Iran unveils hypersonic weapon 'Fattah'

[drmeson]

Not an expert in this field but isn't Kinzal air launched version while Fattah is actual launched from ground.
Kinzal is more bulkier than Fattah since it is a single stage missile and has greater RCS in comparison to Fattah
after its first stage gets separated.

Diameter of both missiles seem to be "same" and it should rise a question whether the next logical step would be to design Fattah in the air launched variant which could be an interesting idea.

Khinzal dia is 1m and Fattah is around 0.75-80m.

Khinzal is a single-stage hypersonic missile with no dual exo/endo steering while Fattah is dual stage dual endo/exo steering hypersonic weapon.

..........................

 

[SecularNationalist]

Ok troll, we are all still waiting for your "evidence" on "Russia supplied Iran with Fattah". You made the claim, we did not, actually no one did except you.

Life Lesson for you: Never open your mouth to things you do not understand or can not back up.

It's well known fact Pakistan helped N Korea developing a nuclear bomb but you can't find any proof in documented form. Or in exchange we got missile tech from N Korea no proof of that either. Because that's the way covert operations work in practice.
But you just need a common sense to determine the reality. It's like when suddenly your poor friend buys a luxury car we all know whether it's some black money or he committed some robbery. We don't need a documented proof here.
I agree Iran has good scientists but still a country like Iran is far away from developing hypesonics on it's own especially when it's a relatively new tech and only few top global powers have it. But it's still a big achievement for Iran to get it from Russia , that will put isreal in check. Congratulations.
Now don't quote me again and stop arguing. Period...

 

[Muhammed45]

It's well known fact Pakistan helped N Korea developing a nuclear bomb but you can't find any proof in documented form. Or in exchange we got missile tech from N Korea no proof of that either. Because that's the way covert operations work in practice.
But you just need a common sense to determine the reality. It's like when suddenly your poor friend buys a luxury car we all know whether it's some black money or he committed some robbery. We don't need a documented proof here.
I agree Iran has good scientists but still a country like Iran is far away from developing hypesonics on it's own especially when it's a relatively new tech and only few top global powers have it. But it's still a big achievement for Iran to get it from Russia , that will put isreal in check. Congratulations.
Now don't quote me again and stop arguing. Period...

Russia would never ever share its top notch missile technology with Iran or any other country in the world. The Iranian version of HGV warhead is similar to American developed warhead. You need to Remember the S-300 deal.

North Korean case is different, Pakistan is not an stupid country to share its NUKE technology with NK or any other country which could form an international alliance against Pakistan's nuclear program. At the very best case scenario, Pakistan has provided them with dual use technologies such as bunch of centrifuges. Pakistan could claim they had sold them for civilian use such as electricity production.

Iran has put all its limited resources in missile technology. In other fields, progress is slow but missile field is the top priority of Iranian military doctorine. Its overflowing technologies can be used in air defense systems, air2air missiles, and every field that missiles are being used.

 

[Messerschmitt]

It's like when suddenly your poor friend buys a luxury car we all know whether it's some black money or he committed some robbery. We don't need a documented proof here.

Except this is not what happened with Iran's Fattah at all. This missile is a natural development, not a sudden jump: Zelzal-2 -> Fateh-110 -> Fateh-313 -> Zolfaghar -> Dezful -> (Zoheir) -> Kheybar-Shekan -> Fattah. Each of these missiles were an incremental improvement. Iran has been working on missiles since the 80s and Russia doesn't even have a comparable missile it could have provided Iran with. Kheybar-Shekan was already close to being a 'hypersonic weapon' and Fattah is the next logical development step.

 

[Hack-Hook]

Diego Garcia is overrated. It can be taken out by Khorramshahr-4.

By the time the next generation B-2 is launched Diego Garcia will no longer be used to store them as their range will increase and they can be deployed further away.



“easily” relative to a no fin HGV. But you think it’s easy steering a Mach 20 object thru the upper atmosphere with limited control surfaces? Do you know how long it took for Iran just to master flying wing design? How many prototypes crashed? That was flying at 300 mph with a human operator providing input.

A blended body will be too expensive for conventional design at long ranges. And blended body’s have lower terminal velocity so that’s a trade off.

Even DF-17 has an estimated range of less than 1800KM. Less than Iran’s Fattah missile btw.



