What's new

Iranian Missiles | News and Discussions

Now to the numbers:
A Fateh-110D impacting at mach 2,5 with the whole burnt out missile (est. 1300kg) has about the same impact energy as a Raad-500 MaRV (without booster) impacting at mach 3,5.

I assume the missile is intended for sole surgically strike precision? If you want to count an energy converted to blast radius then I believe the type of ground plays a significant role as well. It makes sense to convert energy into blast radius on the hard solid ground such as gravel and rocky soil which is totally fine given the geographical terrain Iranian neighboring countries are located. In the case of muddy and soft terrain a good portion of the blast would be lost.
 
.
Iran has a basket of targets which are again divided to targets that pose a offensive capability against Iran or not.
So it has a kind of map on where the highest threat assets are from Irans borders and the amount of them compared to each range.

Raad-500 and Qiam cover the bulk of those threatening assets, while Dezful only a small part, acting as outside theater, tactical fire support for Hezbollah in northern Israel. That's a special case where Hezbollahs own assets are degraded and Iran needs to provide fire support.

After the Dezful we will certainly see a all-carbon casing "Raad-1300" that covers all of Israel and can basically engage any tactical airpower that is able to reach Iran without air refueling.
So in the basket, all threats beyond 1300km from Irans border that remain and pose a threat are 5-10%.

I must remind here that Iran has 2000km Ghadr variants because they operate from mountain bases even east from Tehran, deep inside Iran. Tactical systems such as the Dezful and the future Raad variant would operate directly from border regions because of their small size and solid fuel (and remain survivable).

However the situation for the arsenal and production is not simple:
- Liquid department will argue (and rightfully) with their heavier payloads, lower lifetime costs, nuclear hardened feature. And of course with all the factories set up since 30 years for liquid fuel missile production (ultimately switching production to Khorramshahr).

- Factories producing HSS (steel) will argue that they worked 30 years to create those alloys for Fateh series. Setting up large factories and knowledge on metallurgy that must be preserved. Unless they are offered alternatives such as submarine industry, they will press to keep at least Fateh Mobin, Khalije Fars and Hormuz series in production. Maybe also arguing that high grade carbon fiber production capability will not meet needed material in the coming years.


Awesome analysis as always! You’ve mentioned the production method to be much rationalized as well, compared to dezful. What potential strategic importance does the production have for Iran’s allies? Footprint of production site and logistics of critical components?

Iran has the Sudan experience, where it exported technology and experience and now it is not benefiting it anymore.
So with highest technology it must be careful.
When I said Iran can now spend money on equipping even its tactical missiles with C-C-C nose tips its not because it is easier now, mainly its because it has set up a production line that with higher numbers and automatization allows for a more cost effective production.

What Gen. Hajizadeh is mentioning is IF you have access to high grade carbon fiber and IF you have 20 years of experience and science on that design to create a working all carbon fiber filament casing, then yes the production can be done at a much smaller factory.
However not to underestimate things: the high strength steel needed for the first Fateh was also nothing available on the open market, like the production line of high grade carbon fiber.
Providing closest allies such as the Hezbollah with a production line for the casing and supplying them with raw carbon fiber from Iran as well as all the critical components is what Hajizdadeh meant, obviously the casing is the only large and easier to spot part.

Imagine: a 3-missile off-road TEL of the size of a ordinary truck with 3 pin-point strike Raad-1300, estimated at 3200kg somewhere in the mountainous border regions.
 
.
- Factories producing HSS (steel) will argue that they worked 30 years to create those alloys for Fateh series. Setting up large factories and knowledge on metallurgy that must be preserved. Unless they are offered alternatives such as submarine industry, they will press to keep at least Fateh Mobin, Khalije Fars and Hormuz series in production. Maybe also arguing that high grade carbon fiber production capability will not meet needed material in the coming years.

