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Iranian Space program

From what I understand, Sarir was Simorgh with a redesigned second stage.

Simorgh’s failure (other than cluster nodong 1st stage) was a weak unreliable 2nd stage.
Simorgh was not a failure. Iran just didn't have a test stand to test engines in vacuum, so they launched Simorgh into space to check how engines work in vacuum and if they fail, correct the next version of Simorgh based on telemetry data.

So they made vacuum tests of engines in real space launches due to lack of a vacuum test stand.

Hope they got enough telemetry data from previous "failures" to make Simorgh work next time.
 
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Simorgh was not a failure. Iran just didn't have a test stand to test engines in vacuum, so they launched Simorgh into space to check how engines work in vacuum and if they fail, correct next version of Simorgh based on telemetry data.

So they made vacuum tests of engines in real space launches due to lack of a vacuum test stand.

Hope they got enough telemetry data from previous "failures" to make Simorgh work next time.
the launch were failure not test , do you knew how many satellite we lost in those tests , the problem mainly was with second stage , it was weak for what it was supposed to do
 
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Simorgh was not a failure. Iran just didn't have a test stand to test engines in vacuum, so they launched Simorgh into space to check how engines work in vacuum and if they fail, correct next version of Simorgh based on telemetry data.

So they made vacuum tests of engines in real space launches due to lack of a vacuum test stand.

Hope they got enough telemetry data from previous "failures" to make Simorgh work next time.

Engines didn’t fail due to vaccum of space. The payload never reached proper velocity thus did not make insertion. That is directly due to weak 2nd stage.

Add in the fact you are using a 4x cluster of no-dong for first stage. You have multiple failure points in the design.

The entire problem with Iranian space program from 2008-2020 was lack of powerful engines. Only now are “newer” engines coming out. But payload weight is still severely lacking.

By 2028 Iran’s space program will be 20+ years old and it may very well still be stuck launching micro sats into LEO. A far cry from Ahmadinejad’s human sub orbital flight by 2018. (These plans were cancelled after projected costs for such a program would cost 15-20B dollars)

So unless there is a major breakthrough in next 5 years by ISA, all hope lies on IRGC who is also on a slow timeline (but much faster than ISA).

Funding is def an issue. The cost of building larger more powerful SLVs cost money and Iran simply does not have the extra $$$ to throw at a space program. Notice all the major countries with major space programs have MUCH larger economies than Iran (EU, USA, China, India, Russia, Japan).

It’s a shame because space race will set the tone for next 250+ years. If you’re a country that will have to rely on others to launch your satellites and go to the moon and explore the solar system then you will be at a huge disadvantage for space mining. Which is going to be trillions of dollars of resources locked up in asteroids, moons, and other objects.

Iran will eventually need to devote major resources to space by 2040 if it doesn’t want to fall too far behind China-Russia-India who are trying to catch up to US and it’s private space sector.
 
Engines didn’t fail due to vaccum of space. The payload never reached proper velocity thus did not make insertion. That is directly due to weak 2nd stage.

Add in the fact you are using a 4x cluster of no-dong for first stage. You have multiple failure points in the design.

The entire problem with Iranian space program from 2008-2020 was lack of powerful engines. Only now are “newer” engines coming out. But payload weight is still severely lacking.

By 2028 Iran’s space program will be 20+ years old and it may very well still be stuck launching micro sats into LEO. A far cry from Ahmadinejad’s human sub orbital flight by 2018. (These plans were cancelled after projected costs for such a program would cost 15-20B dollars)

So unless there is a major breakthrough in next 5 years by ISA, all hope lies on IRGC who is also on a slow timeline (but much faster than ISA).

Funding is def an issue. The cost of building larger more powerful SLVs cost money and Iran simply does not have the extra $$$ to throw at a space program. Notice all the major countries with major space programs have MUCH larger economies than Iran (EU, USA, China, India, Russia, Japan).

It’s a shame because space race will set the tone for next 250+ years. If you’re a country that will have to rely on others to launch your satellites and go to the moon and explore the solar system then you will be at a huge disadvantage for space mining. Which is going to be trillions of dollars of resources locked up in asteroids, moons, and other objects.

Iran will eventually need to devote major resources to space by 2040 if it doesn’t want to fall too far behind China-Russia-India who are trying to catch up to US and it’s private space sector.
I agree that the future is in Space.....Eventually, with introduction of large reusable SLVs that can put 150 tons of payload into orbit there are serious possibilities that superpowers will deploy military assets in space by the middle of this century...think of "Rods from God" project for example.

Iran says Souroush-1, with ability to put 8tons into LEO, will fly by 2029 and Souroush-2 with 15tons payload into LEO will fly by 2032.....Eventually, Iran will have to build a large reusable SLV by 2045 if it wants to remain competitive.
 
