Iranian Navy | News and Discussions

[Dariush the Great]

''China is the boogeyman'' is the same nonsense being fed us on a daily basis by pro US prostitutes.

 

[Yongpeng Sun-Tastaufen]

I think Yuan class sub is best option for Iran. Pakistan bought a number of these recently.

 

[TheImmortal]

I do not consider myself to be a Chinese / Russian apologist. I believe I'm being realistic since the world has changed quite a bit since those days.

Right now China is purchasing 1 million barrels of oil a day from Iran. The Americans / Europeans are showing intense animosity towards Russia and China and they continue to intensify the sanctions regime against them.


Obviously neither Russia nor China are going to give Iran game changing military technology. They are exporters of military hardware and will only sell inferior export variants of their products anyways.

That being said money talks and if Iran makes a large enough purchase, which Iran is looking to do, then in the same way that China buys Iranian oil at $3-$5 dollar discounts per barrel, or in the same way that some Chinese or Russian companies continue to do business with Iran despite US sanctions, a deal will likely be brokered.

China bought 1M barrels of oil because it......*checks notes*......benefits China.

They are getting Iranian oil at cheap discount while oil prices are high. They have refineries made to process Iranian crude oil.

Where was China during Trump administration when oil was below$30 and Iran was exporting less than 250,000 a day?

China works for China.

Iran is not getting anything from China. China would rather have friendly relations with the Arabs with deep pockets (who they also buy oil from btw) then piss them off by selling Iran large amounts of offensive weapons.


China has also been assisting Saudi’s with their missile program btw. China only happens satellite countries (NK and Pakistan) or banana countries (Saudi Arabia, Egypt, UAE). It doesn’t help countries with independent policy that can cause headaches for China

 

[Blue In Green]

I think Yuan class sub is best option for Iran. Pakistan bought a number of these recently.

China is in no position (willingly) to sell any major offensive Arms to the state of Iran for fear of retaliation from other regional countries that will hurt Chinese ambitions in the greater MENA area, especially in and around the Persian Gulf. Many of us here have been and are deeply intimate with Iranian armament, arms deals with foreign states as well the tumultuous history surrounding it. To even bring up the idea that Iran will be buying weapons from China, big ticket items at that, is simply devoid of retrospective knowledge on the matter. I'm not trying to belittle you either, I wish the best for China but this just isn't a feasible course of action given all that we know.

Until the Chinese government makes the decision (dubious chances at best) to 'pick and choose' sides, as it were, and it will be forced to do such a thing whether it wants to or not when it comes to Middle Eastern affairs. We will be seeing no significant cooperation or deals between both China and Iran wherever military matters are concerned.

 

[Yongpeng Sun-Tastaufen]

China is in no position (willingly) to sell any major offensive Arms to the state of Iran for fear of retaliation from other regional states that will hurt Chinese ambitions in the greater MENA area, especially in and around the Persian Gulf. Many of us here have been and are deeply intimate with Iranian armament, arms deals with foreign states as well the tumultuous history surrounding it. To even bring up the idea that Iran will be buying weapons from China, big ticket items at that, is simply devoid of retrospective knowledge on the matter. I'm not trying to belittle you either, I wish the best for China but this just isn't a feasible course of action given all that we know.

Until the Chinese government makes the decision (dubious chances at best) to 'pick and choose' sides, as it were, and it will be forced to do such a thing whether it wants to or not when it comes to Middle Eastern affairs. We will be seeing no significant cooperation or deals between both China and Iran wherever military matters are concerned.

China sells to both Iran and KSA. That's not an issue. Both KSA and Qatar bought F-15 when their relations where bad. For example.

 

[Blue In Green]

China sells to both Iran and KSA. That's not an issue. Both KSA and Qatar bought F-15 when their relations where bad. For example.

There isn't currently or have not been any significant 'game changing' arms deals between Iran and China, none: small arms, gimped Chinese AshCMs (which Iran made way better on its own once it reversed engineered them) and some shoddy Chinese SHORAD systems Iran renamed (Herz-9), do not count here (maybe ASAT technology can count). We're talking about weapon systems that would tilt the balance of power in the region; large acquisitions of modern Chinese fighters such as the J-10, J-11/16 etc., and other arms that would see a healthy boost in symmetrical/conventional Iranian military power.

