Iran unveils hypersonic weapon 'Fattah'

[ReasonableStar75]

You didn't even read my posts.

How many times do I have to say it? It's about Iran attacking and destroying most of Israel's military bases and civilian infastracture. I said if Iran does that,then most of the Western Europeans and many other countries in the world,USA,Canada,Australia and whoever else,would consider Iran as the biggest threat and annihilate it.

They would do anything to stop the "rogue mullah regime with strong ballistic missiles that can now hit everywhere". Imagine the headlines "A new Jewish Holocaust,left defensless on the mercy of Iran" etc etc

How would the Americans react to that? And most of the other Western Europeans and other countries around the world. They would think "We can let them progress any more.They're already a threat".

I am not gonna respond you again, it s useless. I say you, if Iran attacks Israel it would keep conventional war, Israel nor any other country on behalf os Israel would attack with nuclear bombs on Iran, because Iran ahs the power ot retalaite in kind, no one in the west wants to be destroyed. Period.

I think in 5 years, Israel will make unconditional peace with palestinians, they have no other choice, iran is stronger by the day and always will be, they reach the treshold of a military superpower, and all military experts will recognize this, even israeli.

You can like or not,this doesn t make difference.

 

[Foinikas]

I am not gonna respond you again, it s useless. I say you, if Iran attacks Israel it would keep conventional war, Israel nor any other country on behalf os Israel would attack with nuclear bombs on Iran, because Iran ahs the power ot retalaite in kind, no one in the west wants to be destroyed. Period.

I think in 5 years, Israel will make unconditional peace with palestinians, they have no other choice, iran is stronger by the day and always will be, they reach the treshold of a military superpower, and all military experts will recognize this, even israeli.

You can like or not,this doesn t make difference.

Good,don't reply to me then.

You overestimate Iran's power to retaliate and defend against a big attack by nuclear countries. That's all I'm saying. As for Israelis,they will not make peace. They get more and more arrogant.

 

[HGV]

With 11 BMs against Al Assad airbase (no air-defence) how much damage did that do? Airbases are massive sprawling sites with hundreds of targets

^^ Al Assad airbase is one of the largest airbases in the entire Middle East and during the Iranian attack it didn't have combat aircrafts in hardened shelters that could have been directly targeted by hypersonic missiles....but attack on that EMPTY airbase with 11 BMs caused 200 brain injuries on US personnel, even despite the fact US troops were in shelters during the attack

100 headaches with no air defence and a few small tents destroyed only

they didn't have hardened shelters there, only old shelters

^^ Shahed-136 has low infrared signature, low radar signature, flies low, is small and difficult to intercept.....but even if there will be 90% interception rate -the cost of interceptors are much higher than the 20K$ cost of Shahed-136---so you can overwhelm enemy defenses by large quantities of cheap Shahed-136s

Agreed

^^ NATO standard hardened aircraft shelters can survive direct hit by 220kg bomb and they will be destroyed by 500kg HGV impacting at Mach 15.

The key here is 5m precision that was unavailable some 6 years ago.

Agree but there is a difference between destroying an aircraft shelter and destroying an airbase

CEP of 5m seems very unlikely, it wasn't achieved even with Fateh-313 at c.400km range

 

[AnArabianChocolateHorse]

The real Dodool Talal of Iran

 

[Messerschmitt]

https://twitter.com/x/status/1666903083400454165

https://twitter.com/x/status/1666903089234731019

 

[drmeson]

I am a realist not a fanboy like you.

You are a troll paddling conspiracy theories without any evidence or even basis. No one did it here except you.

Now please provide the evidence. You openly said this system is provided to Iran by Russia despite the fact that not even a remotely similar motor, or thrust stage is ever shown let alone operated by Russia. Also despite the fact that the predecessor of Fattah is a Skip Glide Vehicle called Kheybar Shikan tested by IRGC years ago ... You have evidence, where is it?

(I do not expect you to, because the law of real-life applies to the internet world as well. People always humiliate themselves by opening their mouths on subjects they do not understand)

Yes, I am accepting the reality that Pakistan is in no position to develop hypersonics as we speak.

I have zero interest in what Pakistan has or not. This is an Iranian thread.

