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Iranian Chill Thread

I guess you did not read my previous comment then.

Iranians like other peoples do not determine their lifestyles simply on their own. It is in fact quite a naive thing to assume, since the impact of cultural soft power and social engineering is very real and absolutely overwhelming.

Regarding Iran, first of all it's not so that an overwhelming majority oppose current hejab laws. It's just that their voices are amplified by the enemy's (and its fifth column's) massive propaganda apparatus. And as long

As for Turkey, no, Turkish people have not become more Islamic since the advent of the AKP. It's just that the regime finally allowed a party to run and take over the government, which was more representative of the silent mass of practicing, working-class Moslem Turks who felt largely alienated by the radical secularism of previous administrations. However the broad tendency is and has been towards a reduction of religious practice, as articles shared by user Homajon show.

Authorities have decided to stop enforcing the ban on satellite receivers not because it doesn't work but by pure political choice. It's not an issue to make it work, it only supposes a larger set of measures to be taken as I explained in my previous post.
I know you're not going to get it, but if you believe in social engineering, you have to understand that social engineering is not possible with force. The proper tool for social engineering is having a large group of powerful media, an area where the IR sucks balls and our enemies dominate it completely.

An overwhelming majority of people in Tehran oppose current hijab laws, including women who wear hijab as I have talked to them. I don't know about Yazd, for example. But I know for a fact that an overwhelming majority of people in large cities of Iran like Tehran, Karaj, Isfahan (at least over 95%) completely oppose compulsory hijab.

The AKP wouldn't have gained power in Turkey had Turkish people become more liberalized. I remember that Abdullah Gul actually had to fight for his wife's hijab in the Turkish parliament. So, in reality, Turkey has become more Islamic compared to decades ago.

They can't and they won't. There is absolutely no way to enforce those anti-satellite laws and you're completely delusional to think otherwise, particularly with new satellite internet that is supported in recent smart phones like iPhone 14. Even internet censorship will fail very soon.
 
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Regarding Iran, first of all it's not so that an overwhelming majority oppose current hejab laws. It's just that their voices are amplified by the enemy's (and its fifth column's) massive propaganda apparatus. And as long
The irony is that the Islamic Republics policies on certain matters have only fueled the enemies subversive efforts. All you have to do is look at the 1980s Iran and 2022, and you will see how badly these policies have failed.

The enemy loves rules like this because it fuels dissatisfaction against the entire system. Is becoming like Hezbollah territory in Lebanon going to destroy Iran?
 
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I know you're not going to get it, but if you believe in social engineering, you have to understand that social engineering is not possible with force. The proper tool for social engineering is having a large group of powerful media, an area where the IR sucks balls and our enemies dominate it completely.

Where did I state the opposite? And by the way, Iran will never match her enemies in the media department, because in this area asymmetric warfare is not possible. It's only a matter of resources and quantity.

An overwhelming majority of people in Tehran oppose current hijab laws, including women who wear hijab as I have talked to them. I don't know about Yazd, for example. But I know for a fact that an overwhelming majority of people in large cities of Iran like Tehran, Karaj, Isfahan (at least over 95%) completely oppose compulsory hijab.

You talked to an overwhelming majority of people in Tehran, Karaj and Esfahan?

The AKP wouldn't have gained power in Turkey had Turkish people become more liberalized. I remember that Abdullah Gul actually had to fight for his wife's hijab in the Turkish parliament.

There's the general tendency, and then there's the proportional distribution if viewpoints at a given time. That a majority of Turks were and are conservative minded in the religious sense doesn't mean religiosity isn't tendentially regressing. User Homajon has shared multiple articles here that confirm this based on comprehensive studies (rather than subjective individual impressions).

And also, many have voted AKP for economic reasons and not because of social-cultural considerations, especially after Erdogan's first tenure(s).

They can't and they won't. There is absolutely no way to enforce these laws and you're completely delusional to think otherwise, particularly with new satellite internet that is supported in recent smart phones like iPhone 14. Even internet censorship will fail very soon.

