Iranian Navy | News and Discussions

[Arash1991]

from the photo it can be seen that they have also modified the dashboard, they have created a terrace structure that can be used to contain the dashboard for controlling flight activities
View attachment 916110

assuming iran wants to produce an aircraft carrier, what role would this object play in the construct puzzle?

1. I believe that this will primarily be a drone carrier that may also be able to be converted into an aircraft carrier. Similar to the Japanese landing ships or helicopter carriers, which are more similar to aircraft carriers in terms of their dimensions and design and could be converted into them within a short time.

The development of an aircraft carrier is a complex undertaking. It requires an enormous amount of capital, resources and industrial capacity, even for economically strong countries. Planning and construction often take years, if not a decade. On the high seas, an aircraft carrier is very vulnerable on its own, which is why it usually requires a large auxiliary, supply and escort fleet. American carrier fleets, which are usually referred to as task forces, have at least 4 to 6 destroyers and 2 missile cruisers, a fighter submarine and supply ships on board as escort ships. The purpose of an aircraft carrier, unlike destroyers, is primarily the power project of a state. A destroyer, on the other hand, is designed purely for practical use, while aircraft carriers are objects whose mere presence can influence an opponent.

There are two ways for a state to build an aircraft carrier:
First, it can acquire it or it can produce it itself. If you want to produce aircraft carriers yourself, it is not unusual to convert cargo ships into aircraft carriers in order to gain the necessary experience and produce a pure aircraft carrier directly on this basis. This is what almost all aircraft carrier producing nations did in the beginning. India and China initially bought and converted their carriers. Britain and the U.S. initially converted cargo ships into aircraft carriers before producing full-fledged aircraft carriers before World War II and again during World War II.
It would not be unusual in the case of Iran to produce aircraft carriers in this way in the future to gain the necessary experience. As already mentioned, an aircraft carrier requires a lot of resources and is associated with enormous costs, so it would not be wrong to first build models with which one can gain experience at low cost. If a nation like Iran wants to build its own aircraft carriers, then a nation like Iran cannot afford to implement a project worth billions of dollars that is fraught with errors due to a lack of experience. The path that Iran is currently taking is the most difficult and expensive of all variants because it takes a lot of time. It would be simpler to buy a carrier and convert or modernize it according to its own needs. But this way is the most sustainable and the way to gain the best practices experience.

Many people speculate that this ship could be a drone carrier. I would see it that way as well, because I find the ship's bridge very disturbing. In terms of length (240 meters) and other dimensions, the ship would certainly be suitable for accommodating at least 20 fighter aircraft.
Even if this ship is certainly declared as a drone carrier, I still believe that the planners of this project have the construction of an aircraft carrier in mind and will pursue this goal in the next steps. I suspect that this ship could probably be completed by 2024 and then be tested on the high seas for 1 or 2 years and in 2026 the construction of an aircraft carrier can be started. If there are no planning difficulties. Building an aircraft carrier is a very complex undertaking and in practice has taken between 8 and 12 years. (8 years for the Americans and British and 12 for the Indians). Presumably, an Iranian aircraft carrier would be completed in 2035 if such a project were pursued.

 

[Stryker1982]

assuming iran wants to produce an aircraft carrier, what role would this object play in the construct puzzle?

1. I believe that this will primarily be a drone carrier that may also be able to be converted into an aircraft carrier. Similar to the Japanese landing ships or helicopter carriers, which are more similar to aircraft carriers in terms of their dimensions and design and could be converted into them within a short time.

The development of an aircraft carrier is a complex undertaking. It requires an enormous amount of capital, resources and industrial capacity, even for economically strong countries. Planning and construction often take years, if not a decade. On the high seas, an aircraft carrier is very vulnerable on its own, which is why it usually requires a large auxiliary, supply and escort fleet. American carrier fleets, which are usually referred to as task forces, have at least 4 to 6 destroyers and 2 missile cruisers, a fighter submarine and supply ships on board as escort ships. The purpose of an aircraft carrier, unlike destroyers, is primarily the power project of a state. A destroyer, on the other hand, is designed purely for practical use, while aircraft carriers are objects whose mere presence can influence an opponent.

