Iranian Ground Forces | News and Equipment

[LegionnairE]

Then show me the evidence. I was not able to find any howitzers in 210mm class in Turkish possession. That is why I asked.

So do you have the evidence or do you not? I’m glad to be wrong (unlike you).


Did you bother to click the citation? It’s Chinese. You trolling me again my Turkish friend?

To get 70KM range you need M1299 howitzer (A .58 caliber artillery cannon). M1299 is still in prototype stage AND you need to use a rocket assisted round.

View attachment 967995

So my point stands. Max range of current .39 caliber howitzers is around 40KM.



I was talking about Ukraine - Russian war and both sides using laser guided shells and how much Ukraine cost.

Lastly no one knows how much Iranian Basir cost. It could be $20K or it could be $60K. It’s a fallacy to assume everything Iran makes is 10x cheaper than USA. And given our modest military budget even a $20K-$40K artillery shell is very expensive compared to a dummy shell we make for $250. That’s a difference of 10-50x!

Why is that hard to understand?



Ironic considering you citied something you didn’t even know the source of or that it’s not even in mass production let alone deployed to any battlefield.

So the only person that likes to argue is you.

here's Turkish 203mm M110 firing:

We don't have any 39 caliber 155mm guns

don't bother me with this stupidity again.

 

[TheImmortal]

here's Turkish 203mm M110 firing:

You said 210mm not 203mm.

@TheImmortal We do have 210mm howitzers, they were last used in Afrin offensive.

You might not know this. But 210mm cannons existed….back in WW2. Which is why I said you don’t have any in the first place.

M110 (203mm not 210mm) is ancient btw. Iran has those as well. Turkey is phasing it out. I don’t even know if Iran uses them anymore. Its range also sucks/sucked: 15-25KM.

You didn’t address the rest your argument because you were defeated for posting a Wikipedia source citing 70KM for a rocket assisted artillery round not yet in mass production (XM1113 .59 caliber variant) to be fired from a .59 caliber howitzer that is also in prototype stage not yet mass produced by good ol USA let alone supplied to any NATO country or Ukraine.

We don't have any 39 caliber 155mm guns.

You don’t have .59 caliber either

 

[jauk]

You said 210mm not 203mm.



You might not know this. But 210mm cannons existed….back in WW2. Which is why I said you don’t have any in the first place.

M110 (203mm not 210mm) is ancient btw. Iran has those as well. Turkey is phasing it out. I don’t even know if Iran uses them anymore. Its range also sucks/sucked: 15-25KM.

You didn’t address the rest your argument because you were defeated for posting a Wikipedia source citing 70KM for a rocket assisted artillery round not yet in mass production (XM1113 .59 caliber variant) to be fired from a .59 caliber howitzer that is also in prototype stage not yet mass produced by good ol USA let alone supplied to any NATO country or Ukraine.



You don’t have .59 caliber either

Are you seriously debating this person? Anything Türkiye has is at best knockdown and or flash (read pretty colors). I’d like to order a ‘Bayraghdar’ in pink but am willing to accept periwinkle.

 

[Flotilla]

That's a big luxury you may not have.. Are you going to send a special forces infiltration team 20-30km deep behind enemy lines

or is it easier with a tactical UAV like Bayraktar TB2? Or Muhajer or Ababil or whatever.

But the problem of those MALE it is that they are easy tracked via IR/Radar style SHORADs like Tor M1 or Tor M2. It is not a problem of Bayraktar or M6, it is a problem of radar signal size and heat signal. Newest versions of Tor M2 are really Air denial for MALE. They will take it down in few seconds. And Ukr frontline are so long that they are easily penetrated by special ops teams of both sides. They usually uses FAC laser designator for western SPG or Russians MSTA SPG.

 

[LegionnairE]

Are you seriously debating this person? Anything Türkiye has is at best knockdown and or flash (read pretty colors). I’d like to order a ‘Bayraghdar’ in pink but am willing to accept periwinkle.

I was praising the iranian equipment you dimwit

If I criticize something, I criticize it because it's shit. Not because it's Iranian.

