Iran unveils hypersonic weapon 'Fattah'

[NooriNuth]

It's a MARV. Same as Pershing.
What's new about it?
May be propulsion in the warhead?
But not Hypersonic glide vehicle as it doesn't glide, just maneuvers under power.
The video shows a Quasi Ballistic missile. Which goes on depressed trajectory, then ballistic path and then the payload stage is powered and performing maneuvers under power.
This is not HGV or Hypersonic glide vehicle as boasted by China and Russia.
What's the range?
Seems short to medium range

 

[HGV]

So how exactly did Iran manage to build a modern submarine with "state-of-the-art" technology? Either Iran is way better than everyone in the world thought or you guys had some serious help.

Again you try to shift the goalposts. You initially referred to Iranian weapons systems as "reverse-engineered copies" of foreign systems.

So I ask you once more: which foreign systems are Fattah, Sejjil, Fateh, Raad-500 ... etc based on. I will wait.

 

[Foinikas]

Again you try to shift the goalposts. You initially referred to Iranian weapons systems as "reverse-engineered copies" of foreign systems.

So I ask you once more: which foreign systems are Fattah, Sejjil, Fateh, Raad-500 ... etc based on. I will wait.

Did I say "all" are reverse-engineered?

 

[Mehdipersian]

It's a MARV. Same as Pershing.
What's new about it?
May be propulsion in the warhead?
But not Hypersonic glide vehicle as it doesn't glide, just maneuvers under power.
The video shows a Quasi Ballistic missile. Which goes on depressed trajectory, then ballistic path and then the payload stage is powered and performing maneuvers under power.
This is not HGV or Hypersonic glide vehicle as boasted by China and Russia.
What's the range?
Seems short to medium range

Its not MARV.
Did you even know whats MARV?
This missile can Maneuver most of it's flight in every direction.

 

[Mehdipersian]

Fattah is a new technology and first of it's kind.

Iran’s Fattah hypersonic missile: real threat and technological challenge

Iran’s Fattah hypersonic missile: real threat and technological challenge By Arie Egozi Photo: Tasnim News Agency. Israeli experts analyzed the data related to the new hypersonic missile developed by Iran and concluded that it is a very real threat to Israel and may pose a threat to some...

defence.pk

 

[NooriNuth]

Its not MARV.
Did you even know whats MARV?
This missile can Maneuver most of it's flight in every direction.

Yes. That's why I mentioned Quasi Ballistic

 

[shadihassan28]

So how exactly did Iran manage to build a modern submarine with "state-of-the-art" technology? Either Iran is way better than everyone in the world thought or you guys had some serious help.

everyone knows decades ago iran received midget subs from North Korea and honestly give iran credit I think they are far ahead of North Korea, Koreans like to go big but usually ends up a big failure iran starts off small and gradually goes from there, slow and steady wins the race, I really don’t see Russian or Chinese collaborating on any big projects in iran vice versa iran is building factories in Russia. Also really not trying to get into a debate here one way or the other, just stating a few nuggets of truth trying to stay out of topics for the most part it has become a little to toxic no offense to anyone.

 

[TheImmortal]

Yes. That's why I mentioned Quasi Ballistic

Quasi Ballistic is a term used for missiles that fly a ballistic path solely inside the earth’s atmosphere.

 

[drmeson]

It's a MARV. Same as Pershing.

MaRV can go hypersonic too. There is no law that says to be hypersonic, the RV should have no lateral manuverability.

What's new about it?

Combination of:

- Hypersonic terminal + High Burnout V
- Dual system for accuracy i.e. Post boost correction + MaRV for terminal correction
- Skip Glide or Glide trajectory

May be propulsion in the warhead?

See the pics, the MaRV is TVC

But not Hypersonic glide vehicle as it doesn't glide, just maneuvers under power.

Provide evidence that it does not glide.

The video shows a Quasi Ballistic missile. Which goes on depressed trajectory,

then ballistic path

and then the payload stage is powered and performing maneuvers under power.

False, the video shows a depressed boost with corrections then simulated glide then the target being struck creating a shockwave.

Nowhere it shows or even hints a conventional Ballistic path. A burnout velocity of 13-15 Mach with a ballistic trajectory will result in a range exceeding 2500 KM. The range of 1400 K with such high burnout velocity points towards an extreme departure from even quasi ballistic trajectory.

What's the range?

1400 KM.

Seems short to medium range

Air launched Khinzal is 2000 KM. Fattah from ground launch is 1400 KM. Big deal?

