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IRAN: Sejil Missile Launch

Black Stone; SIR
How are you, how about your g-bomb?:rofl::rofl::rofl:
who said that," Iranians photoshopped one of their failed launches ", thats all negetive propaganda, AGAINST A NATION WHICH IS STANDING AGAINST A SUPERPOWER.
THATS IT!:partay:

Batmannow, I am fine and how are you?. What do you mean G-Bomb? and what is it's relation to this thread or the topic?. Is it because there is no other response you can give me?.

Anyways, inregards to the G-Bomb, that is a genuine topic from another thread and I didn't make it up, so I don't see any problems with it. Unfortunately, the thread was closed with no reasons given, interesting really.

Now back to my response, So you think the photoshop was propaganda?. Is it truely propaganda or just you sticking your head into the ground and pretend that never happened just like many patriot Iranians?. :)
 
Its mostly talk though due to the US military being overstretched Batmannow.

If Iraq and Afghanistan weren't US commitments then we'd be hearing very little from the Iranians.


may be so but unfortunately Iraq and Afghanistan has become a crule US military+ econimical (in that case its in a state of an epic dabecle in it self) commitments any ways my Sympathies are with you. :tsk:
 
It is true that the military is overstretched, but do you think that if the Iranians attack our ships, we will not retaliate and bomb them because we are "overstretched"?.

and why would they (iran) do that ? so that they (iran) can be bombed now as far as a
pre-emtive strike is concerned well you sayed it yes indeed you are "overstretched" sad but true.
 
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and why would they do that ? so they can be bombed now as far as a
pre-emtive strike is concerned well you sayed it indeed you are "overstretched" sorry but true.

The notion is according to many...that since we are bogged down in Afghanistan and Iraq with the military overstretched, we will not get into a conflict with the Iranians.

I am simply saying that is not the case should the war comes. Besides, I said IF the Iranians attacked.
 
Some of the weapons and tatics the US uses were first used by the Germans. Look at the helmets for example...Look a lot like the ones the Germans had in WWll. I think personally there is very little that is really new in the game of war, just modified.
 
U2 rockets were Germans engineered which USA and Britain reverse engineered.

OHHHHHHHHHHH NOOOOOOOOOOO the sceret is out:rofl:

Err no thats not what happened.

Bell telephone labs started a program in 1945 that developed into the NIKE missile.

Operation paperclip (the bringing over of German scientists) started in 1946

Ever heard of Robert Goddard? Or Jet propulsion labs? check their history. In short your assertion is wrong.
 
The notion is according to many...that since we are bogged down in Afghanistan and Iraq with the military overstretched, we will not get into a conflict with the Iranians.

I am simply saying that is not the case should the war comes. Besides, I said IF the Iranians attacked.

The US has the resources to wage a conflict but would it be effective?...with the US outcomes in Iraq and Afghanistan to be very poor....I mean look the conflict/insurgency is still continuing...despite all the 'state of the art' technology available to them....the results have not been impressive.

The US will find it a lot diificult in engaging a country that is much larger than Iraq or Afghanistan, and in current days...it has financial/recession problems...it is quite 'literally' bogged down in not very popular wars.....

I believe that the US has a lot to offer and could be seen as a 'leader' across the world....but if it continues with its ARROGANT/BULLY global tactics.....then...time will tell.....I believe it will be humbled...sooner or later!

Look at History...all great nations have come and gone....just read how they were destroyed.......primarily PRIDE and ARROGANCE!!!:smokin:
 
The US has the resources to wage a conflict but would it be effective?...with the US outcomes in Iraq and Afghanistan to be very poor....I mean look the conflict/insurgency is still continuing...despite all the 'state of the art' technology available to them....the results have not been impressive.

The US will find it a lot diificult in engaging a country that is much larger than Iraq or Afghanistan, and in current days...it has financial/recession problems...it is quite 'literally' bogged down in not very popular wars.....

I believe that the US has a lot to offer and could be seen as a 'leader' across the world....but if it continues with its ARROGANT/BULLY global tactics.....then...time will tell.....I believe it will be humbled...sooner or later!