It's possible to control the internet and keep undesired content out.
 
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The irony is that the Islamic Republics policies on certain matters have only fueled the enemies subversive efforts. All you have to do is look at the 1980s Iran and 2022, and you will see how badly these policies have failed.

Please read my previous post. It's because of the enemy's cultural assault, namely the massive social engineering and soft war Iranians have been subjected to, that there exists some degree of dissension in this field. Left to their own devices under Islamic rule, Iranians would never have espoused such westernized mindsets.

The enemy loves rules like this because it fuels dissatisfaction against the entire system. Is becoming like Hezbollah territory in Lebanon going to destroy Iran?

The enemy loves Iran to become "normalized" according to globalist "cultural" standards. They see liberalization of hejab rules as the initial step, after which the topic of the day will promptly shift to legalization of alcoholic beverages, nightclubs etc, and it will not stop until homosexual marriage and child adoption, suppression of the principle of filiation in law, births outside wedlock turning into the norm, and finally the definitive destruction of anything that's left of the family structure.

The delusion that by taking a step back on the dress code and authorizing alcoholic narcotics, things will stop right there, and the assumption that westernized Iranians influenced by the enemy's propaganda won't soon be pressing for more, is just that, a perfectly dangerous delusion. Mark my words today. Time will tell.
 
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Where did I state the opposite? And by the way, Iran will never match her enemies in the media department, because in this area asymmetric warfare is not possible. It's only a matter of resources and quantity.

You talked to an overwhelming majority of people in Tehran, Karaj and Esfahan?

There's the general tendency, and then there's the proportional distribution if viewpoints at a given time. That a majority of Turks were and are conservative minded in the religious sense doesn't mean religiosity isn't tendentially regressing. User Homajon has shared multiple articles here that confirm this based on studies, not just subjective individual impressions.

And also, many have voted AKP for economic reasons and not because of social-cultural considerations, especially after Erdogan's first tenure(s).

It's possible to control the internet and keep undesired content out.
When you talk about using force for social engineering, it implies that you don't understand how it is done. Social engineering is done by media which heavily relies on arts and entertainment, particularly music and cinema. Both of which have been suppressed by the IR since its inception. The IRIB has lost its audience among Iranian people. Nobody watches Iran's TV channels anymore, unless it is for sports, mostly Persepolis and Esteghlal matches or volleyball/football matches. And yet the IRIB releases figures that claim over 90% of Iranians are satisfied with its programs. lol

You don't need to talk to an overwhelming majority of people in Tehran, Karaj or Esfahan if you know what sampling is in statistics. All you could ask is if my sampling was fair and not biased. And yes, it was not biased. Because I went to a public university that attracted the most religious kind among public universities in Tehran, my high school classmates were from all groups of ordinary Iranians including religious people, I have worked in Iran in different jobs that included ordinary Iranians, so yeah, my sampling was not biased towards a particular group of belief. And yet, I have never seen even a single person that defended the current compulsory laws for hijab, including women who wore chador and were practicing Muslims.

Mashreghnews.com is a very conservative website and all it takes to see their sentiment about the death of Mahsa is to read the comments of their viewers that I posted before. Again, I have to remind you that mashreghnews.com is by far one of the most conservative online newspapers in Iran. We are not talking about liberal newspapers like Tabnak or Entekhab, for example.

Maybe we should ask Turkish members here? @dBSPL could be of help here. I could be wrong, but from Iranians that have frequently visited Istanbul since several decades ago until now, it is generally believed that the appearance of the citizens is becoming more Islamic compared to 1980s. More women wear headscarves compared to 1980s, for example.

No, it's not. The very fact that you see millions of Iranians in places like Twitter or Telegram posting all sorts of comments against the law and even publicly insult the Supreme Leader (which is a very serious offense in the law) is a solid evidence that internet censorship has failed terribly.
 