Good point! There are so many fields that are in need of high quality steel that I think and hope that they will not try to "stay on board" because of legacy. As you mention submarines is need of high tensile strength steel. The same goes for turbines and various field in our aerospace. So I hope they see it as an opportunity and not loss to move on to new fields.
Furthermore there is a commercial value when Iran increases the quality of its steel production. Even right now Iran is doing wonders when it comes to metallurgy export. Hopefully and probably this trend will be amplified because of these advancements.

Iran has the Sudan experience, where it exported technology and experience and now it is not benefiting it anymore.
So with highest technology it must be careful.

Agreed! We have seen far to often that "allies" can sometimes be short sighted, to put it diplomatically.

What Gen. Hajizadeh is mentioning is IF you have access to high grade carbon fiber and IF you have 20 years of experience and science on that design to create a working all carbon fiber filament casing, then yes the production can be done at a much smaller factory.
However not to underestimate things: the high strength steel needed for the first Fateh was also nothing available on the open market, like the production line of high grade carbon fiber.
Providing closest allies such as the Hezbollah with a production line for the casing and supplying them with raw carbon fiber from Iran as well as all the critical components is what Hajizdadeh meant, obviously the casing is the only large and easier to spot part.

That is what I wanted to you to explore! Of course you need the technological enabler in order to accomplish this "simplified production". However, it is in the end an IRGC decision if they want to transfer this technology or not. If they do, for example to Hezbollah, then it should be possible to have a production of these missiles outside of Irans borders, which is amongst others a type of power projection. Also it is one more insurance to hinder expansion plans that some of the countries in the region might have.
What would be even more interesting is that the physical material needed to come from Iran is close to zero. Basically insuring the survivor of the ally even at 100% blockade.

Imagine: a 3-missile off-road TEL of the size of a ordinary truck with 3 pin-point strike Raad-1300, estimated at 3200kg somewhere in the mountainous border regions.

That would be a sight!
 
.
.
We should not underestimate just how potent to these cheap cruise missiles like Quds can be, even for Iran itself. They probably cost relatively next to nothing and can unleash a deadly saturation attack! I wonder how many such systems Iran has developed but kept hidden from the cameras.
 
.
Something like a 2000km Tomahawk would cost 1million$. How much would something like a Quds cost? $50k-80k?
 
. .
Most expensive thing would probably be the engine? It is a micro engine, would that really cost in the 10ks? I would not be surprised if the price is even less than what you said!
I remember when I was still in school; my advisor put me in charge of purchasing a gas chromatography analyzer for his lab. We got two quotes from two different vendors, and the price range was roughly $ 55,000 to $ 60,000 (for not a top trim GC/MS). After I entered the req. number in the system, he called me to his office and I noticed an angry face of him. He asked whether or not I had negotiated to cut the cost. I said “no sir! This is a scientific equipment and the price looks good to me after some internet searching I did.” He replied: “ ....! With $ 60,000 you can buy an E-class Mercedes Benz with all those systems including the chassis, engine, fuel system, brakes, suspension, electronics, control systems, monitor, etc.”. I was surprised. He continued:”The real cost of these analyzers at most is 1/10” of what they charge their customers, and the main reason is the cost of IP. So, go and call them to give us a good discount”. I went back to the lab and looked at one of the existing units. Literally it was nothing: a temperature-controlled electric oven, a capillary column, a detector made of the coated SS, and of course some instrumentation including the flow sensors, regulators, RTDs, etc. very simple! What I am trying to convey is that the asked price for a High-Tech product is always way more that the required cost for fabricating it. At the end I convinced my advisor to fix the problems of the existing GC instead of spending so much money to buy a new one.
 
. .

IMG_4079.JPG

^ Ghaem PGM

IMG_4081.JPG

^ Fajr-5 artillery rocket

Source: http://defanews.ir/node/514025
 
. . .
Iran has a basket of targets which are again divided to targets that pose a offensive capability against Iran or not.
So it has a kind of map on where the highest threat assets are from Irans borders and the amount of them compared to each range.

Raad-500 and Qiam cover the bulk of those threatening assets, while Dezful only a small part, acting as outside theater, tactical fire support for Hezbollah in northern Israel. That's a special case where Hezbollahs own assets are degraded and Iran needs to provide fire support.

