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Iranian Space program

We can't be sure of that. Russia almost gave India engine tech in the early 1990s :


So it is very possible that Russia has collaborated with North Korea.

You actually made my point.

Russia “almost” did something in its most desperate hour (post soviet fall chaos) and still refrained from it given how desperate it was. Even when it was selling high tech arms to the highest bidders it still refrained from giving away soviet era engine tech.

More recent example: Russia-India joint funding of SU-57.

What did India get in terms of ToT? Next to nothing.

So this idea that Russia just handed over RD-250 ToT is highly unlikely. Not to mention North Korea couldn’t even afford such an asking price with its limited resources.
(This is a country that had to negotiate for concessions in form of food and gasoline during nuke negotiations in the 2000’s).
 
It’s highly unlikely North Korea would have the the infrastructure/funding to reverse RD-250 on their own. Even with blueprints it will take a long time. These are literally rocket engines.

It took Iran 20+ years to reverse a cruise missile like KH-55 and even now it doesn’t build the same engine at similar cost ratio and performance level. Hence why we have so many different variations of it.

While it’s not impossible Chinese state is backing them and aiding them, another possibility we should consider is retired soviet era Chinese scientists aiding North Koreans alongside a far more subtle Chinese state effort to see the jump in Missile development we saw.

After all, if you are a retired Chinese scientist who has worked on Russian engines back in the day and North Korea offers you millions to aid them on a project, will you turn it down?

Chinese state themselves would be against an ICBM capable North Korea because it would give US the excuse to start installing more missile interceptors near Chinese Mainlnd, just like they used the “Iranian missile threat to Europe” to place interceptors in Poland against Russia.

no way. those scientists would required the permission of the chinese government to work for another country in such a project(as is the standard procedure everywhere when it comes to high tech technologies). and china isnt so poor that it cannot pay its scientists so they have to go work for another government, especially NK, which is not exactly known for its prosperity.
 
Yes,iran should be looking to acquire the paektusan/rd250 engine from the dprk [assuming that it hasnt already] as this would provide iran with the basis for an slv with a multi-ton to leo payload capability.It would also be a much better bet than fvcking around with the 4d10 engine from the khorramshahr like the dprk did,which is really irans only other liquid fueled engine choice at the present,tho one possibility would be to use the 4d10 in a redesigned first stage for the simorgh,however when one considers the simorghs lack of any real long term development potential,nevermind its poor record of reliability,it just doesnt seem worth it frankly.
Unrelated but are you from DPRK? If so, my deepest respects to you. I'm a great fan of your country and have nothing but fond feelings towards it.

I always remember the invaluable assistance Pyongyang provided in the war against the iraqis and the missile technology transfers. Looking forward to seeing korea reunited under Juche - your victory is our victory as well!

🇮🇷 🤝 🇰🇵

 
no way. those scientists would required the permission of the chinese government to work for another country in such a project(as is the standard procedure everywhere when it comes to high tech technologies). and china isnt so poor that it cannot pay its scientists so they have to go work for another government, especially NK, which is not exactly known for its prosperity.

They would be retired scientists who worked on RD-250 back in the day. Not current scientists with sensitive info on current Chinese tech.

There are retired Iranian scientists living in Iran right now who worked on engines used in F-16 and F-35 and other sensitive tech according to a former user on here who had experience in that sector.

You cannot stop a retired scientist from moving to other countries...that is proposterous. Sure maybe if he worked in Area 51 or a secret black project. Not on a rocket engine 30-40 years ago or a jet engine.

North Korea steals tens of millions if not hundreds of millions of dollars via crypto hacks. So they have more than enough funds to pay a scientists millions in exchange for a working ICBM platform.
 
Simorgh's problems have been addressed with the second and third stages - it's very nearly ready to go now.

However, the problem is that the payload will be restricted to 300 kg maximum. And that isn't NEARLY good enough, I'm afraid.