No, now you will need bigger engine to provide off-setting corrections (similar to Khorramshahr-4 warhead) because you HAVE NO TRUE CONTROL SURFACES. The engine will need to be even more powerful because it needs to be able to counteract gravity forces on a Mach 20 object.

In case of K-4 it’s a MARV trajectory the warhead only uses it during re-entry for course correction. In case of Future HGV it will need to use the engine any time it “skips” since the trajectory will constantly be changing upon each skip and glide phase. Thus more powerful engine with more fuel/gases needed. Some designs use an “air breathing” engine for the oxidizer to reduce weight of extra fuel.

You think magically something with limited control surfaces bounces up and down (skip trajectory) due to “lift” while staying perfectly on course? Do you understand basic physics?

Less control surfaces + faster speed = need for power powerful engine to provide course corrections to the HGV via the onboard computer.


Good luck building a 3000KM blended body HGV that can go ~Mach 20 on a <5M dollar cost per missile. You are talking about $20-25M missile potentially maybe even more.

Some of you think Iran is Santa’s Workshop and everything has zero cost to build or research.

a delta wing hgv have more surface control than Fat'tah so i see no problem here

 

[NotSure]

Khinzal dia is 1m and Fattah is around 0.75-80m.

Khinzal is a single-stage hypersonic missile with no dual exo/endo steering while Fattah is dual stage dual endo/exo steering hypersonic weapon.

..........................

The Kinhzal and Iskander are semiballistic missiles with an apogee around 50km and speeds around M7-12. This is way above the max. altitude for nato interceptors but still inside the atmosphere, so exoatmospheric kill vehicles can't be used.

Higher apogee would be better for a longer range, but then they would leave the atmosphere. Means they can be earlier detected and maybe intercepted by exoatmospheric kill vehicles.

 

[drmeson]

It's well known fact Pakistan helped N Korea developing a nuclear bomb but you can't find any proof in documented form.

ROFL, You think because you do not know something about a subject then no one knows anything about that subject. That is not how the world works.

Nuclear proliferation by Dr. Khan's theft of centrifuge designs from his employer in Nederlands (URENCO) URENCO is as well documented as it gets. You need to read IAEA's official statement on the subject.

https://www.38north.org/2011/06/heinonen062211/

Dr. Abdolqadir Khan stole two centrifuge designs from his employers in Nederlands (URENCO) who owned the patents before Khan even got job in URENCO. One design was called CNOR which khan smuggled to Pakistan and this became P-1 in Pakistan then L-1 in DPRK. 2nd design he stole was G2 which became P-2 in Pakistan and L-2 in DPRK simultaneously in late 1990s. Khan was even charged with theft in Nederlands for this long before proliferation network was discovered. You for whatever reason have been living under a rock.

Or in exchange we got missile tech from N Korea no proof of that either. Because that's the way covert operations work in practice.

You are uninformed does not mean everyone is. The North Korean origin of Pakistani Ghori series of Missiles (Ghori = A Tajik conquerer of India, clever name) is well documented. Same lengths of stages, same diameter of motors, same propellant plume, same thrust and ISPs, same everything! That is how the origin of a missile is caught.

​	Hwasong-7​	Paektusan-1​	Ghauri-I​	Hwasong-8​	Ghauri-II​
Length total	~15.9 m	-	~15.9 m	~16.6 m	~17.9 m
Length without warhead/guidance	~11.5 m	~11.5 m	~11.5 m	~13.5 m	~13.5 m
Diameter	1.25 m	1.25 m	1.25 m	1.25 m	1.25 m
Propellant	UDMH/AK-27+​	UDMH/N2O4​	UDMH/N2O4​	UDMH/N2O4​
Mass propellant (t)	12.912	11.151*)	12.912	14.670	14.670
Engine
Thrust s.l. (kN)	279.8	279.8	279.8	279.8	279.8
Thrust vac (kN)	309.2	309.2	309.2	309.2	309.2
Isp s.l. (Ns/kg)	2383	2383	2383	2383	2383
Isp vac (Ns/kg)	2633	2633	2633	2633	2633
Burn time, nominal (sec)	110	95	110	125	125
Total vacuum impulse (MNs)	34.0	29.4	34.0	38.6	38.6

Please do the same for Fattah and tell us which Russian/Chinese/American/French system it is based upon?

But you just need a common sense to determine the reality. It's like when suddenly your poor friend buys a luxury car we all know whether it's some black money or he committed some robbery. We don't need a documented proof here.