 

[Muhammad Saftain Anjum]

2nd stage booster means no ABM can stop this guy

Booster in the final stage means following things:

1)The first stage engine is not powerful enough to give enough kinetic energy to the war head to glide like chinese DF 17 glider.
2) Iran lacks in Aerodynamic surface control technology to develop a flight control system that can sustain the flight of war-head without any sustained push by booster

Disadvantages of having a booster in final Warhead:
It will skyrocket its RCS due to massive heat signature resulting in continuous trackingby radar systems.

A true boosterless glider relies only on the kinetic energy provided by first stage engine so it has significantly lower RCS leading to difficulty in continuous tracking of glider Warhead



Just my two cents these may be totally wrong

@Thelmmortal

 

[drmeson]

Booster in the final stage means following things:

This statement is factually wrong.

Booster is not "in the final stage" (your quote).

The boost phase is primarily before first stage separation where mid course correction starts.

1)The first stage engine is not powerful enough to give enough kinetic energy to the war head to glide like chinese DF 17 glider.

Total KE of a hypersonic weapon does not only come from first stage engine. It comes from Burnout Velocity + KE gathered in Skip/Steady or Skip+Steady trajectory which is why the vehicle is called "glide".

Fattah's Total KE comes from three sources

1) A very high Burnout V of 13-15 Mach from Depressed boost phase
(previously seens in Zolfaghar AShBM, Khyber Shikan Skip-GV, Qassem)
2) Skips, Glides to gain more KE
(Previously Khyber Shikan Skip-GV, Qassem)
3) Powered RV (TVC-MaRV)
(used in almost all Space Launching Vehicles SLVs of Iran, IRBMs Sejjil II/III, K-2/4, AShBM of IRGC)

That results in a terminal V of 8 Mach which qualifies for hypersonic classification.

P.S. Also provide evidence in form of Specific Impulse (Isp) that "first stage engine is not powerful enough to give enough kinetic energy" (Your direct qoute).

2) Iran lacks in Aerodynamic surface control technology to develop a flight control system that can sustain the flight of war-head without any sustained push by booster

You need to read before you post. Iran has been testing+inducting missiles with MaRVs/TVC-RVs for 15+ years now. Every single missile of Iran is a separating RV with:

1) Endoatmospheric corrections through Control surfaces + TVC + Lateral Gas thrusters for CEP less than 10m.
2) Exoatmospheric corrections through Gas thrusters and vanes for mid-course corrections

Fattah is equipped with both for extreme level accuracy if required. without lateral correction it will gain even more speed (without glide, with a burnout V of 15 Mach, it will reach borderline IRBM ranges).

Here are some examples of Iranian control mechanism for missiles.

Gas thrusters of Khorramshahr-4 IRBM

Exo+Endo TVC + Control surfaces MaRV of Ghadr MRBM (Labelling Credit @Patarames)

Separating MaRV with control surfaces of Khyber Shikan (predecessor to Fattah, was a Skip glide vehicle perhaps)

This is a 15 year old Entire Solid-Staged IRBM of Iran called Sejjil II/III. Even this has a separating MaRV for low CEP.

Disadvantages of having a booster in final Warhead:
It will skyrocket its RCS due to massive heat signature resulting in continuous trackingby radar systems.

It means nothing in the case of Fattah because it's a separating MaRV system, the booster stage separates much before. I think you do not know that modern missiles have to separate RVs.

A true boosterless glider relies only on the kinetic energy provided by first stage engine so it has significantly lower RCS leading to difficulty in continuous tracking of glider Warhead

There is no law that says to be hypersonic, the RV should have no lateral maneuverability. MaRV can go hypersonic too for accuracy (Lateral acceleration) and KE (Linear acceleration).

You are getting into the same cycle of confusion that one indian member was in earlier in this thread. Hypersonic weapons have less to do with the shapes of RV. It has more to do with

1) Hypersonic speed in the terminal phase (Fattah 8 mach)
2) Skip+Steady glide (Fattah does that)

American Hypersonic RV

Iranian Hypersonic RV

 

[Hero786]

Iran is wasting its resources for Arabs war.

How will Iran fight with Israel who is nuclear power?

 

[Hack-Hook]

Iran is wasting its resources for Arabs war.

How will Iran fight with Israel who is nuclear power?

how Ukraine ought Russia which is a nuclear power or how Vietnam fought nuclear powered USA or Afghanistan managed to fight USA

 

[Hero786]

how Ukraine ought Russia which is a nuclear power or how Vietnam fought nuclear powered USA or Afghanistan managed to fight USA

1) Vietnam defeated US, because Chinese entered in Vietnam to fight US, there was danger of US, US forces were coming near China.