After the Dezful we will certainly see a all-carbon casing "Raad-1300" that covers all of Israel and can basically engage any tactical airpower that is able to reach Iran without air refueling.
So in the basket, all threats beyond 1300km from Irans border that remain and pose a threat are 5-10%.

I must remind here that Iran has 2000km Ghadr variants because they operate from mountain bases even east from Tehran, deep inside Iran. Tactical systems such as the Dezful and the future Raad variant would operate directly from border regions because of their small size and solid fuel (and remain survivable).

However the situation for the arsenal and production is not simple:
- Liquid department will argue (and rightfully) with their heavier payloads, lower lifetime costs, nuclear hardened feature. And of course with all the factories set up since 30 years for liquid fuel missile production (ultimately switching production to Khorramshahr).

- Factories producing HSS (steel) will argue that they worked 30 years to create those alloys for Fateh series. Setting up large factories and knowledge on metallurgy that must be preserved. Unless they are offered alternatives such as submarine industry, they will press to keep at least Fateh Mobin, Khalije Fars and Hormuz series in production. Maybe also arguing that high grade carbon fiber production capability will not meet needed material in the coming years.




Iran has the Sudan experience, where it exported technology and experience and now it is not benefiting it anymore.
So with highest technology it must be careful.
When I said Iran can now spend money on equipping even its tactical missiles with C-C-C nose tips its not because it is easier now, mainly its because it has set up a production line that with higher numbers and automatization allows for a more cost effective production.

What Gen. Hajizadeh is mentioning is IF you have access to high grade carbon fiber and IF you have 20 years of experience and science on that design to create a working all carbon fiber filament casing, then yes the production can be done at a much smaller factory.
However not to underestimate things: the high strength steel needed for the first Fateh was also nothing available on the open market, like the production line of high grade carbon fiber.
Providing closest allies such as the Hezbollah with a production line for the casing and supplying them with raw carbon fiber from Iran as well as all the critical components is what Hajizdadeh meant, obviously the casing is the only large and easier to spot part.

Imagine: a 3-missile off-road TEL of the size of a ordinary truck with 3 pin-point strike Raad-1300, estimated at 3200kg somewhere in the mountainous border regions.

I don't see the Raad-500 as a replacement for the F-110 and F-313 at least not until production, accuracy and payload can match that of the Mobin and Khalij e Fars …. For now they are simply a compliment to those systems and in the long run once production increases we can easily predict that most of the equipment used to produce the F-110 & F-313 will likely be upgraded and modified to increase Zolfaghar or Dezful production and as you said heavier alloys that would be considered outdated for missiles can still be modified to be used on a rather long list of other weapons systems.....

Also Salman engine is just small enough to be put on a Qiam so if they reduced the payload from the current ~800kg warhead to a lighter ~350kg Glide capable RV with a ~400kg 2nd stage with a modified version of the Salmon it may be just enough to get us to +1300km with a rather vast stock of Qiam's (I wonder if such a mix has ever been attempted)
Although preferably the more sound option is a larger solid fuel 1st stage booster lighter and cheaper than the Sejil designed specifically for the Salmon but I'm just wondering until that comes to pass and a large enough stock is produced would the Qiam stock be capable of such a thing?
 
. .
IRAN’S SOLID-PROPELLANT SLV PROGRAM IS ALIVE AND KICKING

https://www.armscontrolwonk.com/arc...-propellant-slv-program-is-alive-and-kicking/


Based on estimation from the article...based on the weight of concrete blocks...rough thrust estimate of future solid fuel engines that are being developed in Shahroud:
1.jpg


For comparison:

European rocket -Vega SLV:

payload to LEO 2,5 tons

First stage thrust: 226 tons
Second stage thrust: 87 tons
Third stage thrust: 26 tons
Fourth stage thrust: 0,2 tons
 
.

Latest posts

Pakistan Affairs Latest Posts

Back
Top Bottom