Again, the uninformed trolling.

Fattah comes from the same series of missiles that Iran has been producing for 30+ years now. Zelzal-I was the proto ancestor of this family from 1980s ROFL and Kheybar-Shikan is a Skip Glide Vehicle tested 4 years ago on which Fattah is based. Same family of missiles coming out of same laboratory.

Please provide evidence that Russia has the same dia, length, and guidance system, trajectory bearer missiles.

http://www.b14643.de/Spacerockets/Specials/Soleimani-missile/index.htm

I agree Iran has good scientists but still a country like Iran is far away from developing hypesonics on it's own especially when it's a relatively new tech and only few top global powers have it.

Iran has more R&D output and STEM grads compared to Western countries you will give your arm and a leg to get a visa. So your entire claim of a "country like Iran" can not develop hypersonic missiles is based upon naivety and nothing else. You should stop making conspiracies and conjectures and use evidence otherwise you will suffer badly in your professional life, I am telling you.

Where is Russia in this list? I see no Russia?

But it's still a big achievement for Iran to get it from Russia , that will put isreal in check. Congratulations.

Provide evidence in terms of motor, length, diameter, and trajectory that Russia owns a similar system like Fattah or continue being ridiculed like how you are being right now, you claimed something and you have ZERO, ZERO literally, evidence for it. Is that how your parents raised you to make claims without any evidence or backup?

Now don't quote me again and stop arguing. Period...

I can do that as much as I want, you should have been careful paddling a stupid conspiracy theory on a subject that you have no knowledge about.

 

[TheImmortal]

a delta wing hgv have more surface control than Fat'tah so i see no problem here

Switching to delta wing would be same distance depending on the # of skip maneuvers it does.

Motor instead of speeding up to evade (fattah), will use energy to course correct (after skips).

You are going to need a bigger missile to get the range you want or more powerful second stage engine. All will lead to higher cost.

Blended body has lower RCS than either Fattah warhead or delta wing. More lift. Issue is cost.

 

[aryobarzan]

ROFL, You think because you do not know something about a subject then no one knows anything about that subject. That is not how the world works.

Nuclear proliferation by Dr. Khan's theft of centrifuge designs from his employer in Nederlands (URENCO) URENCO is as well documented as it gets. You need to read IAEA's official statement on the subject.

https://www.38north.org/2011/06/heinonen062211/

Dr. Abdolqadir Khan stole two centrifuge designs from his employers in Nederlands (URENCO) who owned the patents before Khan even got job in URENCO. One design was called CNOR which khan smuggled to Pakistan and this became P-1 in Pakistan then L-1 in DPRK. 2nd design he stole was G2 which became P-2 in Pakistan and L-2 in DPRK simultaneously in late 1990s. Khan was even charged with theft in Nederlands for this long before proliferation network was discovered. You for whatever reason have been living under a rock.



You are uninformed does not mean everyone is. The North Korean origin of Pakistani Ghori series of Missiles (Ghori = A Tajik conquerer of India, clever name) is well documented. Same lengths of stages, same diameter of motors, same propellant plume, same thrust and ISPs, same everything! That is how the origin of a missile is caught.

View attachment 934058

​	Hwasong-7​	Paektusan-1​	Ghauri-I​	Hwasong-8​	Ghauri-II​
Length total	~15.9 m	-	~15.9 m	~16.6 m	~17.9 m
Length without warhead/guidance	~11.5 m	~11.5 m	~11.5 m	~13.5 m	~13.5 m
Diameter	1.25 m	1.25 m	1.25 m	1.25 m	1.25 m
Propellant	UDMH/AK-27+​	UDMH/N2O4​	UDMH/N2O4​	UDMH/N2O4​
Mass propellant (t)	12.912	11.151*)	12.912	14.670	14.670
Engine
Thrust s.l. (kN)	279.8	279.8	279.8	279.8	279.8
Thrust vac (kN)	309.2	309.2	309.2	309.2	309.2
Isp s.l. (Ns/kg)	2383	2383	2383	2383	2383
Isp vac (Ns/kg)	2633	2633	2633	2633	2633
Burn time, nominal (sec)	110	95	110	125	125
Total vacuum impulse (MNs)	34.0	29.4	34.0	38.6	38.6

Please do the same for Fattah and tell us which Russian/Chinese/American/French system it is based upon?