These are your answers, i don't like posting like this, it reminds me of MMM-E guy but inevitably so,

Iranian made helicopters including Cobra-clone Toofan made by HESA
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Trasnpo helicopter in the background
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Taxi tests of Qaher with new modifications, radar absorbent material, hidden engines and new design as a testbed for future fighter jets development
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Karrar MBT, army and IRGC will receive at least 800 units of them when they prepare their resources to import from defense ministry
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Gaza drone with Iranian made components
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Iranian made Bavar-373 long range air defense system
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Iranian made cruise missile Hoveyzeh, land attack version with homemade turbofan engine. Specifically designed to target Israel and American bases around
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Anti ship cruise missile Abu-Mahdi. 1,000 Km range
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Jet engine made in Iran
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Iranian MRAP, 2 versions Ra'ad and Toophan
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Ra'ad-2 self propelled Hwitzer, clone to American M-109
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Fajr-5 precise MLRS
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Arash sniper rifle, capable of targeting drones and helicopters
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AIP equipped Fateh submarine
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Etc etc etc

What you have posted for trolling purposes, are not products of defense ministry or IRGC, they are produced by local producers, private entities and curious students in private companies.

Btw, considering the draconian sanctions imposed on Iran, even if we suppose Iranian products in few cases are copies of other platforms, conclusion would be that Iran makes them from scratch and without foreign aid which itself is an outstanding development.

To put it mildly, you had some angry intercourse with this troll @Foinikas. ROFL
He thought we ranking in the top 10 STEM R&D outputs in the world, sending satellites into orbits, firing TVC long-range SAMs, shooting Cruise missiles at 2500 KM and selling UCAVS, missiles to Superpower Russia, would have no MBT. What a tool.

Iran has an ever-expanding active military-industrial complex and this troll @Foinikas wants to object to that. Greece/Grease has an industry too, it's called begging NATO for help and the EU for cash industry because MF'ers have nothing of their own. That is their economic plan to counter external debt of of 350 Billion USD ROFL. I respected and even argued in favor of Greece before here even when Turkish members were attacking anything Greek, but no more. No mercy on yunani azzz.

 

[drmeson]

https://twitter.com/x/status/1666903083400454165

https://twitter.com/x/status/1666903089234731019

Comparing Khinzal with Fattah is like comparing red apples with green apples

Khinzal is an unseparating vehicle with no dual exo/endoatmospheric steering, the KE comes from a high-speed booster while Fattah has exo/endo steering mechanism and the KE comes from the second-stage motor which Khinzal lacks.

The only similarity in them in the glide trajectory and hypersonic speeds.

 

[SecularNationalist]

I have zero interest in what Pakistan has or not. This is an Iranian thread.

And don't ask such questions you moron.

 

[scimitar19]

Comparing Khinzal with Fattah is like comparing red apples with green apples

Khinzal is an unseparating vehicle with no dual exo/endoatmospheric steering, the KE comes from a high-speed booster while Fattah has exo/endo steering mechanism and the KE comes from the second-stage motor which Khinzal lacks.

The only similarity in them in the glide trajectory and hypersonic speeds.

Not an expert in this field but isn't Kinzal air launched version while Fattah is actual launched from ground.
Kinzal is more bulkier than Fattah since it is a single stage missile and has greater RCS in comparison to Fattah
after its first stage gets separated.

Diameter of both missiles seem to be "same" and it should rise a question whether the next logical step would be to design Fattah in the air launched variant which could be an interesting idea.

 

[Hack-Hook]

Not an expert in this field but isn't Kinzal air launched version while Fattah is actual launched from ground.
Kinzal is more bulkier than Fattah since it is a single stage missile and has greater RCS in comparison to Fattah
after its first stage gets separated.

Diameter of both missiles seem to be "same" and it should rise a question whether the next logical step would be to design Fattah in the air launched variant which could be an interesting idea.

to me the next logical steps would be changing the shape of the glide vehicle to something more glidable so the range of the missile increase above 2000km
we don't have any airplane capable of carrying such heavy loads so why waste our time building an air launched version of the missile

Though Pakistan in near future may get it from China.Just like Iran got from Russia.

a question , what is the similarity between kinzhal and Fat'tah ?
does kinzhal have separating warhead ?
does it powered in course of its flight?
does these missiles have the same guidance system ?
do their warhead look similar ?

 

[TheImmortal]

to me the next logical steps would be changing the shape of the glide vehicle to something more glidable so the range of the missile increase above 2000km

Why would you need above 2000KM? Almost all Iran’s Missiles bases in the west of Iran. It can safely reach Israel. You can go above 2000KM easily by reducing warhead.

