Iran Kowsar Jet Surprise (production line)

[Globalwarrior]

Why Iran don’t modify the external shape?

 

[Ray_Atek]

Mass production of kowsar needed solution of many problems in Iran doctorine such as feeling air power as important need firstly, developing Avionics and engine, believing good funding to air force and paying correctly, collecting experts and so on.

This is a first step and economic one ,startup of a way, starting to think about more better idea such this model and going on.

Firstly with a j79 this idea can be a real output, more payload and hardpoints, bigger radar, more power and more range .

Not need to compare it`s performance with F-16 just think to Iran needs and what can be a better action in this situation which we are.

 

[TheImmortal]

Iran doesn't produce a processor worth using in it's military equipment! And so what if a camera or a processor is imported???? Just because Iran need's a few thousand cameras or processor for it's military on a yearly bases doesn't mean Iran has to start producing camera's and even if we do it doesn't mean the tech will be sufficient for military use compared to imported Cam's from countries that have been in the business of building cam's and processor for nearly half a century! And until our own tech gets to a point where using an Iranian tech wouldn't make a difference then the MOST logical thing to do is to use an imported one!



More like foreign pressure and lack of priority and funding for it for it requires a lot of money to get it going.....
In terms of technology If you can produce Aluminum and have the technology to build centrifuges for Uranium enrichment then technologically you would have NO problem producing Ti and Fact is Iran has produced Ti on a small scale for well over a decade now but to be able to produce fighters it needs to be produced at an industrial scale and you need massive Ti alloy composite block even for a proper R&D program....

People don't realize that when your sanctioned and something as simple as Ti alloy has to be smuggled into Iran how severely that effects a countries fighter program and the ability to build better engines and airframes
even for a proper R&D program that goes beyond simple design....

For Iran without being able to produce Ti alloy composites on an industrial scale you can not really move towards producing a capable Airframe or engine and Ti production is one of the most vital infrastructures that would be needed to have a capable fighter program. And that's something most countries can simply import for R&D while we have to produce our own which take time and money and lots of it!

Iran has 3.6 Billion tons in Titanium reserves alone in Sistan-Bal province.

https://financialtribune.com/articl...31528/southeast-iran-s-huge-titanium-reserves

Like I told you before, IRGC could build its own Titanium plants (if it hasn’t already).

Iran has access to the raw materials, it just needs the investment which is substantial (billions).

It’s no secret that military sector is typically ahead of public sector in technology.

Wether Iran’s military has already set up titanium production facilities in anyone of its many military research bases is unknown.

 

[drmeson]

Why Iran don’t modify the external shape?

They did experimented with that long time ago. Notice the shape of air-intakes to vary the shock configuration, the larger radome to house a larger radar perhaps, twin vertical stabilizers for improvement in rolling, yawing and pitching (??), overall size of aircraft is bit larger. This is Saegheh 3-7366 which was 55 % domestically made. Kowsar is 100 % local built with local avionics (some would say of chinese and European origin but being built locally).

......................

people on other forum are saying that Radar is Iranian built Look Down Shoot Down Pulse Doppler FCR and could be mixture of Grifo-L and KLJ-6F/KLJ-7 (looks similar) ... 80-100 km range for 5 m^2 RCS target which means BVR engagement is enabled.

I am certain next generation of Kowsar ... Kowsar-II will carry AESA may be KLJ-7A along with IRST for passive attack. This is a formidable platform even though IRIAF needs local MRCA project the size of Su-30SM or F-14AM. Kowsar (future versions) like CAS and point defending platforms in high numbers (20 squadrons) can cause lots of problems for intruders as well. Them if guided by AEW & C. May be they need to reverse engineer Digital and Jamming resistant version of AWG-9 (already on F-14AM) and put it on low RCS Simorgh or Saegheh UCAV's so that they keep providing data to Kowsars who are armed with ARH BVR and HOBS WVR. That is the future which can happen.

I do hope though that somehow 10-12 squadrons of Su-30 SM, S-35S land in Iran.

