171 in these drills? would be nice to see it

Glad to see you back,I thought they might`ve banned you again.

 

[Persian Gulf 1906]

Glad to see you back,I thought they might`ve banned you again.

mob mentality on this forum is very strong...

 

[Aramagedon]

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[Arminkh]

Iran, hands down, is now the pioneer of drone warfare! Such operation using so many drones at the same time is unprecedented!

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Maybe Iran is using Antman?!!