Again, the uninformed trolling.

Fattah comes from the same series of missiles that Iran has been producing for 30+ years now. Zelzal-I was the proto ancestor of this family from 1980s ROFL and Kheybar-Shikan is a Skip Glide Vehicle tested 4 years ago on which Fattah is based. Same family of missiles coming out of same laboratory.

Please provide evidence that Russia has the same dia, length, and guidance system, trajectory bearer missiles.

http://www.b14643.de/Spacerockets/Specials/Soleimani-missile/index.htm



Iran has more R&D output and STEM grads compared to Western countries you will give your arm and a leg to get a visa. So your entire claim of a "country like Iran" can not develop hypersonic missiles is based upon naivety and nothing else. You should stop making conspiracies and conjectures and use evidence otherwise you will suffer badly in your professional life, I am telling you.

Where is Russia in this list? I see no Russia?



Provide evidence in terms of motor, length, diameter, and trajectory that Russia owns a similar system like Fattah or continue being ridiculed like how you are being right now, you claimed something and you have ZERO, ZERO literally, evidence for it. Is that how your parents raised you to make claims without any evidence or backup?



I can do that as much as I want, you should have been careful paddling a stupid conspiracy theory on a subject that you have no knowledge about.

Boy you murdered this guy with info...lol he will have nightmare for few nights..lol

 

[Hack-Hook]

Switching to delta wing would be same distance depending on the # of skip maneuvers it does.

Motor instead of speeding up to evade (fattah), will use energy to course correct (after skips).

You are going to need a bigger missile to get the range you want or more powerful second stage engine. All will lead to higher cost.

Blended body has lower RCS than either Fattah warhead or delta wing. More lift. Issue is cost.

a delta wing with the engine in fattah solve your problem , there is no reason that deltawing can't be powered

 

[TheImmortal]

a delta wing with the engine in fattah solve your problem , there is no reason that deltawing can't be powered

That won’t increase range from 1400KM to 4000KM+ to reach Diego Garcia (4200KM away).

Come on now

 

[fitpOsitive]

View attachment 933106View attachment 933107View attachment 933108View attachment 933109View attachment 933110
View attachment 933102View attachment 933103View attachment 933104View attachment 933105

Mashallah Iran. You made my day. May Allah protect Iran.
Please please do 2 more things
1) Make your ties with Turkey and Saudia strong.
2) Test your device and delivery system asap ( and take Saudia and Turkey in confidence just after doing it).

 

[kingQamaR]

ROFL, You think because you do not know something about a subject then no one knows anything about that subject. That is not how the world works.

Nuclear proliferation by Dr. Khan's theft of centrifuge designs from his employer in Nederlands (URENCO) URENCO is as well documented as it gets. You need to read IAEA's official statement on the subject.

https://www.38north.org/2011/06/heinonen062211/

Dr. Abdolqadir Khan stole two centrifuge designs from his employers in Nederlands (URENCO) who owned the patents before Khan even got job in URENCO. One design was called CNOR which khan smuggled to Pakistan and this became P-1 in Pakistan then L-1 in DPRK. 2nd design he stole was G2 which became P-2 in Pakistan and L-2 in DPRK simultaneously in late 1990s. Khan was even charged with theft in Nederlands for this long before proliferation network was discovered. You for whatever reason have been living under a rock.



You are uninformed does not mean everyone is. The North Korean origin of Pakistani Ghori series of Missiles (Ghori = A Tajik conquerer of India, clever name) is well documented. Same lengths of stages, same diameter of motors, same propellant plume, same thrust and ISPs, same everything! That is how the origin of a missile is caught.

View attachment 934058

​	Hwasong-7​	Paektusan-1​	Ghauri-I​	Hwasong-8​	Ghauri-II​
Length total	~15.9 m	-	~15.9 m	~16.6 m	~17.9 m
Length without warhead/guidance	~11.5 m	~11.5 m	~11.5 m	~13.5 m	~13.5 m
Diameter	1.25 m	1.25 m	1.25 m	1.25 m	1.25 m
Propellant	UDMH/AK-27+​	UDMH/N2O4​	UDMH/N2O4​	UDMH/N2O4​
Mass propellant (t)	12.912	11.151*)	12.912	14.670	14.670
Engine
Thrust s.l. (kN)	279.8	279.8	279.8	279.8	279.8
Thrust vac (kN)	309.2	309.2	309.2	309.2	309.2
Isp s.l. (Ns/kg)	2383	2383	2383	2383	2383
Isp vac (Ns/kg)	2633	2633	2633	2633	2633
Burn time, nominal (sec)	110	95	110	125	125
Total vacuum impulse (MNs)	34.0	29.4	34.0	38.6	38.6

Please do the same for Fattah and tell us which Russian/Chinese/American/French system it is based upon?