But the problem of those MALE it is that they are easy tracked via IR/Radar style SHORADs like Tor M1 or Tor M2. It is not a problem of Bayraktar or M6, it is a problem of radar signal size and heat signal. Newest versions of Tor M2 are really Air denial for MALE. They will take it down in few seconds. And Ukr frontline are so long that they are easily penetrated by special ops teams of both sides. They usually uses FAC laser designator for western SPG or Russians MSTA SPG.

Correct, it's a real problem and you have to support that MALE UAV by suppressing the enemy air defence either through EW or physical means.


Ukraine is a very interesting conflict where nothing fits the previous concepts, There are certainly some lessons to be taken but this one almost definitely will not fit our combat environment. Our guys are either infiltrating by using the specially equipped UH60 "Yarasa" Blackhawks or CH-47F (of which Turkey only has 10) or Seahawk if it's an SAT team. certainly not cheap or simple methods. One Yarasa blackhawk costed about as much as three regular blackhawks if I remember correctly.

If you're utilizing these teams the target must be really worth it, you're not splitting hairs between different types of artillery shells at that point you're probably spending cruise missiles generously


And I'm giving examples from Turkey because I'm not very knowledgable about Iranian SOF teams or their equipment. But I'm guessing that it's still easier and cheaper to make a bunch of muhajer drones than to arm and train a lot of special forces people. Its not even a matter of cost, you simply can't do this at scale, not a lot of people can take this training.

 

[LegionnairE]

You didn’t address the rest your argument because you were defeated for posting a Wikipedia source citing 70KM for a rocket assisted artillery round not yet in mass production (XM1113 .59 caliber variant) to be fired from a .59 caliber howitzer that is also in prototype stage not yet mass produced by good ol USA let alone supplied to any NATO country or Ukraine.

You can go much further than 40km with 155mm with specialized ammo

Did I say it was possible? Yes.
Is it possible. Yes.

Shut up.

 

[TheImmortal]

Did I say it was possible? Yes.
Is it possible. Yes.

Shut up.

Did I say it was impossible? No I said it would require a bigger artillery piece that NATO doesn’t have (true statement). I even said Russia has bigger cannons.

You act like I said it’s impossible to make a piece of artillery go more than 40KM. It’s not, they simply don’t exist in .39 caliber or even .52 category at the current time for NATO. There are various prototype cannons and specialized ammo but they haven’t been deployed yet in mass production.

Max artillery you have is 40KM. More like 20-30KM during wartime.

Russians have bigger artillery pieces, but the NATO armies generally use 155mm.

You alluded to an artillery piece that only further proved my point. Even western arms manufacture backed up my statement. You probably didn’t even know what you cited.

Are you seriously debating this person? Anything Türkiye has is at best knockdown and or flash (read pretty colors). I’d like to order a ‘Bayraghdar’ in pink but am willing to accept periwinkle.

He’s not very knowledgeable about military weapons. Makes blanket statements, then double downs (typical Turkish behavior). Logic and reason don’t exist with this individual. His opinion is the authority and he can’t be wrong.

Getting a Turkish person to admit they are wrong is like spotting a Unicorn.

 

[jauk]

Yeah, the very reasons this person is here is their rejection by their own and/or somehow trying to be the big fish in a different pond. This ocean is no pond and certainly Iran is the whale, making this person mere fungus.

 

[LegionnairE]

Did I say it was impossible? No I said it would require a bigger artillery piece that NATO doesn’t have (true statement). I even said Russia has bigger cannons.

You act like I said it’s impossible to make a piece of artillery go more than 40KM. It’s not, they simply don’t exist in .39 caliber or even .52 category at the current time for NATO. There are various prototype cannons and specialized ammo but they haven’t been deployed yet in mass production.

As the barrel gets longer and longer you start getting diminishing returns the difference between 52 caliber to 58 doesn't matter as much as 39 and 52. Americans have been stuck with 39 caliber for a long time and now they decided if they are going to change barrels they might as well go all in. It's not some wunderwaffe that nobody thought of before, Iran could easily replace the 39 caliber guns with 58 as well. You get stuck in dumbest things possible. Instead of getting the main point you're arguing meaningless details.

