Iran-Pakistan fallout over Bahrain

[AgNoStiC MuSliM]

I think in many cases people use the term to indicate which interpretation of Islam they follow.

The problem, IMO, is not with people identifying themselves as Shia, Sunni, Wahabi or whatever, but with certain Muslims not accepting the fact that there are differences in interpretation and that such differences are no big deal.

 

[AgNoStiC MuSliM]

I am well aware. However, i wanted to gain a deeper understanding of how basic islamic ideals like "muslim ummah" comes into play in such scenarios. Many posters in this forum have waxed eloquently about this concept. I , being an outsider, am merely curious.

You should probably direct your question at those members specifically then.

 

[BATMAN]

I'm a Pakistani Muslim my friend, a very patriotic Pakistani. I don't call use the label 'Shia' for myself, but yes I am. I'm a proud Pakistani Muslim, that's my identity. It was Batman that made this about Shias & Sunnis, who started talking about how Shiism is a distortion of Islam. Read my posts about Pakistan.

Young man..... learn civilization, what did i mention about Shia which is not acceptable for you?
There are more threads in this forum alleging Muslims in general but never your blood boiled like this?
Please... point out now what is wrong so I can correct it.
I did have put some good words for Hazrat Ali .... is it wrong according to your faith?

BTW... my name is Ali

 

[AgNoStiC MuSliM]

Errr...This is a wrong analogy.

Iran is not actively helping India with mercenaries in putting down the unruly mobs in Kashmir whereas Pakistan is just doing that in Bahrain.

India-Iran ties are just pure oil business and nothing else.

That business supports the Indian economy in one way or the other, so in one way or the other the Iranians are contributing to the India's resources, a part of which are utilized to occupy and oppress the people of J&K.

Actively or inactively - assistance is assistance.

 

[chops3d]

BS - please leave your sectarian hatred and derogatory comments about other sects out of this forum or you will be banned without warning.

Many senior members of this forum are Shia, and I myself have one Shia and one Sunni parent.
.

bs???,and no i dont have sactarian hatred, shias here come to defend the iran illegally and thats my concern..

 

[Irfan Baloch]

Ok guys let me take the opportunity out of this obvious troll.

'sunnis' is foreign lable it has no relationship with non Shia belief.
'Shia' was adopted aftwer the shahadat of Hazrat Ali's family (not after the shahadat of hazrat Ali), it is an arabic word and meaning 'party'/'Shia of Ali' now conveniently called only shia.

Where as there is no reason or event in history for adopting 'sunni' lable and does not single out as party to any Khaliph.

Calling non Shia as Sunnis is a big conspiracy, which imply sunnis do not subscribe to hazrat Ali.

Non Shia..... as they love, respect and value hazrat Ali for all his life time achievements, shall not accept this lable of Sunni and shall be called upon as MUSLIMS only.
Apply your logic.....what is sunni muslim, for heavn's sake?
Did prophet (s.a.w) mentioned any such thing? NO.

Where as problem with Iran is it subscribe to terrorism in foreign states with association of RAW.

very well said,
let this be a rallying cry for all Muslims, no matter what faith group.

by the way stirring up the Shia/ Sunni issue in Bahrain is only out of convenience. It just happens that Bahamian royal family is imported from Sudia by the British when they broke the Ottoman empire. The current unrest was never against the monarchy itself but was for greater freedom and participation in the state of the affairs. The way it has been handled (+ influence of Iran or other Western nations) the unrest has changed into an uprising and might lead to armed revolt if the monarchy is not careful while discharging its heavy calibre weapons on the people.

Unfortunately the mangled bodies of Bahrainians include both sunni and shias who just happened to be in the wrong place at the wrong time. They even include uniformed hospital nurses who were sniped by high calibre sniper rifles when forces started firing to disperse the crowds.

Far from staying Neutral, Pakistan should play an active diplomatic part and should call the OIC conference of the heads of states (does anyone remember that name at all?) so that this Arabian uprising can be better handled and the Arab governments can reach a compromise with the demands of the people. In these current times it is very hard to continue to use the uncompromising and rigid method of brutal suppression because it might be quashed for now but it will continue to come back.

In the end, I think it will be unfair if I don’t condemn the brutality of the Bahrain regime against its people but then again that’s the hallmark of the monarchies there is just no room for argument, dissent or sharing. Although I can understand Iran’s worry about the brutal suppression of the Shia’s in Bahrain but it shouldn’t be only on the basis of faith but on the basis of humanity but first it needs to look at its own record. Iranian regime has lost many things what the revolution was about and has slowly become what it criticised the Shah’s monarchy. Its own suppression of the green revolution and the reformists is not very exemplary either.

Coming back to Pakistan once again, as far as the legality is concerned Pakistani individuals or the government and the contractor agencies are not doing anything illegal. Their contracts are with the internationally recognised governments that represent their countries in the united nations too. From the moral stand point Pakistan can plead the Muslim nations in general and Arab nations in particular to resolve these issues without further violence but since it doesn’t seem to work as the word “Muslim Ummah” has been discarded from the dictionary so Pakistan should carefully work to serve its interests and tell Iran to put up or shut up.

 

[AgNoStiC MuSliM]

The Sunnis are worried about Shias taking over Bahrain.

And the Sunnis in Sistan-Baluchistan are already worried and fighting against the Iranian/Shia takeover of their people and territory.

The Iranians stand to lose a lot more if they choose to exacerbate and exploit this issue in any significant way. They are heavily outnumbered and out-resourced.

 

[AgNoStiC MuSliM]

bs???,and no i dont have sactarian hatred, shias here come to defend the iran illegally and thats my concern..

If you do not have sectarian hatred then do not pass derogatory comments about other sects such as 'Shia make haram things halal'.