KSA and Qatar are both hosting American forces and would have never come down to blows regardless of the rhetoric they threw/spew at one another since American interests and control in both nations would have forced them to calm down (economic deals and money tends to really knock some 'sense' into governments who rely on other countries for security and stability).

I will gladly welcome any major arms deals between Iran and China, but until then I will have to differ to history and facts on the matter.

 

[EvilWesteners]

China is in no position (willingly) to sell any major offensive Arms to the state of Iran for fear of retaliation from other regional states that will hurt Chinese ambitions in the greater MENA area, especially in and around the Persian Gulf. Many of us here have been and are deeply intimate with Iranian armament, arms deals with foreign states as well the tumultuous history surrounding it. To even bring up the idea that Iran will be buying weapons from China, big ticket items at that, is simply devoid of retrospective knowledge on the matter. I'm not trying to belittle you either, I wish the best for China but this just isn't a feasible course of action given all that we know.

Until the Chinese government makes the decision (dubious chances at best) to 'pick and choose' sides, as it were, and it will be forced to do such a thing whether it wants to or not when it comes to Middle Eastern affairs. We will be seeing no significant cooperation or deals between both China and Iran wherever military matters are concerned.

You have a very good point, and valid, indeed.

However, I was just in China and they are getting really pissed off with the West. They are also pissed off with Iran. They find Iran (government and its policies and its decision making processes) quite antiquated and "unreasonable and irrational". China (until recently, starting with Trump) regarded itself "rational global actor" and cared to be seen as such.

They are not happy with Iran because, of course, Iranian government does make "seriously questionable" decisions. Not retaliating against Israel for the last 3 years only emboldened Israel to attack Syria and Iran and assassinate Iranian Scientists. China doesn't understand Iran's decisions sometimes, when something is clearly an obvious choice. Chinese news hinted at Iran attacking Israeli embassies in Europe but Rohani does not want any problems with European countries.

For instance, China advised Iran on the earth quake in Tehran and told Iran that it must build capacity to burn at least 1 million dead bodies when there is (god forbid) an eventual earth quake in Iran. Iran rejected this "obvious" eventuality and ignored China. China scratched its head with bewilderment.

China also see no real discipline in Iran's military decision making (from their point of view).

Iran does not, for instance, finish its satellites which China offered to help. But Iran doesn't really seem to want to finish them. Except IRGC, nothing really gets done by government (Rohani) controlled projects. Almost nothing.

But do not make a mistake about China and Iran. China is SELLING loads of "parts" to Iran - these are hidden and not verifiable.

Big ticket items, like a fighter jet ??? Iran isn't serious in getting those.

Iran could easily build an upgraded F-14 with engines sourced from outside, with a good PESA radar (don't underestimate a good PESA radar for air defense in your own territory - like the Russian Irbis-S with solid state amplifiers and varying radar range spectrum, multi-band, multi-mode, multi-channel).

Iran's problems are many and there is little compromise with its own power groups.

However, Iran industries are doing much better thanks to the sanctions and the Rohani supporters that prefer to buy from Europe so they can skim off the top and leave it in their European banks for their future and their kids.

They are now in trouble. Iranian factory owners and Iranian projects are being prioritized compared to the European lovers money exporters.

China bought 1M barrels of oil because it......*checks notes*......benefits China.

They are getting Iranian oil at cheap discount while oil prices are high. They have refineries made to process Iranian crude oil.

Where was China during Trump administration when oil was below$30 and Iran was exporting less than 250,000 a day?

China works for China.

Iran is not getting anything from China. China would rather have friendly relations with the Arabs with deep pockets (who they also buy oil from btw) then piss them off by selling Iran large amounts of offensive weapons.


China has also been assisting Saudi’s with their missile program btw. China only happens satellite countries (NK and Pakistan) or banana countries (Saudi Arabia, Egypt, UAE). It doesn’t help countries with independent policy that can cause headaches for China

Yes indeed, China works for China. Countries don't have friends, they have interests.