A blended body is likely in testing, only problem is controlling such a body becomes difficult at times with no fins. A slight loss of control (at Mach 15-20+) will cause glide vehicle to pull too many G’s and explode or disintegrate from heat/pressure.

Cost also becomes an issue —> missile needs to be less than $5M for conventional warhead —> Kinzhal is $10M (reportedly) and that is not even a HGV.

US hypersonics are estimated to cost 40-90M each if ever they reach mass production.

Will be very difficult for iran to build a 3000KM true HGV no fins body for a cheap price. Thus it might be fielded in very limited numbers (100-250) and used to take out VERY high value targets during the war.

You could likely buy 10 Kheibar Shekan for every one Future Iranian HGV

 

[Stryker1982]

Why would you need above 2000KM? Almost all Iran’s Missiles bases in the west of Iran. It can safely reach Israel. You can go above 2000KM easily by reducing warhead.

A blended body is likely in testing, only problem is controlling such a body becomes difficult at times with no fins. A slight loss of control (at Mach 15-20+) will cause glide vehicle to pull too many G’s and explode or disintegrate from heat/pressure.

Cost also becomes an issue —> missile needs to be less than $5M for conventional warhead —> Kinzhal is $10M (reportedly) and that is not even a HGV.

US hypersonics are estimated to cost 40-90M each if ever they reach mass production.

Will be very difficult for iran to build a 3000KM true HGV no fins body for a cheap price. Thus it might be fielded in very limited numbers (100-250) and used to take out VERY high value targets during the war.

You could likely buy 10 Kheibar Shekan for every one Future Iranian HGV

Complete truth. Can't afford it, not even close with those price tags, not even worth it or needed. Even anywhere near 5mil a piece would be considered too high.

Their path probably isn't going to go to what is known as a true HGV but with this new missile they are taking the right alternative path with the limited financial resources available.

 

[Hack-Hook]

Why would you need above 2000KM? Almost all Iran’s Missiles bases in the west of Iran. It can safely reach Israel. You can go above 2000KM easily by reducing warhead.

i want it for Diego Garcia. and why reduce the power when you can make it aerodynamically more suitable for gliding
also a delta wing hgv can be controlled easily and provide far more lift so we can made the second engine burn slower and get the same effect while reaching longer range

 

[TheImmortal]

i want it for Diego Garcia. and why reduce the power when you can make it aerodynamically more suitable for gliding

Diego Garcia is overrated. It can be taken out by Khorramshahr-4.

By the time the next generation B-2 is launched Diego Garcia will no longer be used to store them as their range will increase and they can be deployed further away.

also a delta wing hgv can be controlled easily

“easily” relative to a no fin HGV. But you think it’s easy steering a Mach 20 object thru the upper atmosphere with limited control surfaces? Do you know how long it took for Iran just to master flying wing design? How many prototypes crashed? That was flying at 300 mph with a human operator providing input.

A blended body will be too expensive for conventional design at long ranges. And blended body’s have lower terminal velocity so that’s a trade off.

Even DF-17 has an estimated range of less than 1800KM. Less than Iran’s Fattah missile btw.

provide far more lift so we can made the second engine burn slower and get the same effect while reaching longer range

No, now you will need bigger engine to provide off-setting corrections (similar to Khorramshahr-4 warhead) because you HAVE NO TRUE CONTROL SURFACES. The engine will need to be even more powerful because it needs to be able to counteract gravity forces on a Mach 20 object.

In case of K-4 it’s a MARV trajectory the warhead only uses it during re-entry for course correction. In case of Future HGV it will need to use the engine any time it “skips” since the trajectory will constantly be changing upon each skip and glide phase. Thus more powerful engine with more fuel/gases needed. Some designs use an “air breathing” engine for the oxidizer to reduce weight of extra fuel.

You think magically something with limited control surfaces bounces up and down (skip trajectory) due to “lift” while staying perfectly on course? Do you understand basic physics?

Less control surfaces + faster speed = need for power powerful engine to provide course corrections to the HGV via the onboard computer.


Good luck building a 3000KM blended body HGV that can go ~Mach 20 on a <5M dollar cost per missile. You are talking about $20-25M missile potentially maybe even more.

Some of you think Iran is Santa’s Workshop and everything has zero cost to build or research.

 

[drmeson]

And don't ask such questions you moron.

Ok troll, we are all still waiting for your "evidence" on "Russia supplied Iran with Fattah". You made the claim, we did not, actually no one did except you.

Life Lesson for you: Never open your mouth to things you do not understand or can not back up.