There are two ways for a state to build an aircraft carrier:
First, it can acquire it or it can produce it itself. If you want to produce aircraft carriers yourself, it is not unusual to convert cargo ships into aircraft carriers in order to gain the necessary experience and produce a pure aircraft carrier directly on this basis. This is what almost all aircraft carrier producing nations did in the beginning. India and China initially bought and converted their carriers. Britain and the U.S. initially converted cargo ships into aircraft carriers before producing full-fledged aircraft carriers before World War II and again during World War II.
It would not be unusual in the case of Iran to produce aircraft carriers in this way in the future to gain the necessary experience. As already mentioned, an aircraft carrier requires a lot of resources and is associated with enormous costs, so it would not be wrong to first build models with which one can gain experience at low cost. If a nation like Iran wants to build its own aircraft carriers, then a nation like Iran cannot afford to implement a project worth billions of dollars that is fraught with errors due to a lack of experience. The path that Iran is currently taking is the most difficult and expensive of all variants because it takes a lot of time. It would be simpler to buy a carrier and convert or modernize it according to its own needs. But this way is the most sustainable and the way to gain the best practices experience.

Many people speculate that this ship could be a drone carrier. I would see it that way as well, because I find the ship's bridge very disturbing. In terms of length (240 meters) and other dimensions, the ship would certainly be suitable for accommodating at least 20 fighter aircraft.
Even if this ship is certainly declared as a drone carrier, I still believe that the planners of this project have the construction of an aircraft carrier in mind and will pursue this goal in the next steps. I suspect that this ship could probably be completed by 2024 and then be tested on the high seas for 1 or 2 years and in 2026 the construction of an aircraft carrier can be started. If there are no planning difficulties. Building an aircraft carrier is a very complex undertaking and in practice has taken between 8 and 12 years. (8 years for the Americans and British and 12 for the Indians). Presumably, an Iranian aircraft carrier would be completed in 2035 if such a project were pursued.

Start with this is the correct way to go. Especially since the Naval industry is still a long way from full maturity. For example, basically our first advanced frigate is being produced with a new AESA radar, CIWS was not even a thing in IRIN ships, so theirs a long way to go. Starting with this to acquire a mastery of the processes and technical requirements.

Ideally, I would prefer turbofan powered UAVs to be deployed as a test-bed on this thing. It's hard to imagine that this is not being pursed. No way they will be satisfied with rotary engines and mini-turbofans seen on RQ-170.

Upgrade Karrar to XQ-58 standard with landing gear. Very achievable.

Start with this is the correct way to go. Especially since the Naval industry is still a long way from full maturity. For example, basically our first advanced frigate is being produced with a new AESA radar, CIWS was not even a thing in IRIN ships, so theirs a long way to go. Starting with this to acquire a mastery of the processes and technical requirements.

Ideally, I would prefer turbofan powered UAVs to be deployed as a test-bed on this thing. It's hard to imagine that this is not being pursed. No way they will be satisfied with rotary engines and mini-turbofans seen on RQ-170.

Upgrade Karrar to XQ-58 standard with landing gear. Very achievable.

My body tells me that this is ready.

 

[Sineva]

 

[sahureka2]

in reply to Arash1991

Large drones and planes could take off on a Sky-Jump-equipped bridge like the one that appears to be under construction on the Iranian ship, but if you don't have VSTOL planes, the problem is landing them.
To do this, arresting cables and an elevating safety net are needed, feasible but not easy to implement even by China, only with the 3rd aircraft carrier has it attempted to do so.

As a first experience, Iran could dust off in a modern key what Great Britain achieved in the Second World War, when to defend naval convoys from German air attacks they had equipped some ships with a Hurricane MK-I aircraft which was launched with a catapult when they were sighted the enemy aircraft, carried out the mission, the plane either reached a land base (difficult in the high seas) or the pilot jumped with a parachute near the convoy and then recovered, therefore the plane was considered to lose.

In a modern key, and without arresting cables, this new Iranian drone or aircraft carrier could be used in a similar way, with small drones that could have the ability to both take off and land in that big angled flight deck,
and large drones (including kamikaze ones) that can take off using the Sky-Jump and then carry out their mission but without returning to the ship, theoretically a couple of piloted aircraft could also be used (for example F-5 or Mig-29 ) which would take off only in case of having to intercept enemy aircraft, to then make two choices:
the first if you have the possibility to reach a land base,
the second if you are on the high seas.