However, these strategic decisions are very much multi-dimensional, they are not flat single-aspect decisions. China would love to put pressure on U.S. as they know now the since Trump (Biden continuing the same policy) that U,S. wants to take China, head on. China knows this and will maneuver with whatever it has up its sleeve, including Iran.

 

[Blue In Green]

You have a very good point, and valid, indeed.

However, I was just in China and they are getting really pissed off with the West. They are also pissed off with Iran. They find Iran (government and its policies and its decision making processes) quite antiquated and "unreasonable and irrational". China (until recently, starting with Trump) regarded itself "rational global actor" and cared to be seen as such.

They are not happy with Iran because, of course, Iranian government does make "seriously questionable" decisions. Not retaliating against Israel for the last 3 years only emboldened Israel to attack Syria and Iran and assassinate Iranian Scientists. China doesn't understand Iran's decisions sometimes, when something is clearly an obvious choice. Chinese news hinted at Iran attacking Israeli embassies in Europe but Rohani does not want any problems with European countries.

For instance, China advised Iran on the earth quake in Tehran and told Iran that it must build capacity to burn at least 1 million dead bodies when there is (god forbid) an eventual earth quake in Iran. Iran rejected this "obvious" eventuality and ignored China. China scratched its head with bewilderment.

China also see no real discipline in Iran's military decision making (from their point of view).

Iran does not, for instance, finish its satellites which China offered to help. But Iran doesn't really seem to want to finish them. Except IRGC, nothing really gets done by government (Rohani) controlled projects. Almost nothing.

But do not make a mistake about China and Iran. China is SELLING loads of "parts" to Iran - these are hidden and not verifiable.

Big ticket items, like a fighter jet ??? Iran isn't serious in getting those.

Iran could easily build an upgraded F-14 with engines sourced from outside, with a good PESA radar (don't underestimate a good PESA radar for air defense in your own territory - like the Russian Irbis-S with solid state amplifiers and varying radar range spectrum, multi-band, multi-mode, multi-channel).

Iran's problems are many and there is little compromise with its own power groups.

However, Iran industries are doing much better thanks to the sanctions and the Rohani supporters that prefer to buy from Europe so they can skim off the top and leave it in their European banks for their future and their kids.

They are now in trouble. Iranian factory owners and Iranian projects are being prioritized compared to the European lovers money exporters.


Yes indeed, China works for China. Countries don't have friends, they have interests.

However, these strategic decisions are very much multi-dimensional, they are not flat single-aspect decisions. China would love to put pressure on U.S. as they know now the since Trump (Biden continuing the same policy) that U,S. wants to take China, head on. China knows this and will maneuver with whatever it has up its sleeve, including Iran.

My only concern with foreign weapon deals has been the possibility of a repeat with what happened to the original S-300 accord. That entire fiasco really did put a major dent in how many people (those interested in Iranian military matters) view big-purchases of armaments made outside of Iran as it potentially carries the penalty of outright cancellation if the country providing said weapons were to be swayed geopolitically/diplomatically into voiding the deal altogether.

But thank you for your insight on the matter, very much appreciated!

 

[TheImmortal]

You have a very good point, and valid, indeed.

However, I was just in China and they are getting really pissed off with the West. They are also pissed off with Iran. They find Iran (government and its policies and its decision making processes) quite antiquated and "unreasonable and irrational". China (until recently, starting with Trump) regarded itself "rational global actor" and cared to be seen as such.

They are not happy with Iran because, of course, Iranian government does make "seriously questionable" decisions. Not retaliating against Israel for the last 3 years only emboldened Israel to attack Syria and Iran and assassinate Iranian Scientists. China doesn't understand Iran's decisions sometimes, when something is clearly an obvious choice. Chinese news hinted at Iran attacking Israeli embassies in Europe but Rohani does not want any problems with European countries.

For instance, China advised Iran on the earth quake in Tehran and told Iran that it must build capacity to burn at least 1 million dead bodies when there is (god forbid) an eventual earth quake in Iran. Iran rejected this "obvious" eventuality and ignored China. China scratched its head with bewilderment.

China also see no real discipline in Iran's military decision making (from their point of view).

Iran does not, for instance, finish its satellites which China offered to help. But Iran doesn't really seem to want to finish them. Except IRGC, nothing really gets done by government (Rohani) controlled projects. Almost nothing.