Again, the uninformed trolling.

Fattah comes from the same series of missiles that Iran has been producing for 30+ years now. Zelzal-I was the proto ancestor of this family from 1980s ROFL and Kheybar-Shikan is a Skip Glide Vehicle tested 4 years ago on which Fattah is based. Same family of missiles coming out of same laboratory.

Please provide evidence that Russia has the same dia, length, and guidance system, trajectory bearer missiles.

http://www.b14643.de/Spacerockets/Specials/Soleimani-missile/index.htm



Iran has more R&D output and STEM grads compared to Western countries you will give your arm and a leg to get a visa. So your entire claim of a "country like Iran" can not develop hypersonic missiles is based upon naivety and nothing else. You should stop making conspiracies and conjectures and use evidence otherwise you will suffer badly in your professional life, I am telling you.

Where is Russia in this list? I see no Russia?



Provide evidence in terms of motor, length, diameter, and trajectory that Russia owns a similar system like Fattah or continue being ridiculed like how you are being right now, you claimed something and you have ZERO, ZERO literally, evidence for it. Is that how your parents raised you to make claims without any evidence or backup?



I can do that as much as I want, you should have been careful paddling a stupid conspiracy theory on a subject that you have no knowledge about.

often your love of DR A Qadeer Khan gets the credit from you Iranians but actually there are many bright nuclear scientists and mathematicians that helped pave the way. This includes a Pakistani scientist that worked on the Manhattan project in the US before returning to Pakistan.

ask for a refund from Khan associates that you have not succeeded in passing his course you chaps enrolled on with him guaranteeing you would end of the course get your little toy, Big fail I know

Muslim Ummah Zindabad

 

[Mehdipersian]

Rip
https://s8.uupload.ir/files/polish_20230613_170040291_16gm.jpg

 

[drmeson]

often your love of DR A Qadeer Khan gets the credit from you Iranians but actually there are many bright nuclear scientists and mathematicians that helped pave the way. This includes a Pakistani scientist that worked on the Manhattan project in the US before returning to Pakistan.

Teenager-level trash talk does not change the IAEA's official stated fact that DUTCH patented URENO CNOR Centrifuge = IR-1 (Iran), L-1 (DPRK), P-2 (Pakistan), and GERMAN Patented G2 = IR-2 (Iran), P-2 (Pakistan), L-2 (DPRK). Calling DUtch CNOR and GERMAN G-2 designs "Pakistani Technology" is theft of intellectual property and nothing else. Khan himself accepted the theft in his life and was even tried in Dutch court for that.

https://nuclearweaponarchive.org/Pakistan/AQKhan.html

CNOR and G-2 proliferation is well documented by IAEA.

https://www.iranwatch.org/our-publications/articles-reports/beyond-ir-1-irans-advanced-centrifuges-their-lasting-implications

So we paid the former URENCO employee and got our product which he smuggled out of his place of employment in Nederlands. We retired IR-1 (Dutch CNOR) and IR-2 (German G-2) in 1990s and moved to indigenous C fiber IR-4/IR-6 in 2000-2010s which are shorter, C- fiber made 10-20 times more efficient machines.

Khan was just a businessman for us, he could have been a Kenyan national, we would have still paid him for his smuggling of blueprints out of URENCO-Nederlands, that is how intelligence works. 35 years ago we needed the western centrifuge designs.

35 years later we are in the top elite club of Science Technology Engineering Medical R&D output in the world, Nuclear weaponry is political and nothing else. Japan, Korea, and Germany can produce 1000 Fission warheads if they want to be first world economic and scientific powerhouses but they would not because of political reasons. Our case is no different. 0.4 Million STEM grads a year, we can produce antimatter bombs if we want, but we won't, Turkey, Brazil, Korea, Italy, KSA, none would.

Boy you murdered this guy with info...lol he will have nightmare for few nights..lol