Iran unveils new Kowsar advanced jet trainer

[WordsMatter]

Do you know what an advanced trainer is?

This is a "basic trainer", because it is small, slow, single piston powered prop trainer.

Kowsar-88 is an advanced trainer because you would fly it at advanced stages of pilot training, because it is bigger, faster, and powered by twin jet engines.

Unless... unless... you actually meant that it doesn't look advanced because it doesn't have any paint.

By your logic the Su-27 isn't advanced or modern either, because this one doesn't have any paint.

I don't think Su-27 and this trainer are comparable. A better comparison would be U.S. Air Force T-X advanced trainer and this plane. It seems this plane is put together using different pieces (of other planes?).

 

[sahureka2]

As for the resembling AIDC AT-3 of which the Taiwanese have developed some variants, of which a single-seat for ground-attack XA-3

also by Kowsar it could be developed a similar version a single-seat, operationally similar to the L-159 ALCA

 

[Star Expedition]

Congratulations!
Every success Iran made will make a better Middle East.

 

[eagle2007]

ALCON,

I suspect the "patchwork" appearance is why old B.T. claimed they were going to have to cannibalize existing older F-5s to build these, though I still find that claim skeptical. By B.T. own previous accounts over at the ACIG forum, Iranian engineers are able to build nearly an entire F-5 airframe from scratch, the only issue was the engines and some of the avionics.

I do think both sets of landing gear look to be taken from F-5s but landing gear assemblies are something Iran has been able to manufacture for years, so why cannibalize existing aircraft?

Something I addressed years ago at the old IMF was how odd the Tazarve/Dorna designs were, in that they didn't fit into Iran's existing training structure. This is one of the reasons I suspect they were never procured in large numbers.

Air forces all over the world use VERY different training structures. For example:

USAF- Combat Pilot Path Only (aka excludes Tanker/Transport pilots)
> Diamond DA20 (contractor-owned/operated)- Initial Flight Training
> T-6 Texan II- Basic Primary Trainer
> T-38- Advanced Trainer
> Formal/Conversion Trainer (pilot's train on their actual combat aircraft assigned)

IRIAF- Combat Pilots Only
> ?? - Initial Flight Training (used to be Bonanzas/Parastu, not sure today)
> PC-7- Basic Primary Trainer
> F-5B/Simorgh/FT-7N- Advanced Trainer
> Formal/Conversion Trainer

Very similar right? So where would a Kowsar fit into this picture? There are at least three possibilities:
1. Basic Primary Trainer (Replacing PC-7)- While there was a promising domestic replacement program for the PC-7 back in the early 2000s (HT-80 design, I've got some pics/specs if anyone is interested), it was long ago abandoned. The PC-7 is a fine aircraft but has gotten behind the power curve in the ability to train pilots for higher G aircraft.
2. Intermediate Trainer- This would make it akin to India's HJT-36. In the Indian Air Force, it is referred to as a Phase-2 trainer, a bridge between their new PC-7 Mk IIs and their new BAE Hawk Mk 132s Advanced Trainers. This would make for a radical change in the IRIAF's existing training structure.
3. Advanced Trainer/Replacement of F-5B/Simorgh/FT-7N- Some air forces don't use supersonic trainers for their advanced training, such as India, Taiwan, France, UK, Saudi Arabia, Pakistan, and Russia to name a few.

The problem the Tazarve/Dorna designs always had, IMHO, was their performance didn't properly fit any of these categories except Basic Trainers. This was due to their simple construction and powerplant (non-afterburning J85-13, ~2850lbs of thrust). But, the PC-7 has arguably more combat potential if needed (as it was during the Iran-Iraq War, when fitted with rocket/gun pods and having a more fuel-conscious powerplant), a role the Tazarve was less-equipped for.

A twin-engine concept however, perhaps using more powerful J85-GE-21 non-afterburning engines (3500-3600lbs thrust each), would have enough power to give it MUCH stronger performance than the PC-7 and perhaps even give the F-5B/Simorghs a run for their money. I can see a lot of light combat aircraft potential in such an aircraft as well.

That said, the AT-3 like design of the Kowsar's does look, unfortunately, a bit dated. As many have pointed out, the Shafagh/M-ATF, was then and is to this day has a very modern airframe design. It was clearly designed to prepare pilots for high-G aircraft with its extraordinarily large LERX. That's not to say there aren't modern trainers out there of similar design. The MiG-AT is of a similar concept. MiG's designers swear up and down the MiG-AT can properly prepare pilots for their high-flying/tight-turning MiG-29/35, but they haven't managed to find any buyers of the type.

 

[sahureka2]

playing with images

 

[AmirPatriot]

HT-80 design, I've got some pics/specs if anyone is interested

I'm interested!

Excellent post as always Eagle, I learn something new in almost all of your posts. Even after 6 years...

I don't think Su-27 and this trainer are comparable.

If anything, the Su-27 should have far better construction, being a supersonic supermaneuverable combat aircraft, not a subsonic trainer.

It seems this plane is put together using different pieces
.

Most planes are not 1 piece. The only 1 piece aircraft I know are these...

 

[eagle2007]

ALCON,

When I get a chance, I'll create a thread for the HT-80..or maybe one dedicated to all of Iran's propeller-driven trainers?

Concerning Taiwan's AT-3, the single-seat XA-3 was, IIRC, a one-off model. In the end, AIDC managed to give the two-seaters the same combat capability as the XA-3 so they didn't purpose it. The ROCAF had plans to upgrade a good chunk of their AT-3 fleet to a new standard that would include a compact version of the APG-66 radar (giving it the ability to carry the HF-2 anti-shipping missile). However, the ROCAF can be a bit secretive these days and it's not super clear how many aircraft were/are being updated.

It seems Taiwan has already moved to replacement the AT-3. Two proposals, one a major upgrade to the AT-3 and the other based on AIDC's Fighter.

http://www.defensenews.com/story/de...bits-new-fighter-trainers-expo-aidc/31705401/

 

[sahureka2]

other configuration, playing with images

 

[Arminkh]

According to Iran's head of Aerospace industries, Kosar will be commissioned to to Air Force in requested numbers within 3 years:

http://www.mashreghnews.ir/news/714143/تحویل-جت-کوثر-به-نیروی-هوایی-ارتش-ظرف-سه-سال-آینده

 

[sahureka2]

In the absence of news and new photos, I continue to play with the image, refining the configuration

 

[sahureka2]

Two versions

 

[Arminkh]

Two versions

You seem to like this one more then Q-313?

 

[sahureka2]

You seem to like this one more then Q-313?

kowsar - Q-313
Kowsar can be a low cost alternative and risk, for any delay in the Q-313 project.
However, Kowsar will probably come into production before the Q-313.

Certainly for a Close Air Support (CAS), it is quick to use the normal trainer version.

If you want to make a Lightweight Strike Aircraft in a single seat version, there is certainly an additional cost for a partial rearrangement of the front including weight re-calculation, however, eliminating the posterior pilot seat, you could expand the fuel tank.
Then we should know, the number of Hardpoints and capacity of Kg / pounds, are already provided on the Trainer version, to evaluate, if considered insufficient, a possible recalculation of the wing structure to increase capacity

 

[Habibollah500]

 

[ilia]

Taxi tests
http://as6.cdn.asset.aparat.com/aparat-video/94f34a5fc41083673e6e4d648264f9e27647675-720p__58180.mp4