Look at History...all great nations have come and gone....just read how they were destroyed.......primarily PRIDE and ARROGANCE!!!:smokin:

^^^^^Well said foxhound........appreciate nice highlights the fact, which i am sure, in favor of Americans too besides the globe, Wish American citizens can read the writing on the wall by analyzing the foot steps of their elites and recognize the facts to avoid the worst situation which may lead them towards nastiest pandemonium similar to third world or even more, for which obviously American nation is not prepared, though we knows its hard to accept such bitter but the reality and have to recognize it, but being a global citizen I would like to advise them sincerely that it's better to recognize before time has passed.

We as a whole Pakistani nation care for humanity with respects and regards to each individual of global community, we are in a phase of struggle and keep on trying to be developed, we knows better the real meanings of hardness by facing tough life surveillance as such we really don’t like the fall of any nation especially the developed nation faces such condition for which they are not prepared, as its quite hard to face and survive.

If any of American friend still reluctant to recognize, Please remember the recent severe crunch of financial crises, while as far social crises concerns you may Please check the report titled " Mental health injuries scar 300,000 U.S. troops" released by the RAND Corporation (An authenticated Institution for USA), I am quoting an concluding Para of such report here for reference (Friend may check it in detail report at Rand Corporation site and you may find it at this forum too as i have pasted 2 3 months earlier):

WASHINGTON - Some 300,000 U.S. troops are suffering from major depression or post-traumatic stress from serving in the wars in Iraq and Afghanistan, and 320,000 received brain injuries, a new study estimates.
Only about half have sought treatment, said the study released Thursday by the RAND Corporation.

So one may be able to easily understand that, The Financial + such huge numbers of unpleasant mental disorder can impact on their societies especially jeopardizing of socio-economy and defense, can help to realize it that how prolongation of offensive (WARS) imposes to other countries, does nastiest impact for the offensive country itself.
GOD BLESS US
 
Keysersoze;221150]Err no thats not what happened.

Bell telephone labs started a program in 1945 that developed into the NIKE missile.

As early as 1927 members of the German Rocket Society had started experimenting with liquid fueled rockets. By 1932 the Reichswehr started taking notice of their developments for potential long-range artillery use, and a team led by General Walter Dornberger was shown a test vehicle designed and flown by Wernher von Braun. Although the rocket was of limited ability, Dornberger saw Von Braun's genius and pushed for him to join the military.

Von Braun did just that, and eventually most of the other members of the Society did too. In December 1934 Von Braun scored another success with the flight of the A2 rocket, a small model powered by ethanol and liquid oxygen, with work on the design continuing to attempt to improve reliability.

By 1936 the team had moved on from the A2 and started work on both the A3 and A4. The later was a full sized design with a range of about 175 kilometers (109 miles), a top altitude of 80 kilometers (50 miles), and a payload of about a tonne. It was clear that Von Braun's designs were turning into real weapons, and Dornberger moved the team from Kummersdorf (near Berlin) to a small town, Peenemünde, on the island of Usedom on Germany's Baltic coast , in order to provide more room for testing and better secrecy.

i only posted part of the post to point out the dates if any body wants they can click the link and read it

V2-Rocket



Operation paperclip (the bringing over of German scientists) started in 1946

Ever heard of Robert Goddard? Or Jet propulsion labs? check their history. In short your assertion is wrong.
[/QUOTE]

All i no is you cant re invent the wheel spin it any way they like it was the Germans who invented v-2 rockets and lot of other weapons that have been modernized today. but history punishes the losers so spinning can go into any direction winner likes I.E Americans Russian and English for that matter.


Operation Paperclip Casefile
- Dossier Compiled by Agent Orange (Fri, 08 Aug 1997)
After WWII ended in 1945, victorious Russian and American intelligence teams began a treasure hunt throughout occupied Germany for military and scientific booty. They were looking for things like new rocket and aircraft designs, medicines, and electronics. But they were also hunting down the most precious "spoils" of all: the scientists whose work had nearly won the war for Germany. The engineers and intelligence officers of the Nazi War Machine.

The U.S. Military rounded up Nazi scientists and brought them to America. It had originally intended merely to debrief them and send them back to Germany. But when it realized the extent of the scientists knowledge and expertise, the War Department decided it would be a waste to send the scientists home. Following the discovery of flying discs (foo fighters), particle/laser beam weaponry in German military bases, the War Department decided that NASA and the CIA must control this technology, and the Nazi engineers that had worked on this technology.

