Iran says to jointly produce defence equipment with Pakistan

[SQ8]

Sorry to barge in on your pulpit rant but how are you Not different to the mullahs by giving religious references and alluding to same tactic of divide and rule among the Muslims?

So do you suggest we refer to the two major sects, who have at least a million dead in the political war against each other over the last 1500 years by some politically correct term?
Apples and oranges?
Bata and servis?
Rahat bakery and Tehzeeb?
Al-Karam and Gul Ahmed?
Al Baik and KFC?
McDonalds and Mr Burger?
Like gorgonites and the commando elite?

 

[BHarwana]

Yupx a couple of years back they hacked and grounded a US Sentinel drone and reversed engineer them, would be good if we buy a squadron or 2

Buying is not a good option a better option is joint production. Pakistan composite material production is better Plus we have RAM tech from the downed chopper.

 

[El Sidd]

So do you suggest we refer to the two major sects, who have at least a million dead in the political war against each other over the last 1500 years by some politically correct term?
Apples and oranges?
Bata and servis?
Rahat bakery and Tehzeeb?
Al-Karam and Gul Ahmed?
Al Baik and KFC?
McDonalds and Mr Burger?
Like gorgonites and the commando elite?

Call it what it is. Human nature.

Neither is Iran the seat of shia Power and nor is Saudi Arabia seat of Sunni power.

 

[SQ8]

Call it what it is. Human nature.

Neither is Iran the seat of shia Power and nor is Saudi Arabia seat of Sunni power.

What is politics but human nature?
Shia is a political term.. Shia.. Shian-e-Ali.. nothing do with the fiqh aka rituals or differences in interpretation or prayer.
Sunni is also a political term, nothing to do with Hanafis, hanblis, shafais or the like.
Trying to disguise an actual political issue from its true identities by colluding those identities with religious interpretations and practices is just fooling ourselves. We also add to the divide by actually justifying it as a religious divide rather than a political one.
Iran is a major center of persia power, but routinely uses its influence within the entire population of Muslims who call themselves Shia to further its plain geopolitical and geoeconomic designs.
Why do a large percentage of shia in Pakistan revere Imam Khomeini is their own business but that does have their loyalties influenced. Does that make them traitors? No, as much as any of the pseodo-political religious elements under the influence of khaleejis and the Saud are.

Speaking of my own experience which I will not attempt to “prove” since I decided not to video it as it would be plain rude and indecent... and hence no need to accept it:

I recently attended a Shia funeral including the washing of the dead body.. while the body was in the house of the deceased I saw them put three stones on which was written Abu Bakr,Umar and Usman under the feet of the deceased. Am I to take this as a political or religious statement?
These practices did not just originate from Iran but also the highly divisive rule of people like Asafud daula in Lucknow. Does it create religious divide? Yes, but it was also purely political if one considers power politics based on religion. It is true between Iran and Saudi Arabia as it was between the Sunni-Shia scholars/leadership in Lucknow.

 

[El Sidd]

What is politics but human nature?
Shia is a political term.. Shia.. Shian-e-Ali.. nothing do with the fiqh aka rituals or differences in interpretation or prayer.
Sunni is also a political term, nothing to do with Hanafis, hanblis, shafais or the like.
Trying to disguise an actual political issue from its true identities by colluding those identities with religious interpretations and practices is just fooling ourselves. We also add to the divide by actually justifying it as a religious divide rather than a political one.
Iran is a major center of persia power, but routinely uses its influence within the entire population of Muslims who call themselves Shia to further its plain geopolitical and geoeconomic designs.
Why do a large percentage of shia in Pakistan revere Imam Khomeini is their own business but that does have their loyalties influenced. Does that make them traitors? No, as much as any of the pseodo-political religious elements under the influence of khaleejis and the Saud are.

Speaking of my own experience which I will not attempt to “prove” since I decided not to video it as it would be plain rude and indecent... and hence no need to accept it:

I recently attended a Shia funeral including the washing of the dead body.. while the body was in the house of the deceased I saw them put three stones on which was written Abu Bakr,Umar and Usman under the feet of the deceased. Am I to take this as a political or religious statement?
These practices did not just originate from Iran but also the highly divisive rule of people like Asafud daula in Lucknow. Does it create religious divide? Yes, but it was also purely political if one considers power politics based on religion. It is true between Iran and Saudi Arabia as it was between the Sunni-Shia scholars/leadership in Lucknow.