 

[Sineva]

I have serious doubt over Iran's tech regarding electronics and chip making, what exactly they are doing is buying commercial civilian electronic products and use them in different projects....

Iranian crashed drone shows it was build using nikkon camera....

LOL!!
Why on earth would iran use imported civilian nikon cameras on its drones when it has been producing its own stabilized flir systems since around 2010,not to mention that there are numerous pictures of iranian drones fitted with flirs,not to mention that iran has offered these flir systems for sale commercially.
If I was you my friend I wouldnt put much stock in the idiotic claims of notorious zionist hasbara trolls like the poster on this forum who goes by the name 500,I`m assuming thats where you originally got this idiotic "information" from as he was making this ridiculous claim in a previous thread based on a picture of a tiny crashed drone that he was trying to claim was an iranian MALE class drone the shahed 129,even tho it was obvious to a blind man that not only were the two drones quite different in appearance but the shahed 129 was several times larger as well.
Heres his claim about the nikon:
https://defence.pk/pdf/threads/iran-is-top-drone-power-in-the-me.583391/page-8#post-10893944
And heres by rebuttal of it
https://defence.pk/pdf/threads/iran-is-top-drone-power-in-the-me.583391/page-10#post-10895591

Heres a little rule I find very useful when dealing with zionists:Take every statement a zionist makes not just with a grain of salt,nor even a tablespoons worth,nor even a truckloads full,but with an entire salt mines worth of the stuff......and even then it still pays to be extremely dubious.
...

 

[sanel1412]

Well I remember I red somewhere about TAC Air plans to upgrade some number of F-5 and I find article about it(even not same I red but it is about same thing).

As we have mentioned in the past, the F-5 may be a dated airframe, but it is a highly reliable and efficient one. With new sensor options that are available off the shelf, the type can offer 4th generation fighter-like capabilities at a fraction of the cost. TacAir writes in their platform description the following about their unique F-5s:

"While the baseline F-5 flown by USN/USMC is widely considered a 3en Generation aircraft, TacAir’s existing and planned upgrades economically evolve this aircraft into an advanced tactical aircraft with sensor/system capabilities on par with current DoD 4th Generation fighter aircraft. TacAir F-5s are upgraded with HUD/HOTAS [Heads Up Display/Hands On Throttle And Stick], open architecture mission computers and tailored Operational Flight Programs that enable integration of advanced radar systems, IRST [Infrared Search and Track], EA [Electronic Attack], RWR [Radar Warning Receiver], datalinks, and HOBS [High Off Boresight] simulated weapons employment."

The main upgrade that would make these aircraft able to perform 4th generation fighter threat replication would be the inclusion of a modern radar system. TacAir's website associates their aircraft with both the Grifo-200 and APG-66 pulse doppler radars, although it is unclear if these sets have actually replaced the AN/APG-153/159 radars originally installed in most F-5s or if new radar systems like the ones mentioned will be integrated into their F-5 fleet if the company wins a major adversary support contract.

You can read full article here

 

[haman10]

Generally airframes of 3rd generation aircraft can be slightly modified and can be used in 4th generation ... The key changes in 4th generation was the sub-systems of the aircrafts and engine controls including but not limited to avionics, FBW, MAWs, integration with assets ...

So if Iranian actually make some achievements in these areas than it is good, however, I personally think it is not the case, Iran is not capable of designing its own FBW as it lacks electronics systems... furthermore, avionics must also be at some basic level prone to jamming ...

However, the direction is right ... Hope they succeed but do not use it against muslims in general and arabs in particular ...

Thanks for your input muslim brother. however, it's noteworthy to mention that if you don't believe Iran has the capability to build such an Aircraft and this is a hoax, you must also rightfully believe that Jf-17 project is entirely Chinese as Iran is much more advanced than Pakistan in all matters related to science and technology. Iran also has a much more potent industrial capability.

This is bothering for me as i believe we as muslims are much more capable than what we credit our countries and we can achieve much more.