There was only one problem: it was illegal. U.S. law explicitly prohibited Nazi officials from immigrating to America--and as many as three-quarters of the scientists in question had been committed Nazis.

Data-Points:
Convinced that German scientists could help America's postwar efforts, President Harry Truman agreed in September 1946 to authorize "Project Paperclip," a program to bring selected German scientists to work on America's behalf during the "Cold War"

However, Truman expressly excluded anyone found "to have been a member of the Nazi party and more than a nominal participant in its activities, or an active supporter of Naziism or militarism."

The War Department's Joint Intelligence Objectives Agency (JIOA) conducted background investigations of the scientists. In February 1947, JIOA Director Bosquet Wev submitted the first set of scientists' dossiers to the State and Justice Departments for review.

The Dossiers were damning. Samauel Klaus, the State Departments representative on the JIOA board, claimed that all the scientists in this first batch were "ardent Nazis." Their visa requests were denied.

Wev was furious. He wrote a memo warning that "the best interests of the United States have been subjugated to the efforts expended in 'beating a dead Nazi horse.'" He also declared that the return of these scientists to Germany, where they could be exploited by America's enemies, presented a "far greater security threat to this country than any former Nazi affiliations which they may have had or even any Nazi sympathies that they may still have."

When the JIOA formed to investigate the backgrounds and form dossiers on the Nazis, the Nazi Intelligence leader Reinhard Gehlen met with the CIA director Allen Dulles. Dulles and Gehlen hit it off immediatly. Gehlen was a master spy for the Nazis and had infiltrated Russia with his vast Nazi Intelligence network. Dulles promised Gehlen that his Intelligence unit was safe in the CIA.

Apparently, Wev decided to sidestep the problem. Dulles had the scientists dossier's re-written to eliminate incriminating evidence. As promised, Allen Dulles delivered the Nazi Intelligence unit to the CIA, which later opened many umbrella projects stemming from Nazi mad research. (MK-ULTRA / ARTICHOKE, OPERATION MIDNIGHT CLIMAX)

Military Intelligence "cleansed" the files of Nazi references. By 1955, more than 760 German scientists had been granted citizenship in the U.S. and given prominent positions in the American scientific community. Many had been longtime members of the Nazi party and the Gestapo, had conducted experiments on humans at concentration camps, had used slave labor, and had committed other war crimes.

In a 1985 expose in the Bulletin of the Atomic Scientists Linda Hunt wrote that she had examined more than 130 reports on Project Paperclip subjects--and every one "had been changed to eliminate the security threat classification."

President Truman, who had explicitly ordered no committed Nazis to be admitted under Project Paperclip, was evidently never aware that his directive had been violated. State Department archives and the memoirs of officials from that era confirm this. In fact, according to Clare[nce] Lasby's book [Project] Paperclip, project officials "covered their designs with such secrecy that it bedeviled their own President; at Potsdam he denied their activities and undoubtedly enhanced Russian suspicion and distrust," quite possibly fueling the Cold War even further.

A good example of how these dossiers were changed is the case of Wernher von Braun. A September 18, 1947, report on the German rocket scientist stated, "Subject is regarded as a potential security threat by the Military Governor."

The following February, a new security evaluation of Von Braun said, "No derogatory information is available on the subject...It is the opinion of the Military Governor that he may not constitute a security threat to the United States."

Here are a few of the 700 suspicious characters who were allowed to immigrate through Project Paperclip.

ARTHUR RUDOLPH
During the war, Rudolph was operations director of the Mittelwerk factory at the Dora-Nordhausen concentration camps, where 20,000 workers died from beatings, hangings, and starvation. Rudolph had been a member of the Nazi party since 1931; a 1945 military file on him said simply: "100% Nazi, dangerous type, security threat..!! Suggest internment."

But the JIOA's final dossier on him said there was "nothing in his records indicating that he was a war criminal or and ardent Nazi or otherwise objectionable." Rudolph became a US citizen and later designed the Saturn 5 rocket used in the Apollo moon landings. In 1984, when his war record was finally investigated, he fled to West Germany.

WERNHER VON BRAUN
From 1937 to 1945, von Braun was the technical director of the Peenemunde rocket research center, where the V-2 rocket --which devastated England--was developed. As noted previously, his dossier was rewritten so he didn't appear to have been an enthusiastic Nazi.