But do not make a mistake about China and Iran. China is SELLING loads of "parts" to Iran - these are hidden and not verifiable.

Big ticket items, like a fighter jet ??? Iran isn't serious in getting those.

Iran could easily build an upgraded F-14 with engines sourced from outside, with a good PESA radar (don't underestimate a good PESA radar for air defense in your own territory - like the Russian Irbis-S with solid state amplifiers and varying radar range spectrum, multi-band, multi-mode, multi-channel).

Iran's problems are many and there is little compromise with its own power groups.

However, Iran industries are doing much better thanks to the sanctions and the Rohani supporters that prefer to buy from Europe so they can skim off the top and leave it in their European banks for their future and their kids.

They are now in trouble. Iranian factory owners and Iranian projects are being prioritized compared to the European lovers money exporters.


Yes indeed, China works for China. Countries don't have friends, they have interests.

However, these strategic decisions are very much multi-dimensional, they are not flat single-aspect decisions. China would love to put pressure on U.S. as they know now the since Trump (Biden continuing the same policy) that U,S. wants to take China, head on. China knows this and will maneuver with whatever it has up its sleeve, including Iran.

I find it quite strange that you expect Iran under the most draconian sanctions to military respond to Israel/US when China itself with all its immense power and economic might still gets trolled by US.

Just to name a few

*US continues to arm Taiwan
*US continues to violate South China Sea defense zones
*US continues to involve itself with Chinese domestic affairs (Hong Kong, Uygur Muslims, etc)

What has China or Russia done in last 3 decades? Iran has been the only country to directly kill US soldiers in Iraq via Quds force and direct missile strike on US military base.

Last time China butted heads with US was the Korean War. China is even more conservative than Iran in its decision making.

 

[Yongpeng Sun-Tastaufen]

What has China or Russia done in last 3 decades? Iran has been the only country to directly kill US soldiers in Iraq via Quds force and direct missile strike on US military base.

Are you serious? China kills far more Americans than Iran ever did with covid-19. Americans don't even know what hit them.

I find it quite strange that you expect Iran under the most draconian sanctions to military respond to Israel/US when China itself with all its immense power and economic might still gets trolled by US.

Just to name a few

*US continues to arm Taiwan
*US continues to violate South China Sea defense zones
*US continues to involve itself with Chinese domestic affairs (Hong Kong, Uygur Muslims, etc)

What has China or Russia done in last 3 decades? Iran has been the only country to directly kill US soldiers in Iraq via Quds force and direct missile strike on US military base.

Last time China butted heads with US was the Korean War. China is even more conservative than Iran in its decision making.

Without China's protection the US would have invaded Iran a while ago. China defends Iran the same way the US defends Taiwan.

 

[Mr Iran Eye]

- Without China's protection the US would have invaded Iran a while ago. -

Whatever !

Iran is enormously capable of defending itself.... I can't wait for Iran to unveil their hidden surprise over fighter jets to end the silly speculation here

 

[Bahram Esfandiari]

Are you serious? China kills far more Americans than Iran ever did with covid-19. Americans don't even know what hit them.



Without China's protection the US would have invaded Iran a while ago. China defends Iran the same way the US defends Taiwan.

You are joking right?

 

[TheImmortal]

Are you serious? China kills far more Americans than Iran ever did with covid-19. Americans don't even know what hit them.
Without China's protection the US would have invaded Iran a while ago. China defends Iran the same way the US defends Taiwan.

This guy is borderline delusional.

How scary people like this exist in society instead of an mental hospital.

 

[Yongpeng Sun-Tastaufen]

IMO Iranian navy will go for Type 054A frigate and Type 039A sub which China is building for Pakistan. With Iran Pakistan China Russia forming the contiguous quad against the US, commonality cuts down cost and improves efficiency.

 

[Sina-1]

IMO Iranian navy will go for Type 054A frigate and Type 039A sub which China is building for Pakistan. With Iran Pakistan China Russia forming the contiguous quad against the US, commonality cuts down cost and improves efficiency.

You are free to that opinion. The question is however why Iran would buy submarines from anyone when it is building its own in a range of classes, amongst them the 3000ton Besat? Same goes for frigates and destroyers.