I talked about this decision here:

I heard that PzH 2000 was having some problems with too much wear & tear in Ukraine. That's something that may have to be improved. So I understand why the americans might want to stick with something battle proven. But it's just too old and, too limited at this point just let it die.

and here:

If it's all upgraded like you said, what's the point of keeping the same tracks, same chassis, the same turret?

Turkey still uses M52T and M110, at the end of the day a cannon is a cannon, but if you're spending all that money upgrading everything why not go that last bit of distance get a new platform?


You know a PzH 2000 will outpreform this thing no matter how much you upgrade the internals and you know the US logistic system is perfectly capable of hauling around a 60-70 ton SPG.

M52T for those who might not know.
(We upgraded these before switching to T-155 platform and we haven't touched them ever since, they just stick around in reserves)

The point is, 155mm isn't as limited as you think, larger caliber doesn't necessarily mean longer range, we have larger calibers. In fact 105mm is actually better in some applications, you can hit a larger area with 105mm with the same tonnage of shells. It has a lot of advantages.

Yeah, the very reasons this person is here is their rejection by their own and/or somehow trying to be the big fish in a different pond. This ocean is no pond and certainly Iran is the whale, making this person mere fungus.

You never made any sensible arguments, you're just an idiotic troll, an Iranian version of MMME. I'll just put you on the ignore list.

He’s not very knowledgeable about military weapons. Makes blanket statements, then double downs (typical Turkish behavior). Logic and reason don’t exist with this individual. His opinion is the authority and he can’t be wrong.

What a coincidence, I think the same about you

 

[Raghfarm007]

 

[WudangMaster]

 

[TheImmortal]

This is Karrar “cheap” version. Not the IRGC version. Basically zero active counter measures, no remote gun, and less advanced features than most modern MBTs.

Decent cheap solution for long distance warfare, but would not survive well in urban conflict or against an enemy with ATGM IFVs like Bradley’s.Remember most of Iraqi army tanks got picked off by Bradley’s rather than Abrams.

I don’t “hate” it because there are much more urgent priorities for Iran’s armed forces than having an advanced tank for a land invasion that has a 1/100 chance of happening.

For mechanized armour, Iran needs a modern IFV and a modern troop transport vehicle. But these can wait for another day.

 

[WudangMaster]

This is Karrar “cheap” version. Not the IRGC version. Basically zero active counter measures, no remote gun, and less advanced features than most modern MBTs.

Decent cheap solution for long distance warfare, but would not survive well in urban conflict or against an enemy with ATGM IFVs like Bradley’s.Remember most of Iraqi army tanks got picked off by Bradley’s rather than Abrams.

I don’t “hate” it because there are much more urgent priorities for Iran’s armed forces than having an advanced tank for a land invasion that has a 1/100 chance of happening.

For mechanized armour, Iran needs a modern IFV and a modern troop transport vehicle. But these can wait for another day.

The IRGC version was renamed Qalaavizaan and there are big differences between the 2. The Artesh ones might even be updated T72s.

 

[TheImmortal]

The IRGC version was renamed Qalaavizaan and there are big differences between the 2. The Artesh ones might even be updated T72s.

The main limitations for Iran’s tanks is outdated shell technology, poor survivability of crew (due to Russian design), and lack of a powerful cannon to fire further and at a distance compared to western tanks.

These issues can be address later, ultra modern mechanized armour is a luxury that Iran cannot afford at the moment given so many other pressing needs.

 

[Soldier35]

Final tests of a simplified version of the Karrar tank, first shown in 2017, have passed in Iran. The tank was created by the Bani Hashem company on the basis of the Russian T-72S; it also uses the technical solutions of the T-90MS tank, which Iran previously wanted to buy, but could not for a number of reasons, as well as some design solutions of the American Abrams tanks. The Karrar tank has a laser range finder and an electro-optical fire control system. Despite the apparent similarity with Russian tanks, it has a different design of commander's panoramas and remote-controlled machine gun installations. Another tower and explosive reactive armor units. The Karrar tank can also be equipped with laser and radar irradiation warning sensors. The tank is equipped with a 125 mm smoothbore gun capable of firing anti-tank missiles. The tank can be equipped with a remote-controlled combat module with a 7.62 mm machine gun. The tank uses a carousel-type automatic loader. Tank weight 51 tons, crew 3 people, estimated engine power 1000 hp.