Von Braun worked on guided missiles for the U.S. Army and was later director of NASA's Marshall Space Flight Center. He became a celebrity in the 1950s and early 1960s, as one of Walt Disney's experts on the "World of Tomorrow." In 1970, he became NASA's associate administrator.

KURT BLOME
A high-ranking Nazi scientist, Blome told U.S. military interrogators in 1945 that he had been ordered 1943 to experiment with plague vaccines on concentration camp prisoners. He was tried at Nuremberg in 1947 on charges of practicing euthanasia (extermination of sick prisoners), and conducting experiments on humans. Although acquitted, his earlier admissions were well known, and it was generally accepted that he had indeed participated in the gruesome experiments.

Two months after his Nuremberg acquittal, Blome was interviewed at Camp David, Maryland, about biological warfare. In 1951, he was hired by the U.S. Army Chemical Corps to work on chemical warfare. His file neglected to mention Nuremberg.

MAJOR GENERAL WALTER SCHREIBER
According to Linda Hunt's article, the US military tribunal at Nuremberg heard evidence that "Schreiber had assigned doctors to experiment on concentration camp prisoners and had made funds available for such experimentation." The assistant prosecutor said the evidence would have convicted Schreiber if the Soviets, who held him from 1945 to 1948, had made him available for trial.

Again, Schreiber's Paperclip file made no mention of this evidence; the project found work for him at the Air Force School of Medicine at Randolph Field in Texas. When columnist Drew Pearson publicized the Nuremberg evidence in 1952, the negative publicity led the JIOA, says Hunt, to arrange "a visa and a job for Schreiber in Argentina, where his daughter was living." On May 22, 1952, he was flown to Buenos Aires.

HERMANN BECKER-FREYSING and SIEGFRIED RUFF
These two, along with Blome, were among the 23 defendants in the Nuremberg War Trials "Medical Case." Becker-Freysing was convicted and sentenced to 20 years in prison for conducting experiments on Dachau inmates, such as starving them, then force-feeding them sea water that had been chemically altered to make it drinkable. Ruff was acquitted (in a close decision) on charges that he had killed as many as 80 Dachau inmates in a low-pressure chamber designed to simulate altitudes in excess of 60,000 feet. Before their trial, Becker-Freysing and Ruff were paid by the Army Air Force to write reports about their grotesque experiments.

GENERAL REINHARD GEHLEN
It was five years after the end of WWII but one of Hitler's chief intelligence officers was still on the job. From a walled-in compound in Bavaria, General Reinhard Gehlen oversaw a vast network of intelligence agents spying on Russia. His top aides were Nazi zealots who had committed some of the most notorious crimes of the war. Gehlen and his SS united were hired, and swiftly became agents of the CIA when they revealed their massive records on the Soviet Union to the US.

Gehlen derived much of his information from his role in one of the most terrible atrocities of the war: the torture, interrogation and murder by starvation of some four million Soviet prisoners. Prisoners who refused to cooperate were often tortured or summarily executed. May were executed even after they had given information, while others were simply left to starve to death. As a result, Gehlend and members of his organization maneuvered to make sure they were captured by advancing American troops rather than Russians, who would have executed them immediatly.

Two months before Germany surrendered in 1945, the Gehlen organization made its move. "Gehlen and a small group of his most senior officers carefully microfilmed the vast holding on the USSR in the military section of the German army's general staff. They packed the film in watertight steel drums and secretly buried it in a remote mountain meadow scattered throughout the Austrian Alps.

General William Donovan and Allen Dulles of the CIA were tipped off about Gehlen's surrender and his offer of Russian intelligence in exchange for a job. The CIA was soon jockeying with military intelligence for authority over Gehlen's microfilmed records--and control of the German spymaster. Dulles arranged for a private intelligence facility in West Germany to be established, and named it the Geheln Organization. Gehlen promised not to hire any former SS, SD, or Gestapo members; he hired them anyway, and the CIA did not stop him. Two of Gehlen's early recruits were Emil Augsburg and Dr. Franz Six, who had been part of mobile killing squads, which killed Jews, intellectuals, and Soviet partisans wherever they found them. Other early recruits included Willi Krichbaum, senior Gestapo leader for southeastern Europe, and the Gestapo chiefs of Paris and Kiel, Germany.