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When you talk about using force for social engineering, it implies that you don't understand how it is done. Social engineering is done by media which heavily relies on arts and entertainment, particularly music and cinema. Both of which have been suppressed by the IR since its inception. The IRIB has lost its audience among Iranian people. Nobody watches Iran's TV channels anymore, unless it is for sports, mostly Persepolis and Esteghlal matches or volleyball/football matches.

You don't seem to have understood what I wrote. I didn't claim social engineering relies on the use of force. I stated the enemy is resorting to social engineering and Iran will not be able to counter them on the same playing field. For in this area, it's not so much a matter of quality or ingenuity, but of quantity and financial resources above all. And when it comes to these, Iran will continue lagging behind her enemies for many decades to come.

In the media realm, the enemy also has another inherent advantage in terms of efficiency over Iran: its propaganda and soft power are appealing to the base instincts of humans, especially sexual ones (and others too), because the enemy operates outside of any moral framework. Of course Iran cannot start adopting similar techniques, since it would defeat her entire purpose by definition.

So the response must necessarily come elsewhere, in the media department Iran won't stand a chance in promoting religiosity, no matter what she does.

You don't need to talk to an overwhelming majority of people in Tehran, Karaj or Esfahan if you know what sampling is in statistics. All you could ask is if my sampling was fair and not biased. And yes, it was not biased. Because I went to a public university that attracted the most religious kind among public universities in Tehran, my high school classmates were from all groups of ordinary Iranians including religious people, I have worked in Iran in different jobs that included ordinary Iranians, so yeah, my sampling was not biased towards a particular group of belief. And yet, I have never seen even a single person that defended the current compulsory laws for hijab, including women who wore chador and were practicing Muslims.

Professional opinion polls suppose a tad more than this. Else anyone could present their subjective experience as a valid social scientific finding for as long as it conforms to certain sampling criteria. But it doesn't quite work this way. There are requirements in terms of sample size which can't be fulfilled by a single person putting questions to their acquaintances. There are also requirements in how the questions are precisely worded, it must be the exact same formulation every time, and more.

Mashreghnews.com is a very conservative website and all it takes to see their sentiment about the death of Mahsa is to read the comments of their viewers that I posted before. Again, I have to remind you that mashreghnews.com is by far one of the most conservative online newspapers in Iran. We are not talking about newspapers like Tabnak or Entekhab, for example.

Mashregh attracts a fair share of secular nationalists because of its exclusive reporting on military-related topics. There are also liberals posting there. The enemy's social engineering has started affecting some religious conservative milieus but this is a recent phenomenon (facilitated by the likes of Omid Dana, who generally speaking is a double-edged sword for nezam and must therefore be held in check by more fervently religious Hezbollahi factions).

Maybe we should ask Turkish members here? @dBSPL could be of help here. I could be wrong, but from Iranians that have frequently visited Istanbul since several decades ago until now, it is generally believed that the appearance of the citizens is becoming more Islamic compared to 1980s.

Anecdotal individual experience doesn't mean much to qualified social scientists. Even the subjective perception of one and the same objective reality will vary from person to person depending on a series of factors. So no amount of traveler's impressions can substitute themselves to proper empirical field research, and in this regard numerous studies conclude to tendential regression of religious practice among the Turkish population and especially younger generations. Like I said, user Homajon has shared various papers to this effect in the Middle East section, you may look them up and decide if and why they are supposedly wrong.

No, it's not. The very fact that you see millions of Iranians in places like Twitter or Telegram posting all sorts of comments against the law and even the Supreme Leader is a solid evidence that internet censorship has failed terribly.

It's technically possible, all that's needed from there on is sufficient political will.

Now I'm not entirely sure where this lack of political will is stemming from. Several different explanations are possible, but I don't have the time to get into these in detail. All I will say is if decision makers are of the belief that loosening Islamic regulations and laws will dialectically lead to social re-Islamization after a while, they will be sorely mistaken. But I doubt they're this naive.
 