However, from a flight deck of that size in Italy they have demonstrated that a small propeller plane can take off and land without launch and arrest devices, small manned aircraft that can perform reconnaissance and surveillance missions.
Video 4:28 to 4: 47

 

[Flotilla]

As a first experience, Iran could dust off in a modern key what Great Britain achieved in the Second World War, when to defend naval convoys from German air attacks they had equipped some ships with a Hurricane MK-I aircraft which was launched with a catapult when they were sighted the enemy aircraft, carried out the mission, the plane either reached a land base (difficult in the high seas) or the pilot jumped with a parachute near the convoy and then recovered, therefore the plane was considered to lose.

Those were named CAM ships and IMHO those were not a "success".

But the real utility of a UAV carrier it is something more common. Just a dozen of Shahed 129 and 24 Shahed 136/Arash-2 are enough to;
1 patrol sea lanes
2 gathering intelligence.
3 support operations / anti terrorist operations.

 

[Stryker1982]

@sahureka2

Figure this would be of interest to you. Looking to create a presence in the Northern Indian Ocean (which is not surprising of course)
The Shahid Bagheri UAV Carrier would also be carrying many small boats (30) with anti-shipping missiles (not unguided rockets). Also Shahid Mahdavi will be carrying boats but unsure how many.
Apparently 180m runway for Shahid Bagheri
2nd Catamaran (Soleimani Class) will be completed by end of year (Start of Spring)
Improving range of anti-shipping missiles carried on small boats.
Shahid Mahdavi to carry a whopping 750km missiles(?) Ground attack or Anti-Ship?

 

[aryobarzan]

Some major news items regarding IRGC navy (sorry if missed anything fast translation before I hit the sack!:

• IRGC navy has established Underground naval cities
• FAC of 110 knot will be introduced soon made from carbon composite material
• By mid March we will introduced 90 additional missile and rocket boats to the IRGC Naval force
• Shaheed Bagheri drone ship has a flight deck of 180 meters and is capable of carrying 30 ASHURA FACs.
• Shaheed Mahdavi FOB has four (TYpe!!) missiles of 750 and 300 Kilometer range and can accomodate 3 choppers and will join the navy by mid March!!!!
• second Sulaimani class corvette named shaheed Hassan Bagheri will soon join the Naval group and will have VLS missiles of 150 km range NAVAB and SAYAD. Will have 5000 nautical miles range and is ocean going

شهر شناور زیر زمینی در نیروی دریایی سپاه احداث شده است/ دومین شناور شهید سلیمانی تا پایان سال تحویل ندسا می شود​

فرمانده نیروی دریایی سپاه پاسداران انقلاب اسلامی با اشاره به حضور شناورهای سپاه در آب‌های دوردست، گفت: ما ۳ فروند شناور اقیانوس‌پیما داریم که در آب‌های دوردست حضور می‌یابند.
به گزارش مشرق، سردار علیرضا تنگسیری فرمانده نیروی دریایی سپاه در برنامه گفتگوی ویژه خبری درباره توانمندی های نیروی دریایی سپاه گفت: ظرف سه سال ۶۵۰ شناور را وارد نیروی دریایی سپاه کردیم.
وی افزود: شناورهای جدید ما ۷۵ تا۹۰ نات دریایی سرعت دارند و در آینده شناورهای با سرعت ۱۱۰ نات در اختیار خواهیم داشت این درحالی است که آمریکایی ها شناورهایی با سرعت ۳۰ نات در اختیار دارند.
تنگسیری ادامه داد: جنس شناورهای ما از جنس کربن است و این شناورهای رادار گریز هستند.
فرمانده نیروی دریایی سپاه تصریح کرد: در آینده نزدیک فروند دوم شناور شهید سلیمانی که به نام شهید حسن باقری نامگذاری شده است را به منطقه دوم نیروی دریایی سپاه الحاق می کنیم. شناور شهید سلیمانی ۵۰۰۰ مایل دریایی برد دارد و اقیانوس پیما است. شناور شهید سلیمانی اولین شناور داخلی است که موشک های عمود پرتاب نواب و صیاد با برد ۱۵۰ کیلومتر روی آن نصب شده است.
وی عنوان کرد: در نیمه اسفندماه هم ۹۰ فروند شناور راکت و موشک انداز به سازمان رزم نیروی دریایی سپاه اضافه می کنیم و شناور شهید مهدوی را رسما وارد سازمان ندسا می کنیم.
سردار تنگسیری عنوان کرد: شناور شهید مهدوی یک کشتی تجاری بوده است که آن را به یک شناور نظامی تبدیل کرده ایم و این شناور یک پایگاه متحرک دریایی است.
از فرمانده کل قوا به ما ابلاغ شده است تا به آبهای اقیانوسی ورود پیدا کنیم و این شناور قابلیت چنین دریا نوردی را دارد. شناور شهید مهدوی ۴ فرمت. موشک با بردهای ۷۵۰ و ۳۰۰ کیلومتر دارد و قابلیت پذیرش ۳ فروند بالگرد دارد.
فرمانده نیروی دریایی سپاه گفت: شناور شهید بهمن باقری هم که نام پهپاد بر است باندی به طول ۱۸۰ متر دارد و می تواند ۳۰ فروند شناور کلاس عاشورا با خود حمل کند. شناورهای کلاس عاشورا هم با موشکهای ۱۲ کیلومتری و شناورهای کلاس طازق هم با موشک ۱۸۰ کیلومتری تجهیز خواهند شد.
وی اظهار داشت: شهر شناوری زیر زمینی در نیروی دریایی سپاه احداث شده است و ما در طول سواحل خلیج فارس و دریای عمان جوانانی را تربیت کرده ایم تا هر زمان نیاز باشد وارد معرکه شویم.