With the encouragement of the CIA, Gehlen Org (Licio Gelli) set up "*** lines" to get Nazi war criminals out of Europe so they wouldn't be prosecuted. By setting up transit camps and issuing phony passports, the Gehlen Org helped more than 5,000 Nazis leave Europe and relocate around the world, especially in South and Central America. There, mass murderers like Klaus Barbie (the butcher of Lyons) helped governments set up death squads in Chile, Argentina, El Salvador, and elsewhere.

KLAUS BARBIE
Known as the Nazi butcher of Lyons, France during World War II, Barbie was part of the SS which was responsible for the and death of thousands of French people under the Germany occupation.

HEINRICH RUPP
Some of Rupp's best work was done for the CIA, after he was imported in Operation Paperclip. Rupp has been convicted of bank fraud. He was an operative for the CIA and is deeply involved in the Savings and Loan scandals. A federal jury has indicated they believe testimony that Rupp, the late CIA Director William Casey - then Reagan's campaign manager, and Donald Gregg, now U.S. Ambassador to South Korea, flew with George Bush to Paris in 1980, during the election in which Bush was on the ticket with Ronald Reagan. The testimony states that three meetings were held on October 19 and 20 at the Hotel Florida and Hotel Crillion. The subject? According to the court testimony, the meetings were to sabotage President Jimmy Carter's reelection campaign by delaying the release of American hostages in Iran. The hostages were released on January 20, 1981, right after Reagan and Bush were sworn into office. Iran was promised return of its frozen assets in the United States and the foundation for the Iran- Contra deal was set into motion.

LICIO GELLI
Head of a 2400 member secret Masonic Lodge, P2, a neo-fascist organization, in Italy that catered to only the elite, Gelli had high connections in the Vatican, even though he was not a Catholic. P2's membership is totally secret and not even available to its Mother Lodge in England. Gelli was responsible for providing Argentina with the Exocet missile. He was a double agent for the CIA and the KGB. He assisted many former Nazi high officials in their escape from Europe to Central America. He had close ties with the Italian Mafia. Gelli was a close associate of Benito Mussolini. He was also closely affiliated with Roberto Calvi, head of the scandal-ridden Vatican Bank. Calvi was murdered. Gelli's secret lodge consisted of extremely important people, including armed forces commanders, secret service chiefs, head of Italy's financial police, 30 generals, eight admirals, newspaper editors, television and top business executives and key bankers - including Calvi. Licio Gelli and others in P2 were behind the assasination of Pope John Paul I.

The central figure in Europe and South America that linked the CIA, Masonic Lodge, Vatican, ex-Nazis and several South American governments, the Italian government and several international banks was Licio Gelli. He, with Klaus Barbie and Heinrich Rupp, met with Ronald R. Rewald in Uruguay to arrange for the Argentine purchase of the French-made Exocet missile, used in the Falkland Island attack to kill british soldiers.

Who is Gelli and why was he so important?

To understand Gelli, one must understand the complex post war years of Europe. The biggest threat to Europe in pre-war times was Communism - it was the great fear of Communism that gave birth to the Fascists and the Nazis. Though both sides were dreaded, the Fascists represented right-wing government, while the Communist represent left-wing government. It was the right-wing that the United States and the Catholic Church desired over Communism - because Communism would destroy the capitalistic system. This is why the CIA and the Vatican had go through with Operation Paperclip. The Nazis had massive amounts of Soviet intelligence, had infiltrated Communist partisans, and were in no way going to be given up to the Soviet Union.

Gelli worked both sides. He helped to found the Red Brigade, spied on Communist partisans and worked for the Nazis at the same time, a double agent. He helped establish the *** Line, which assisted the flight of high ranking Nazi officials from Europe to South America, with passports supplied by the Vatican and with the full acknowledgment and blessing of the United States intelligence community. While on one hand, the U.S. participated in the war crime tribunals of key Nazi officials and maintained an alliance with the Communist Soviet Union, secretly, the U.S. was preparing for the cold war and needed the help of Nazis in the eventual struggle the U.S. would have with the Soviet Union. Gelli's agreement with U.S. intelligence to spy on the Communists after the war was instrumental in saving his life. He was responsible for the murder and torture of hundreds of Yugoslavian partisans.