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I remember when I shared OSINT satellite imagery suggesting there had been a failed Qaem launch and the usual suspects here attacked me for baseless speculation sharing Western OSINT

And now a failed second launch of the Qaem-100 in March 2023 has been confirmed.

The first launch in November 2022 tested the new first stage Raafe, this second launch was likely the first real launch carrying the Nahid satellite and something went wrong in the Raafe + Salman combination.
 
Already replacing the Salman engine in 2nd stage after its 2020 unveiling? That is not good.

Pataramesh spoke highly of it. Maybe they are making an elaborated version of it rather than completely replace hence the Q-105 name rather than Q-200 to signal a new generation.

However, if Q-100 struggles to reach enough velocity for orbital insertion of a mere 50kg micro satellite at 300KM LEO then that’s not a good sign.

Maybe it’s better for future missiles (BM) to extend range rather than a SLV. Or in an SLV design use it in a 3 stage.

My 2 cents.
 
I remember when I shared OSINT satellite imagery suggesting there had been a failed Qaem launch and the usual suspects here attacked me for baseless speculation sharing Western OSINT

And now a failed second launch of the Qaem-100 in March 2023 has been confirmed.

The first launch in November 2022 tested the new first stage Raafe, this second launch was likely the first real launch carrying the Nahid satellite and something went wrong in the Raafe + Salman combination.

The issue is Iran is trying to do what Israel and India have not been able to do: build a 3 stage Small SLV for LEO.

Zoljaneh = 3 stages
Ghaem-100 = 3 stages
Simorgh = 2 stages

Israel Shavit-2 = 4 stages

India’s first attempt at SLV: 4 stages (high failure rate = scrapped).

Now 50+ years later India is trying again with a small SLV to carry 500kg to LEO. Result: 2 launches = 50% failure rate.

Space X Falcon 9 = cryogenic engines thus cannot compare. Iran’s Bahman cryogenic engine is supposedly in r&d. Would be shocked to see it before 2030 at this rate of development.

China’s Long Mach 3 is a 3 stage but its first stage has almost 3000 kN of thrust compared to Zuljanah 725kN and Ghaem-100 ~675kN. So Iran’s our vastly underpowered in 1st stage alone let alone in the rest.

Look at the Older Long Mach 2 (~2700 kN 1st stage) and even older Long Mach 1 (~1100-1200kN 1st stage) still dwarf Iranian SLVs respectively in power.

Conclusion: Iran is trying to do something that has not been done before by the newer space powers (Israel, India, China): reliably build a 3 stage SLV using sub 1000kN 1st and 2nd stage.

These SLVs are significantly underpowered (hence the low payloads) and are not very scalable designs.


Solution: Either slap on 2-4 liquid boosters or wait for an engine that can produce ~1500-2000kN of force in 1st stage (either alone or cluster’d).

If you cluster 3 Rafae engines in first stage that produces almost 2000kN of force. Then use 2 Rafae in second stage and you should have enough for a heavy LEO SLV. Again I’m not an engineer so I don’t know if it is possible to cluster the Rafae engine easily since it’s solid fuel.

Until then failures will continue.
 
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Already replacing the Salman engine in 2nd stage after its 2020 unveiling? That is not good.
The plan was always to replace Salman in Qaem-105, see from January 2023 (before the failed Qaem-100 launch in March 2023):


My question is how and why they are planning to move to the Qaem-105 in the next 7 months (allegedly this year) before they had a successful launch of the Qaem-100. But that was also the plan according to that tweet from January, so who knows.

It's too early to cast doubt on the IRGC program: not many SLVs are successful on their first ever orbital launch attempt. Iran does indeed need larger engines or boosters, I think the new upgraded Sarir model (with the 4 boosters) indicates they are aware of that. The bottleneck appears to be in diameter of solid fuel engines - currently capped at 1.5m, which is much smaller than other successful SLVs.
 
India’s first attempt at SLV: 4 stages (high failure rate = scrapped).
SLV was more of a technology demonstrator, what were we going to do by launching 40kg to space the payload was not meaningful enough.
Also it had just 4 launches
2 were successes and 2 were failures.


Now 50+ years later India is trying again with a small SLV to carry 500kg to LEO. Result: 2 launches = 50% failure rate.
SSLV is being made with a different goal in mind, it is more of a launch on demand rocket to provide frequent launches, the launch vehicle's technology is offered to private sector companies so that they can compete in the global launch on demand market.


It's a 3 stage solid propellent based launch vehicle that can be manufactured in less than 2 week and can be launched by just 6 people.

Capabilities are 500kg to LEO and 330 kg to SSO.
 
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