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[TheImmortal]

Some major news items regarding IRGC navy (sorry if missed anything fast translation before I hit the sack!:

• Shaheed Mahdavi FOB has four (TYpe!!) missiles of 750 and 300 Kilometer range and can accomodate 3 choppers and will join the navy by mid March!!!!

BM or CM? If CM, would love to see Iran finally move away from C-802 based family of CMs and use other designs such as Ya Ali or Mobin (stealth CM) in conjunction with these swarm missiles.

 

[Flotilla]

BM or CM? If CM, would love to see Iran finally move away from C-802 based family of CMs and use other designs such as Ya Ali or Mobin (stealth CM) in conjunction with these swarm missiles.

It is not easy.

You need to feed targeting this long range missiles, specially in naval warfare, where targets are constantly moving. Few armadas in the world can done this, first one was USSR navy with special targeting systems like Mineral ME radars. After them, only PLAN did something like it. The radar horizon makes very difficult to feed data targeting those long range missiles and the only way would be embarking any of this systems.

Therefore those missiles would be only useful to hit ashore land targets only. Something very good for countering installations like Diego García or US bases like Abu Nakhlah, but not suitable for maritime anti surface operations.

 

[TheImmortal]

It is not easy.

You need to feed targeting this long range missiles, specially in naval warfare, where targets are constantly moving. Few armadas in the world can done this, first one was USSR navy with special targeting systems like Mineral ME radars. After them, only PLAN did something like it. The radar horizon makes very difficult to feed data targeting those long range missiles and the only way would be embarking any of this systems.

Therefore those missiles would be only useful to hit ashore land targets only. Something very good for countering installations like Diego García or US bases like Abu Nakhlah, but not suitable for maritime anti surface operations.

Your reasoning makes zero sense.

Ya Ali and Mobin are not “long range” missiles. And there are plenty of optical and IO solutions for loitering CMs to use to strike naval targets.

My point is C-802 based Iranian CMs is not deadly against modern ships. Houthi’s fired 2 of them at a US destroyer under Obama Admin and they were easily shot down. Then US target radar installations in Yemen as retaliation.

If you are trying to attack a destroyer or cruiser, you will need something more powerful than C-802 which likely would need to be launched in swarms to successfully attack a battle carrier group.

 

[Flotilla]

Your reasoning makes zero sense.

Ya Ali and Mobin are not “long range” missiles. And there are plenty of optical and IO solutions for loitering CMs to use to strike naval targets.

My point is C-802 based Iranian CMs is not deadly against modern ships. Houthi’s fired 2 of them at a US destroyer under Obama Admin and they were easily shot down. Then US target radar installations in Yemen as retaliation.

If you are trying to attack a destroyer or cruiser, you will need something more powerful than C-802 which likely would need to be launched in swarms to successfully attack a battle carrier group.

You cannot fire a 700 kilometres cruise missile without knowing exact location of enemy fleet. You need to know the position (even if it is aproximate), you need to know approximate speed and heading at least. And, obviously the Soleimani class have not sensors for adquiring those data.