The Vatican provided support to Nazis and Fascists because the Communists were the real threat to the Church's survival. The Italian Communists would have taxed the Church's vast holdings and the Church has had a dismal experience with Communist governments throughout the world - where religious freedom was stamped out.

Gelli was well connected with the Vatican from the days of the *** Line and he worked for American intelligence, as well. Gelli formed the P-2 Masonic Lodge-which did not follow the direction of any Grand Lodge-and it was supplied with a sum of $10 million a month by the CIA. Its membership was a Who's Who in the intelligence, military and Italian community. So prominent was Gelli's influence, that he was even a guest of honor at the 1981 inauguration of President Ronald Reagan.

Gelli used blackmail in order to gain prominent members of his P-2 lodge, its membership is estimated at 2400 members, including 300 of the most powerful men in the Western World.. He was a close friend of Pope Paul VI, Juan Peron of Argentina, Libyan Dictator Muammar el-Qaddafi, and many high officials in the Italian and American governments - he is also reported to have had some financial dealings with the George Bush for President campaign.

Gelli and his P-2 lodge had staggering connections to banking, intelligence and diplomatic passports. The CIA poured hundreds of millions of dollars into Italy in the form of secret subsidies for political parties, labor unions and communications businesses. At the same time the Agency continued its relationship with far- right and violent elements as a back-up should a coup be needed to oust a possible Communist government. This covert financing was exposed by the Prime Minister of Italy in a speech to Parliament. He indicates that more than 600 people in Italy still remain on the payroll of the CIA. Licio Gelli was an ardent Nazi and a perfect asset of the CIA. As part of Reinhard Gehlen's intelligence team, he had excellent contacts. Licio was the go between for the CIA and the Vatican through his P2 Lodge.

Project Paperclip was stopped in 1957, when West Germany protested to the U.S. that these efforts had stripped it of "scientific skills." There was no comment about supporting Nazis. Paperclip may have ended in 1957, but as you can see from Licio Gelli and his international dealings with the CIA in Italy/P2, and Heinrich Rupp with his involvement in October Surprise, the ramifications of Paperclip are world-wide. The Nazis became employed CIA agents, engaging in clandestine work with the likes of George Bush, the CIA, Henry Kissinger, and the Masonic P2 lodge. This is but one of the results of Operation Paperclip. Another umbrella project that was spawned from Paperclip was MK-ULTRA.

A secret laboratory was established and funded by CIA director, Allen Dulles in Montreal, Canada at McGill University in the Allen Memorial Institute headed by psychiatrist Dr. Ewen Cameron. For the next several years Dr. Ewen Cameron waged his private war in Canada. What is ironic about Dr. Cameron is that he served as a member of the Nuremberg tribunal who heard the cases against the Nazi doctors.

When it was at its height in drug experiments, operation MK-ULTRA was formed. This was the brainchild of Richard Helms who later came to be a CIA director. It was designed to defeat the "enemy" in its brain-washing techniques. MK-ULTRA had another arm involved in Chemical and Biological Warfare (CBW) known as MK-DELTA. The "doctors" who participated in these experiments used some of the same techniques as the Nazi "doctors". Techniques used by Dr. Cameron and previous Nazi scientists include electro shock, sleep deprivation, memory implantation, memory erasure, sensory modification, psychoactive drug experiments, and many more cruel practices.

Project Paperclip brought us MK-ULTRA. Paperclip ultimately brought in key players involved in the Assassination of Pope 1, October Surprise (sabotage of Carter's peace talks), and a great many other things still classified to this day. The results of Project Paperclip were devastating, and very far reaching. I guess that is what you would expect from collaborating with Nazis.

This research shows that the OSS/CIA that was formed in the National Security Act, the same agency that employed hundreds of Nazis, has been in alliance with the Vatican through various Agency connections such as Licio Gelli. The CIA/Vatican alliance that Assassinated Pope John Paul 1, JFK, and hundreds of dictators of 3rd world countries is the Illuminati.

The Bavarian Illuminati has been around for centuries in one way or another. It's presence in the 20th century is the direct result of the Nazis. The Nazi connections to the occult and the Bavarian Thule Society were parallel to the American members of 33rd degree Freemasonry. When the Operation Paperclip was successfully executed, the Nazi element of the Bavarian Thule society was fused with the American members of Freemasonry to create the Illuminati.