Why would you cite me examples of India?

It makes it a tribal fight Not a religious one even then.

 

[SQ8]

Nice analysis of whole situation. Yes USA has influence, Yes Saudis have influence, Yes China has influence, Yes Russia is gaining ground, Yes Iran has influence and Yes Turkey has influence. Pakistan is stretched in all those directions. One can consider it bad but also one can consider it good as well because it means diplomatic ties with every one.

Iran Pakistan joint military equipment development is not New this there has been talks in the past and There is no info on what they are jointly developing. My best guess is Air defence and drones.

The probability of your guess being even close to true is very low.
Both Iranian and Pakistani drones have a common source in China but as such our UAV programs have extremely divergent user requirements.

 

[BHarwana]

The probability of your guess being even close to true is very low.
Both Iranian and Pakistani drones have a common source in China but as such our UAV programs have extremely divergent user requirements.

Yes you have a valid point there. What about my guess on Anti-Air missile what do you think about that?

 

[SQ8]

Why would you cite me examples of India?

It makes it a tribal fight Not a religious one even then.

Because the political power that the Oudh dynasty held has direct impacts on the “tribal” divide that exists today in Pakistan by way of practices and indoctrinated division.

Again, a little background reading might help you rather than doing the typical Pakistani ostrich routine.

Yes you have a valid point there. What about my guess on Anti-Air missile what do you think about that?

Iranian systems are as yet unproven and also rely on supply lines that are specific to and incapable of being duplicated for export.
They are frankenstiens of cannibalized equipment put together or designs based of russian shelves.

The collaboration can happen in Iranian rebuild factories for Huey derivatives but even in that case we risk having whatever little access we have to western equipment(which we both prefer and use a lot.. for good reason) just so we can do a deal with Iran.

A deep cost benefit analysis will reveal that we are best served by keeping as cordial with Iran as possible. As @MastanKhan rightly put it, they are a pariah state in the world and rather than being the typical foolhardy nation as we are and just try to think we can continue to defy the centers of power in the world; we need to look at the next 20-25 year game and avoid any actual military relationship with Iran until Iran’s own status changes.

 

[El Sidd]

Because the political power that the Oudh dynasty held has direct impacts on the “tribal” divide that exists today in Pakistan by way of practices and indoctrinated division.

Again, a little background reading might help you rather than doing the typical Pakistani ostrich routine.

I keep the background reading up to Date but once again why indulge in this at all.

 

[Kompromat]

Fighter jets hopefully

 

[PaklovesTurkiye]

Ok Ok.
Hota kuch aur hai loig sochta kuch aur hain.

I also advise caution when dealing with Iran....They are ridiculously cunning and clever and can manipulate Pakistan into doing something which we should not do

Cheers, bro

 

[SQ8]

I keep the background reading up to Date but once again why indulge in this at all.

Because when the question of mentioning Shia-Sunni is taken as taboo, then it ignores the fundamentals of Iran-Pakistan relationship influences and why we cannot indulge them in our current geo-political and social climate beyond the token hugs.

Gone are the days of a Iran and Pakistan who would share pilot training and even equipment. Because its not just that Iran is a Pariah but that even in Pakistan a small but extremely vocal and violent anti-Shia sentiment exists capable of causing disruption and a victimized Shia population looking to further their voice. Neither side is “wronged” although it does effect the Shia in Pakistan who are threatened.. but to keep it on topic, our relationship with Iran is dependent upon both internal and extrenal pseudo-religious& geopolitical considerations which do not permit us to engage with Iran beyond the token gestures if we are to maintain our current stabilization with preexisting friends & “allies” .