2)

After 9/11: Same, In Afghanistan, US came for China, Russia. So Russians weapons, Chinese money and Pakistani mullah of Madrasahs defeated them.

Soviet Days: US, NATO + Arabs supplied weapons+ money and Pakistan mullahs to defeat Soviets (Russia). Reason to support Pakistan was Soviets might disrupt trade route of US, EU from Pakistani waters.

If we even look Syria, Russia came just to support his own interest as EU, US want to pipeline to EU from Qatar via Syria. If this happened. EU was not getting Russians gas.

If we look Ukraine, if Russian win, Russia will be very close to EU,
If Ukraine win, NATO will have another territory to keep air bases and keep nukes there.

Iranis are living Fantasy world of Disney. Fight with nuclear power has same fate like Japan in WW2.

 

[LeGenD]

Diego Garcia is overrated. It can be taken out by Khorramshahr-4.

By the time the next generation B-2 is launched Diego Garcia will no longer be used to store them as their range will increase and they can be deployed further away.

Have you checked the map? Diego Garcia is located about 3000 miles away from Iran. Diego Garcia runway is massive as well, you cannot disable it with a limited ballistic missile strike.

This statement is factually wrong.

Booster is not "in the final stage" (your quote).

The boost phase is primarily before first stage separation where mid course correction starts.



Total KE of a hypersonic weapon does not only come from first stage engine. It comes from Burnout Velocity + KE gathered in Skip/Steady or Skip+Steady trajectory which is why the vehicle is called "glide".

View attachment 936252

Fattah's Total KE comes from three sources

1) A very high Burnout V of 13-15 Mach from Depressed boost phase
(previously seens in Zolfaghar AShBM, Khyber Shikan Skip-GV, Qassem)
2) Skips, Glides to gain more KE
(Previously Khyber Shikan Skip-GV, Qassem)
3) Powered RV (TVC-MaRV)
(used in almost all Space Launching Vehicles SLVs of Iran, IRBMs Sejjil II/III, K-2/4, AShBM of IRGC)

That results in a terminal V of 8 Mach which qualifies for hypersonic classification.

P.S. Also provide evidence in form of Specific Impulse (Isp) that "first stage engine is not powerful enough to give enough kinetic energy" (Your direct qoute).



You need to read before you post. Iran has been testing+inducting missiles with MaRVs/TVC-RVs for 15+ years now. Every single missile of Iran is a separating RV with:

1) Endoatmospheric corrections through Control surfaces + TVC + Lateral Gas thrusters for CEP less than 10m.
2) Exoatmospheric corrections through Gas thrusters and vanes for mid-course corrections

Fattah is equipped with both for extreme level accuracy if required. without lateral correction it will gain even more speed (without glide, with a burnout V of 15 Mach, it will reach borderline IRBM ranges).

Here are some examples of Iranian control mechanism for missiles.

Gas thrusters of Khorramshahr-4 IRBM

View attachment 936258

Exo+Endo TVC + Control surfaces MaRV of Ghadr MRBM (Labelling Credit @Patarames)

View attachment 936261

Separating MaRV with control surfaces of Khyber Shikan (predecessor to Fattah, was a Skip glide vehicle perhaps)
View attachment 936249
View attachment 936248

This is a 15 year old Entire Solid-Staged IRBM of Iran called Sejjil II/III. Even this has a separating MaRV for low CEP.

View attachment 936253



It means nothing in the case of Fattah because it's a separating MaRV system, the booster stage separates much before. I think you do not know that modern missiles have to separate RVs.



There is no law that says to be hypersonic, the RV should have no lateral maneuverability. MaRV can go hypersonic too for accuracy (Lateral acceleration) and KE (Linear acceleration).

You are getting into the same cycle of confusion that one indian member was in earlier in this thread. Hypersonic weapons have less to do with the shapes of RV. It has more to do with

1) Hypersonic speed in the terminal phase (Fattah 8 mach)
2) Skip+Steady glide (Fattah does that)

American Hypersonic RV

Iranian Hypersonic RV

Iran's Claims of Developing a Hypersonic Missile Raise Doubts • Stimson Center

Iran recently announced that it had developed a hypersonic missile that can fly at 15 times the speed of sound and defeat missile defense technologies. But there are doubts about whether this is real or propaganda

www.stimson.org

That American Hypersonic RV is a dummy, not real thing.