Operation Paperclip, MK-ULTRA, October Surprise, and George Bush are all facets of the Illuminati, a group whose ideals are rooted in the occult, and dedicated to world domination.

Soon after the American Revolution, John Robinson, a professor of rural philosophy at Edinburgh University in Scotland and member of a Freemason lodge, said that he was asked to join the Illuminati. After studying the group, he concluded that the purposes of the Illuminati were not compatible with his beliefs.

In 1798, he published a book called Proofs Of A Conspiracy, which states:
 
The US has the resources to wage a conflict but would it be effective?...with the US outcomes in Iraq and Afghanistan to be very poor....I mean look the conflict/insurgency is still continuing...despite all the 'state of the art' technology available to them....the results have not been impressive.

First you must understand the situation. If the Iranians attack our ships, we will retaliate no matter whether we are bogged down, overstretched and what else. We will simply retaliate and bomb them.

The effectiveness would depend on the goal of the US attack. If we look at Iraq, we got rid of Saddam, that was achieved. However, we are struggling with the insurgencies. Insurgency and an armed forces of a nation are completely different things. They are using guerilla warfare tactics, suicide bombings, roadside bombings and using civilians as shields.

In the US we call this situation that our "hands are tied". When insurgencies be it from Iraq or Afghanistan they fire at us within civilian areas. Now, picture this...they fire at us and we cannot fire back...our hands are being shackled.

If the US military and the insurgencies are teleported to a deserted island with no civilians, no place to run and no place to hide. Do you think the US military will suffer?...I can tell you in that situation the insurgencies will rip their pants faster than they can say "jihad".

The US will find it a lot diificult in engaging a country that is much larger than Iraq or Afghanistan, and in current days...it has financial/recession problems...it is quite 'literally' bogged down in not very popular wars.....

The average American people are very simple, they live in their own bubble world knowing nothing much about the outside world. They don't care if say India and Pakistan just nuked each other. They only care what happens inside their little bubble world. However, when blood is spilled on their doorsteps...ie. Iran sinks one of our ships killing all on board, you can bet your life that the American public will unite under the president for a full scale retaliation against Iran.

The size of the country does matter, but what if the US retaliation is not putting foot on the ground just bombing Iran 24/7 back to the stone age?. Does Iran have an answer for that?.

I believe that the US has a lot to offer and could be seen as a 'leader' across the world....but if it continues with its ARROGANT/BULLY global tactics.....then...time will tell.....I believe it will be humbled...sooner or later!

Probably, there are lots of things that I don't support my nation in doing, but what I think and what is happening are two different things. Bush will go down in history as the worst president ever. Hopefullly, Obama can reverse this trend.

Let me make my stand pretty clear, I don't support the Iraq war and I think it was a lie on the pretext of WMD. Also, I don't advocate a war with Iran but when both sides are not backing down, eventually one side will be forced to call the others bluff. That situation I don't want to see. But again, what I want and what is going to happen are different things.

Look at History...all great nations have come and gone....just read how they were destroyed.......primarily PRIDE and ARROGANCE!!!:smokin:

Probably, but until that day comes, if it really comes, we can be arrogant, not because we want to, but because we can.
 
Black Stone; SIR
How are you, how about your g-bomb?:rofl::rofl::rofl:
who said that," Iranians photoshopped one of their failed launches ", thats all negetive propaganda, AGAINST A NATION WHICH IS STANDING AGAINST A SUPERPOWER.
THATS IT!:partay:

Hahah good one Batmannow lol :chilli::rofl::lol:
 
Black Stone; SIR
How are you, how about your g-bomb?:rofl::rofl::rofl:
who said that," Iranians photoshopped one of their failed launches ", thats all negetive propaganda, AGAINST A NATION WHICH IS STANDING AGAINST A SUPERPOWER.
THATS IT!:partay:

Batman, here is the photoshopped Iranian missile firing

7d0b4435ed7e33ec1a18bca230a69b3d.jpg
 
Black Stone;221474]First you must understand the situation. If the Iranians attack our ships, we will retaliate no matter whether we are bogged down, overstretched and what else. We will simply retaliate and bomb them.