 

[PaklovesTurkiye]

Just one sided overtures for now. Pakistan and Iran have been close but when both nations werent stocked with mad mullahs and as such both socities were fairly tolerant. While Iranians are still aspiring to be tolerant again, Pakistanis are going the other way full steam. Why is this relevant? Socieities end up influencing leadership and as long as mullah’s run society and Pakistan’s own state is still run in good ties with the Saudis, anything beyond normalization of the border is going to be difficult. There are enough elements in Pakistan on payroll of Khaleejis and other interests in Saudi Arabia who are willing to rouse Shia-Sunni issues when dealing with Iran, who also have their own Shia assets along with those whom India influences through Meetings in the Khaleej and UK.

That being said, Raheel sharif serves as a good conduit for routing Saudi backchannels into Iran. Due to his presence and somewhat close interactions with MBS, the Sauds understand Pakistan’s predicament with Iran and do not comment(so far) on our attempts to create a stable baseline with our neighbor.


Then we have to contend with the US since at the end they have a massive military and also sit next door with substantial ability to influence events and encourage/look the other way when India and Afghanistan try to ruin our existence. Despite the tensions on the surface there are still decent military to military ties between the US and Pakistan. The state department and other US interests are still well embedded within our political and bureaucratic structures( the US literally has moles and double agents in every sphere of Pakistani society.. a testament to the sellout nature of Pakistanis in general for the blue passport and dollars). We cannot expect influence like that to just go away and like a lifelong disease need to manage it carefully.
Saying that russia and China will compensate is a fool’s paradise. Russia is a new love affair borne out of Putin’s need to reassert Russia in the world and the Chinese only link with the establishment and with Business communities. You wont have your O&A level schools teaching that Kashmir is a lost cause because China said so but you will if Langley or the river Thames wishes so. You wont have a MMA member speak ill of Saudi but they will of Iran if their masters choose to.
Certain leadership of MQM london were able to get you an Indian visa within 24 hours.. so lets leave the discussion on why we can “break free” and become a powerful unit with Russian and Chinese assistance.

Joint manufacturing is a step too far unless it involves remanufacturing AH-1s, which could still have a ruckus at congress or within Saudi.

Iran is desperate for some tech especially their air force which is suffering, but for right now even with money on the table the current regime in Iran and the blood thirsty nature of both Arabs and neo-evangelicals in the US government towards Iran makes anything but a normal border difficult for Pakistan to manage.

To use pitiful urdu .. jiss din apni ghatiya haram khor aur neech auqat Pakistani tasleem karien aur samjhien tu unko apne ye sunhaire khwabon ki asliyat ka pata chale. Sharam se aik doosray se mun chupate phirien ge aur harmain shareef mein sar pathkhein ge ke iss qaum ye aad,samud aur loot ki najaiz roohani aulad ko Allah apne reham se maaf farma de.

Thanks for such detailed reply...

 

[SQ8]

Thanks for such detailed reply...

It was required since we cannot leave unsaids on the topic of why certain geopolitical relationships are where they are..

I maintain the same with India.. the majority 60% of India arent the two bit low life qtiyas we see on our forum.. they are good decent people who like our majority are just looking to do the best for themselves and their next generation. It goes for the US and other nations as well..
eventually we can find a compromised relationship with them as their own societies and national ideals either settle or adjust .. or we will be in conflict with them based on their people responding.

I’ll reserve the comments for Afghanis and Israelis as the majority comment does not apply to them due to either my own statistical experiences or media bias or otherwise.

 

[MastanKhan]

Hi,

Iran is always looking for a scape goat nation---to divert the attention of other nations from the luncatic state that it has created after the coming of Imam Khomeini---.

Why does pakistan need a joint venture with Iran for defence---. It does not need anything from Iran---. Technology wise---Pakistan is superior in that field---. Plus it has western and chinese options available to fulfill its needs---.

The last few times that we associated ourselves with iran---we got bit hard---.

As Iran has just recently been rejected by India ( which succumbed to the US pressure )---Iran is basically left alone to fend for itself---.

and Iran does not like that---. Iran has always diverted that wrath of the west to other nations by starting proxy wars in those regions---.

Now those war options have almost ended---Iran is now looking towards Pakistan to make it the scapegoat and target of destruction of the west---.

I hope that sane minds prevail in Pakistan---and Iran is kept a couple of arms lengths away---.