Unless it can put a 2 tonne payload into LEO, it's worthless as a workhorse SLV.
Yes,the simorgh has no real further development potential.
An rd250 based slv,say something along the lines of an iranian tsyklon-3 equivalent,on the other hand could put up at least 4 tons into leo,a 4m diameter version with 4 rd250s could probably put up 5 and a half tons plus and if you added solid boosters then you could put up even larger payloads.
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Speaking of boosters,I am very surprised tho`,that iran has not [yet] experimented with using expendable solid fuel boosters,as it has several excellent solid fueled missile motors that could be easily adapted for this task.
 
Speaking of boosters,I am very surprised tho`,that iran has not [yet] experimented with using expendable solid fuel boosters,as it has several excellent solid fueled missile motors that could be easily adapted for this task.

They are planned for the much larger SLVs.

It’s not as easy as slapping fateh-110 on a Simorgh to push it further.

The issue is they just show off these toy SLV models and give us vague timelines. We hear next to nothing about the liquid engine development happening on the ISA side.

IRGC is sticking to solid based SLVs and we know from Shahrud there are big engines being test there. Again no news.

As for Tehrani Moghadam’s Qaem. It was supposedly finished in 2010 after it had its last successful engine test. Yet 12 years later we only see toy models.

I think the problem is lack of a central figure like Tehrani to handle the project management and decision making process to move things along.
 
NK was given that engine tech likely by China. For years they couldn’t have a successful engine tech. Remember the disaster that was Tapedong-2 and 3?

Nonsense. They designed/developed/tested/qualified/flight tested the engines themselves. This is no longer the same NK that was struggling with Unha-2/3 in late 2000s. While iran has stagnated in this field NK has invested heavily in R&D efforts and they have started to payoff in recent years.

Simorgh's problems have been addressed with the second and third stages - it's very nearly ready to go now.

What is your source for this. Would be very interested to see what they changed. After 6 back to back failures was pretty sure at this point Simorgh was not a feasible SLV system.

However, the problem is that the payload will be restricted to 300 kg maximum. And that isn't NEARLY good enough, I'm afraid.

For a country like Iran which has yet to send anything heavier than 52kg into orbit (Fajr in February 2015) 300kg is more than enough to build experimental satellites to learn and gain experience.
 
Nonsense. They designed/developed/tested/qualified/flight tested the engines themselves. This is no longer the same NK that was struggling with Unha-2/3 in late 2000s. While iran has stagnated in this field NK has invested heavily in R&D efforts and they have started to payoff in recent years.



What is your source for this. Would be very interested to see what they changed. After 6 back to back failures was pretty sure at this point Simorgh was not a feasible SLV system.



For a country like Iran which has yet to send anything heavier than 52kg into orbit (Fajr in February 2015) 300kg is more than enough to build experimental satellites to learn and gain experience.

A correction here:
Iran placed Salman motor (900 kg per Brugge but might be less) into orbit.

That was not just a stage, it was a payload in reality.
 
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Iran placed Salman motor (900 kg per Brugge but might be less) into orbit.
Salman is second stage of Qased SLV so it does not reach orbit. Iran put the third stage of that rocket a solid motor called Arash-24 into orbit. Its mass is only around 100kg. Upper stages are useless once orbit is achieved it is the mass of the satellite that matters.
 
What is your source for this. Would be very interested to see what they changed. After 6 back to back failures was pretty sure at this point Simorgh was not a feasible SLV system.



For a country like Iran which has yet to send anything heavier than 52kg into orbit (Fajr in February 2015) 300kg is more than enough to build experimental satellites to learn and gain experience.
Salam. I'm referring to the chronology of the launches. If you look at the second and third launches, their failures were due to the second and third stages respectively.

Succeeding launches resulted in the SLV failing to deposit the load in LEO by falling slightly short of the necessary speed mark and the latest launch almost succeeded.
 
Salman is second stage of Qased SLV so it does not reach orbit. Iran put the third stage of that rocket a solid motor called Arash-24 into orbit. Its mass is only around 100kg. Upper stages are useless once orbit is achieved it is the mass of the satellite that matters.