The US Navy have been failing use the TLAM missile at extreme ranges... why the hell do you think a corvette sized ship can fire at more range a cruise missile in antiship use?.

Only Russia and China have required sensors for such task, even a DDG Arleigh Burke doesn´t have.

Why was the TASM variant of the Tomahawk missile withdrawn? Was it not an effective solution/missile?

Answer (1 of 5): The intention of TASM BGM-109B was to give USN ships and submarines a very long range anti-ship missile, that they could stand-off and saturate attack enemy shipping. Specifically the 80’s incarnation of USN Surface Action Groups without a carrier or airwing. Battleships centered...

www.quora.com

 

[TheImmortal]

You cannot fire a 700 kilometres cruise missile without knowing exact location of enemy fleet. You need to know the position (even if it is aproximate), you need to know approximate speed and heading at least. And, obviously the Soleimani class have not sensors for adquiring those data.

The US Navy have been failing use the TLAM missile at extreme ranges... why the hell do you think a corvette sized ship can fire at more range a cruise missile in antiship use?.

Only Russia and China have required sensors for such task, even a DDG Arleigh Burke doesn´t have.

Why was the TASM variant of the Tomahawk missile withdrawn? Was it not an effective solution/missile?

Answer (1 of 5): The intention of TASM BGM-109B was to give USN ships and submarines a very long range anti-ship missile, that they could stand-off and saturate attack enemy shipping. Specifically the 80’s incarnation of USN Surface Action Groups without a carrier or airwing. Battleships centered...

www.quora.com

Sir you are having an argument with yourself about LR CMs.

I said C-802 based CM is not a deadly missile against modern battleships and that Iran needs to develop more modern naval anti ship missiles. Now that Missile could be 75KM of range or 750KM.

I also said we haven’t seen Ya Ali (Iran’s version of Tomahawk) or Mobin (Iran’s stealth low observable CM) in mass production yet.

Then you went on a tirade about range and how it’s difficult to use long range CMs to attack naval targets. Which again as long as you actionable intelligence of the general area of your enemy you can use loitering CMs to go and search and destroy using either radiation seekers or Optical with an image processing target bank

 

[Messerschmitt]

Sir you are having an argument with yourself about LR CMs.

I said C-802 based CM is not a deadly missile against modern battleships and that Iran needs to develop more modern naval anti ship missiles. Now that Missile could be 75KM of range or 750KM.

I also said we haven’t seen Ya Ali (Iran’s version of Tomahawk) or Mobin (Iran’s stealth low observable CM) in mass production yet.

Then you went on a tirade about range and how it’s difficult to use long range CMs to attack naval targets. Which again as long as you actionable intelligence of the general area of your enemy you can use loitering CMs to go and search and destroy using either radiation seekers or Optical with an image processing target bank

A loitering LR-ASCM with terminal supersonic flight capability would be the logical next development, imo. Basically a hybrid between Abu Mahdi and 3M-54T Kalibr.

 

[Stryker1982]

A loitering LR-ASCM with terminal supersonic flight capability would be the logical next development, imo. Basically a hybrid between Abu Mahdi and 3M-54T Kalibr.

I'm not sure if both supersonic and loitering would be achievable anytime soon. The type of engine really limits the range alot. I can see why they went for the Abu Mahdi , very long range loitering over speed. For now.

 

[TheImmortal]

A loitering LR-ASCM with terminal supersonic flight capability would be the logical next development, imo. Basically a hybrid between Abu Mahdi and 3M-54T Kalibr.

Iran mentioned the development of Supersonic CMs. This was pre COVID. Thus I think we can say with a reasonable certainty that Iran likely had a supersonic CM prototype developed somewhere in last 3 years.

supersonic CM is no longer rare cutting edge tech as even Russian now has hypersonic CM developed and I believe both China/US are developing their own hypersonic CM (not to be confused with Hypersonic Glide Vehicle - HGV).

I'm not sure if both supersonic and loitering would be achievable anytime soon. The type of engine really limits the range alot. I can see why they went for the Abu Mahdi , very long range loitering over speed. For now.

He said terminal. There are CMs that are subsonic until less than 250-500 meters to target then go supersonic terminal attack pattern. Usually I believe that is top attack pattern.