In irans history they have never been the agresor and have never attacked any nation on this planet.iran iraq war iranians were attacked and they defended them self.as far as bombing them no one here in there right mind would doubt that americans have the power to do so.

The effectiveness would depend on the goal of the US attack. If we look at Iraq, we got rid of Saddam, that was achieved. However, we are struggling with the insurgencies. Insurgency and an armed forces of a nation are completely different things. They are using guerilla warfare tactics, suicide bombings, roadside bombings and using civilians as shields.

you cant compare iraq to iran in any possible way saddam was a dictator and was installed on iraqies he never ever trusted his army other then the few closed family members so they were never properly armed to fight.guns were issued to the army but never given the bullets as he was affaraid they could be used against him.iran on the other hand is not the same government is elected by the people army is trained and armed with what ever they have the resources to do so.usa didnt attack iraq by her self alone half the world was involved in the attack iraqi unarmed army quit before the fight started.plus divided population didnt help saddam iran again diffrent ball game population +the armed forces will fight.
as far as gurilla war fare is concerned its easy to get in to any country for super power its not as easy to finish the job.again only people putting up ressistance are saddmas few loyals who stand to and have lost it all not the whole population.

In the US we call this situation that our "hands are tied". When insurgencies be it from Iraq or Afghanistan they fire at us within civilian areas. Now, picture this...they fire at us and we cannot fire back...our hands are being shackled.

Bombing some one from air cause the country is defence less isnt that the same has road side bombing you telling me those air attacks dont kill civilians.they have to fight with what ever is at there disposal.now imagine this if the russians have supplied the taliban ground to air missiles like the americans did can u tell me what would be the out come then its easy to judge but the history have shown how a mighty russian army couldnt stand it when other party had some thing to fight back with.

If the US military and the insurgencies are teleported to a deserted island with no civilians, no place to run and no place to hide. Do you think the US military will suffer?...I can tell you in that situation the insurgencies will rip their pants faster than they can say "jihad".

depends if they have the same fire power or not other wise yes you are right they will be dead before they say ahhhh.


The average American people are very simple, they live in their own bubble world knowing nothing much about the outside world. They don't care if say India and Pakistan just nuked each other. They only care what happens inside their little bubble world. However, when blood is spilled on their doorsteps...ie. Iran sinks one of our ships killing all on board, you can bet your life that the American public will unite under the president for a full scale retaliation against Iran
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Average american was ignorent as long as it didnt cost them any thing but thats not the case any more these wars have cost them dearly and it showed at the election when a Black man was picked to be the next president of usa.and from some states where blacks werent even allowed to use the same washroom as whites so to answer your question yes American people have spoken loud and clear.unfortunatly they spoke little to late now that they are in triliions of dollars in debt and economy tanking but but late then never.

The size of the country does matter, but what if the US retaliation is not putting foot on the ground just bombing Iran 24/7 back to the stone age?. Does Iran have an answer for that?.

well if u look at the american economy these bombings have braught them to thrid world status and tanking.once a great nation stands to go bankrupt if the continue on this path.so u see bombing some one isnt that easy unless u have the money to make those bombs.

Probably, there are lots of things that I don't support my nation in doing, but what I think and what is happening are two different things. Bush will go down in history as the worst president ever. Hopefullly, Obama can reverse this trend.

After the election there were celebration all over the world i guess whole world have there hopes set on obama including me.

Let me make my stand pretty clear, I don't support the Iraq war and I think it was a lie on the pretext of WMD. Also, I don't advocate a war with Iran but when both sides are not backing down, eventually one side will be forced to call the others bluff. That situation I don't want to see. But again, what I want and what is going to happen are different things.

you see if the americans want the iranians to give up there nukes they can start by setting up the example change your foreging policy one sided approch isnt the answer.iran is a signatory of NPT and is allowed to develope nuclear power but Americans dont like that well india isnt a signatory of NPT and is being allowed civilian nuclear tech what do u think others dont see this double standerd and u think they dont have the right to self defence when americans supply every thing to isreal on one hand and tell the others no no you cant have it.i doubt they will listen and back off they be stupid to do so.

Probably, but until that day comes, if it really comes, we can be arrogant, not because we want to, but because we can
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They way usa government is barrowing to continue on this path its going to be you and your grand kids and there kids that will be paying this off for a very very long time to come so can you afford to sit and wait.
 

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