What is the definition of orbit?
100 km

Did Salman have 17000 miles per hour speed at 250 km?
It is tricky that I count it also as a payload too. No exaggeration

It is still questionable if the third stage is Arash. Just a kick motor as far as we know.
 
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Tge re-writing of Iran's space program at the end point / study phase of the Chabahar National Launch Base was done
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The head of the Iranian Space Agency, noting that the meeting of the Supreme Space Council was held after an 11-year hiatus, said: "The rewriting of Iran's 10-year space program has reached its final stages due to space developments in the world."

According to Mashreghnews, one of the important issues that occurred in the 13th government was the holding of a meeting of the Supreme Space Council. The meeting, which was chaired by the president after an 11-year hiatus, focused on issues such as space acceleration, space convergence and augmentation, the use of all space elements and actors, and maximum attention to space diplomacy.

The meeting of the Supreme Space Council was held after an 11-year break

"Hassan Salarieh," the Deputy Minister of Communications and Information Technology and the head of the Iranian Space Agency, said about the Supreme Space Council: "This council is the highest space policy-making body in Iran." It is chaired by the President and consists of a number of ministers such as the Minister of Communications, the Minister of Science, the Minister of Foreign Affairs and the heads of organizations such as the Budget Program and other institutions.

Explaining that the meeting of the Supreme Space Council was held last year after an 11-year hiatus, he said why such an institution exists: "In our country, various departments such as the Ministry of Defense, IRGC, universities, Ministry of Science and the Space Organization are engaged in the space industry." They are working, and such a council is needed to create coordination between these orgs and to formulate a common policy for the country's space programs.

The Deputy Minister of Communications, stating that the permanent secretariat of the council is now located in the Iranian Space Agency, added: "In this secretariat, program content and policies are prepared for different sections and prevent parallel work in different sections." Inter-group coordination and inter-sectoral service are regulated by this secretariat.

Salarieh added: "The Supreme Space Council is composed of the first-class officials of the country, and due to the busyness of these people, they may not have the opportunity to convene more than twice a year." For this reason, the permanent commission of this council has been established with the presence of the representatives of the members of the High Space Council. The meetings of the commission will be convened in greater numbers if necessary and the issues to be included in the agenda of the High Space Council will be reviewed in advance in this commission.

Formation of 6 specialized working groups under the High Space Council

He pointed out: In order for the commission to have the necessary content, specialized working groups are needed. Specialized working groups are formed in 6 specialized areas under the High Space Council. In the new term, these working groups have been formed since February 2014 and are preparing intellectual content for the next meeting of the Supreme Space Council. The members of these working groups are the main actors of the space industry and the representatives of different specialized fields of the country in the field of space sciences and technologies.

The Deputy Minister of Communications said that the working groups work in the field of launchers and launch-related infrastructure and in satellite orbit, satellite technologies and its infrastructure, space science and exploration, regulation, diplomacy and space law, and space applications and services.

The head of the country's space organization pointed out: Now the main task of the working groups is to review the country's 10-year space plan. We have two 10 space programs for the years 84-94 and 94-1404, the second of which was approved by the Standing Committee of the High Space Council but did not reach the council. This program is mainly related to the 11 years that the council was not formed.

"Given that the space industry and knowledge is constantly evolving and changing, it is not possible to move forward on the basis of a mere 10-year plan without receiving feedback on the advances and developments in space science and technology in the world," Salarieh said. Regular review and updating of the program is a must.

He stressed: "Parts of the plans that were intended for the horizon of 1404, have not been implemented and there are other parts that must be changed now, given the progress of the space field." Another case is the new technologies in the field of space, such as satellite systems and microsatellites, which were not mentioned in the previous program.

The rewriting of the 10-year space plan has reached its end

The head of the space agency said: "According to the set of these factors, we have started reviewing the 10-year space plan of Iran, which was compiled in 1994." A plan for the horizon of 1401 to 1410 is being prepared, which has been composed of about 40 sessions since February of last year, and the rewriting of the plan has now almost reached its end.