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Maybe we should ask Turkish members here? @dBSPL could be of help here. I could be wrong, but from Iranians that have frequently visited Istanbul since several decades ago until now, it is generally believed that the appearance of the citizens is becoming more Islamic compared to 1980s. More women wear headscarves compared to 1980s, for example.
That's an absolutely wrong observation, my friend. Unfortunately, it's the opposite. Istanbul's suburbs or places with heavy Arab immigration can also be discussed seperatly, but there is so much nudity in central/maintown areas that you cannot see this much even in most European cities. I'm not criticizing people's own choice, but it's not something to be proud of either.
 
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That's an absolutely wrong observation, my friend. Unfortunately, it's the opposite. Istanbul's suburbs or places with heavy Arab immigration can also be discussed seperatly, but there is so much nudity in central/maintown areas that you cannot see this much even in most European cities. I'm not criticizing people's own choice, but it's not something to be proud of either.

I’m not sure what ‘nudity’ you are referring to. I been to Istanbul several times and over the years the conservative nature has been increasing. Even alcohol in shops is covered by a screen and you have to ask shop owner to raise it like your buying pornography or something highly undesirable.
 
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I’m not sure what ‘nudity’ you are referring to. I been to Istanbul several times and over the years the conservative nature has been increasing. Even alcohol in shops is covered by a screen and you have to ask shop owner to raise it like your buying pornography or something highly undesirable.
Hi, There is a ban on labels and advertising for alcohol and cigarette products. Even Turkiye's most successful sports club, Efes Pilsen, had to change its name to Anadolu Efes. There is also a terrible excise tax on these products.

As I said, there is an extraordinary difference between Istanbul's central districts and its suburbs. You can easily feel this in destinations such as Moda and Nişantaşı. My life has passed in the city you visited a few times as a tourist. My opinion is not a conjecture, but about the city I live in every day and know every hole in it.

Regarding the turban issue, I should add that there were very wrong practices after the 80's coup. One of these was the inability of women in headscarves to work in public offices, or even to go to university. Fortunately, we left these problems behind. Headscarved women used to be more, but visibility in social life is something else.

In my personal opinion, I also find it extreme to wear veiled people who are completely covered, or to dress so exhibitionistly that they almost show their ***. Istanbul used to be a city where the clothing culture was less at these two extremes. There are now more social circles of both types So it's more visible.
 
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Doesn't change much in practice. There was no tightening of modesty law enforcement after the establishment of Ershad Patrols, it used to be stricter before, whether or not Basij had a legal right to arrest (they could immobilize suspects until arrival of police and more importantly, enforcement used to be carried out with greater scrutiny).

These brothers are no fools. They're applying the law, that's all. In secular liberal countries with no Islamic modesty laws, people get stopped and harassed by police forces under manifold pretexts. Yet not everyone affected will automatically turn into an "ACAB" anarcho-leftist or into some fanatical anti-regime activist. And Iranian law enforcement is very, very lenient in comparison.

I agree rules of the land must be strictly adhered to. There’s no negotiating that especially given the array of opponents and traitors. Ironically those who have genuine concerns about current rules have their wishes delayed ESPECIALLY since the IRI on principle cannot bend to foreign influenced movements. And rightly so.

That said, it would be good to know on what charges Zheena was called in.
 
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You guys are discussing this of all things? How about someone asks what the condition of the Iranian semiconductor industry is today?!
 
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I can't see this compulsory hijab rule staying alive for long. The government also doesn't seem to realize that this rule only benefits Iran's core enemies.


My guess is she was hit in the vehicle forcefully, and probably experienced some head injuries that manifested itself after a few hours. Usually bleeding in the head would do this. Getting hit on the head once with a baton can do that.
its what epidural hematoma do, if you trat them before the patient become uncouncios , the out come is very good but if the patient go to coma , then the chance of recovery become very low .
 
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