The Shia have their interpretation of Islam and the Sunni and other sects have their own. Leave it to Allah to decide on the day of judgement who was right and who was wrong.

 

[53fd]

Young man..... learn civilization, what did i mention about Shia which is not acceptable for you?
There are more threads in this forum alleging Muslims in general but never your blood boiled like this?
Please... point out now what is wrong so I can correct it.
I did have put some good words for Hazrat Ali .... is it wrong according to your faith?

BTW... my name is Ali

You made this a thread about Shia-Sunni ideology, whereby you implied that Shiism is a distortion of Islam. That is where my problem lies. You also slandered against Shiism by fabricating many lies about it that I would have loved to answer here, but I can't; because this thread isn't about that, it's about Pakistan, Bahrain & Iran. I'm not the one who started talking about Hazrat Ali or the Sahabas, or anyone else here on this thread, you did. You talked about Shia ideology like an expert in an attempt to malign it, & you completely diverted the issue & derailed the topic of this thread by doing so.

 

[BATMAN]

What is racist about Aryan? The Iranians did not choose the name after Hitler made the term so notorious. The etymology of the name Iran goes back thousands of years, and in so much as it refers to the 'Aryans' it refers to a people, and I see no reason why the people of a nation should not name it after themselves, or whatever they feel like.

BS - please leave your sectarian hatred and derogatory comments about other sects out of this forum or you will be banned without warning.

Many senior members of this forum are Shia, and I myself have one Shia and one Sunni parent.

No one has any right to impose their interpretation of Islam on anyone else and declare the 'other' to be 'un-Islamic'.

The criticism of Iran from most members here is over Iran's policies, and that is where it should remain.

No one has done any interpretation of any Islam.

Some context to explain the origin of 'sunni' 'shia' sects.
Let's be honest their are more rude posts against Islam or other funny sects. and allegations against Islam on this forum but that is all fine.
I have more know how of Iran's role in Pakistan than Shia themself.
Why does Pakistani Shia are not independent of Iran?

 

[chops3d]

If you do not have sectarian hatred then do not pass derogatory comments about other sects such as 'Shia make haram things halal'.

The Shia have their interpretation of Islam and the Sunni and other sects have their own. Leave it to Allah to decide on the day of judgement who was right and who was wrong.

ary bhai i was pointing to fact shias cry every yr for imam hussain assassination, is it not haram to cry after 3 days or make matam?? im not even going to discuss the other issues, its not the place, but a starter for you.. after all you are agnostic, when did u start caring abt these matters anyway that what shia do and what not, in this forum this bilal guy has called derogatory those salafis, deobandis etc etc, is it not derogatory to offend people related to these sects, so much of your neutrality, plzz dont bring your parents into discussions, in iranian forum, the 'wahabi' sect is synonym to 'terrorist' word

 

[BATMAN]

You made this a thread about Shia-Sunni ideology, whereby you implied that Shiism is a distortion of Islam. That is where my problem lies. You also slandered against Shiism by fabricating many lies about it that I would have loved to answer here, but I can't; because this thread isn't about that, it's about Pakistan, Bahrain & Iran. I'm not the one who started talking about Hazrat Ali or the Sahabas, or anyone else here on this thread, you did. You talked about Shia ideology like an expert in an attempt to malign it, & you completely diverted the issue & derailed the topic of this thread by doing so.

No my friend i never said distortion or any such non sense.. infact it is you who is distorting.
It is you who derailed it.... go back and have a review.
I did not mention any thing about Shia and why you consider it crime for non Shia to mention Hazrat Ali?
I'm no expert and neither i want to be any expert..... i just want to keep my religion simple as MUSLIM without being labelled as sunni.

 

[AgNoStiC MuSliM]

No one has done any interpretation of any Islam.

Yes they do - there are differences over interpretations of the Quran and various other disputes between the Shia and Sunni schools of thought that are common knowledge. But the problem is that people like Chops take the disputes to an extreme position and start calling the other sect 'un-Islamic' for having a different viewpoint on some interpretation of Islam. If people just agree to disagree and ignore the differences then you would have no tension.

Why does Pakistani Shia are not independent of Iran?

Who says Pakistani Shia are not independent of Iran?

 

[AgNoStiC MuSliM]

ary bhai i was pointing to fact shias cry every yr for imam hussain assassination, is it not haram to cry after 3 days or make matam?? im not even going to discuss the other issues, its not the place, but a starter for you..

That is precisely my point.

What business of yours is it whether the Shia cry every year over Imam Hussain's assassination? Why do you have a problem with it? Are they forcing you to cry as well? If the Shia want to practice Muharram in a particular way then that is their right.

As I said, Allah will be the judge at the end of days. Why are you crying and whining about what the Shia do - mind your own business.

 

[53fd]

And the Sunnis in Sistan-Baluchistan are already worried and fighting against the Iranian/Shia takeover of their people and territory.

The Iranians stand to lose a lot more if they choose to exacerbate and exploit this issue in any significant way. They are heavily outnumbered and out-resourced.

You're right about this. I don't have any loyalties with Iran, I only have them with Pakistan. But you have to admit one thing, that Jundullah that has been responsible for the attacks in Sistan-Balochistan, does it through Pakistan's Balochistan province. Of course, the Pakistani government is not responsible for this in any way, but just the fact that the attacks are coming out from Pakistan, with the help of the CIA, is a problem of Pakistan. We need to sort it out, not just for Iran but for Pakistan. We really need to sort out this anarchy in Balochistan that results in pipelines being blown up, & the halting of development in the province. Conversely, I am willing to accept Iran's alleged proof inside Pakistan's tribal agencies, if someone can provide me such proofs. I find it very incredulous that Iran would be able to assist extremist Deobandi/Salafi groups that kill Shias in the Kurram & Orakzai agencies.