Regarding the process of reviewing Iran's 10-year space plan, Salarieh said: "We started the review work by finding the needs that existed in this area." Once the needs are identified, we plan to address them. Part of the needs are met through the purchase, supply and receipt of services from abroad and the other part through domestic technologies. In addition, we look to the future and make goals that are close to the global advances in the space industry and global orientations.

He said about the progress plans of Iran's space industry: "Design and construction of measurement satellites, telecommunication satellites, telecommunication microsatellites and measurement satellites (SAR / radar) and stabilization of indigenous launcher technology are among the most important programs of the country's space industry."

"The development of space applications is of great importance," he said. An important issue is the development of space applications and the development of space economics.

"Using the applications of satellites, many platforms can be developed so that people can take advantage of them as end-users, such as a system that uses satellite imagery for agricultural or disaster management," Salarieh said. We anticipate launching 30 systems to serve governments, executive bodies and businesses by the end of the 10-year horizon. Currently, 10 systems with the same applications are active or in the development stage, and we intend to increase its number.

The Deputy Minister of Communications emphasized: "Parts of the plans that were intended for the horizon of 1404 have not been implemented and there are other parts that must be changed now, given the progress in the field of space." Another case is new technologies in the field of space, such as satellite systems and microsatellites, which were not mentioned in the previous program.

Country's Space Headquarters; A place to meet the needs of space actors

Regarding the approval process of this program, he said: "After reviewing the axes of the 10-year plan in the working group, the project will go to the High Space Council Commission and then to the High Space Council." Our interaction with all departments has been such that we will have no problem approving this program. The approach of the space organization in the new era is such that as the country's space headquarters, it will be a place to meet the needs and requirements of space actors.

The Deputy Minister of Communications added: "Of course, given the budget constraints we have, we can meet some of the needs, not all of them." All the needs envisaged in the 10-year plan may require a budget much higher than the government's investment capacity, but since we know that it is not possible to meet it, we envisage appropriate and feasible solutions for it in the High Space Council without ambiguity.

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The 10-year space program is reviewed every year

The head of the Iranian Space Agency said: "On the other hand, we have a big task and that is to provide the necessary conditions for the private sector to enter by creating and activating a suitable market for space services and technology in the country, but this must be done with the help of all actors." And the members of the High Space Council to be realized, and naturally the space organization has the task of coordinating and defining the role for these actors.

Salarieh stressed that after the approval of the program in the High Space Council, the monitoring and supervision of the implementation of the programs of the council will be examined, he emphasized: also the division of labor between different institutions will be done, resources must be provided. At the same time, I must emphasize that this program is evaluated every year due to the rapid growth of technology, and if necessary, it is reviewed.

He emphasized: We have several satellite companies and institutions in the country with relatively history and specialization. These complexes have a contract with the organization to design and manufacture measurement and telecommunication satellites, and some of the satellites that we have in the launch queue are the result of the previous space program and the output of these traditional and long-established institutions. In the new program, some new institutions will be strengthened to build satellites, especially in the private sector, and traditional actors will be used to develop and build new satellites with higher capabilities; There will also be the possibility of joint work between traditional actors, who are often government-owned and the private sector, to produce a quality product of higher value.

The study phase of Chabahar National Launch Base has been completed

The Deputy Minister of Communications, stating that another branch that has been considered in the plan review program is related to the field of satellite infrastructure, said: The country whose final intention is to build satellites should have equipped laboratories to advance the design, testing and construction of satellites. Another issue is having up-to-date satellite launch bases. We are now seriously planning to launch the Chabahar National Launch Base. Due to its geographical location, this base has the potential to launch solar satellites with various tracks or orbits and slopes, and is therefore very important.

"Our effort is for the Chabahar National Base to be able to provide international services as well," Salarieh said. Chabahar's location on the water border makes it easy to get around and reach, and allows for a wide range of satellite launches. This coverage is very attractive for satellite makers, we have not had such an opportunity to attract cooperation with other countries. The study and design phase of the construction contract for the Chabahar National Launch Base has been completed.

Source: IRNA
 
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