Simply, i believe you're wrong and Pakistan had a very robust participation in Jf-17 .good luck

 

[The Accountant]

Thanks for your input muslim brother. however, it's noteworthy to mention that if you don't believe Iran has the capability to build such an Aircraft and this is a hoax, you must also rightfully believe that Jf-17 project is entirely Chinese as Iran is much more advanced than Pakistan in all matters related to science and technology. Iran also has a much more potent industrial capability.

This is bothering for me as i believe we as muslims are much more capable than what we credit our countries and we can achieve much more.

Simply, i believe you're wrong and Pakistan had a very robust participation in Jf-17 .good luck

Brother jf17 is technically designed by chinese as per requirements of PAF ... although avionic system was designed PAC ... i believe that we have lot of capability but currently it is being utilized mainly in killing our own brothers and sisters ...

Regarding capabilities of iran you have achieved alot in terms of metallergy but in terms of electronics iran do not have noteable achievement therefore i am doubtful that iran have achieved that capability however i do pray that you and all other muslims do achieve these technologies to fight enemies of islam ...

I am not enemy of iran but i also want to be realistic ... best of luck brother ...

May Allah give success to all muslims but also give us hidaya to stop killing otgers specially to iranian and saudi goverments ...

 

[Ray_Atek]

Su-22 is a good planform for modifying in such a way that jf-17 get from mig-21.
The wings and airintake can changed as in Jf-17.

 

[VEVAK]

Why Iran don’t modify the external shape?

That's simple, Iran's been producing parts for the Air Frame and has a good stock of it so all that will go to waist if you change the Airframe that will require you to change the Landing Gear and Hydraulics for any notable changes.

And all to achieve what exactly? The F-5 Airframe is an extremely well designed frame in terms of aerodynamics and maneuverability without TVC while flying with an extremely low thrust engine at remarkable speeds compared to it's thrust.

And that's why on the F-20 Americans didn't make any major changes to it's design to upset that balance but the F-20 mainly lost to the F-16 because of it's looks with it's futuristic cockpit and canopy compare to an F-20 that looked like an F-5 and although it carried less weapons than the F-16 because they kept that design. But the main reason it lost was due to it's looks.

By comparison an F/A-18 requires over 3 times as much thrust to achieve Mach 1.8 at max trust of 34,000 lbf as appose to an F-5E with only 10,000lbf of max thrust to achieve Mach 1.6
BUT when it came down to cruise speed
F/A-18 max dry thrust is 22,000 lbf yet it's max cruise speed is Mach 0.89
Where as an F-5 requires only 7,000 lbf max dry thrust to achieve it's max cruise speed of Mach 0.95 (Some F-5's go even higher) which made the F-5E well over 100km faster at cruse speed.

And that's how well designed the Airframe is and that's why it's still in use world wide. So there is no practical reason to change it's design specially with such weak engines

But I agree small minor changes would have been nice but still with small minor changes the west and it's critics would have claimed it's just an F-5 regardless

Also for now the plan is to only produce ~50 of them if Iran plans on changing it's design after who knows....

 

[The Accountant]

Su-22 is a good planform for modifying in such a way that jf-17 get from mig-21.
The wings and airintake can changed as in Jf-17.

View attachment 516061

Jf17 gets nothing from f7 ... the airframe is totally different ... jf17 gets inspiration from f16 and f18 ...

 

[Bahram Esfandiari]

That clown Babak Taghvaee has once again completely discredited himself as an "expert" in Iranian military affairs. When the Kowsar was first unveiled in August he tweeted that the real aircraft that was supposed to have been unveiled was the Kosar 88 but that plain was not ready in time so the IRIAF decided to save face by installing its new glass cockpit on to a F-5F and passing it off as a new 100% Iranian jet fighter. He has so much egg on his face now that to this date he still has not tweeted anything about the Kowsar production line. Some expert!!! Speaking of "experts" where is that little boy and his watermelon to tell as that this whole Kowsar thing is all "Mullah" trickery?

 

[drmeson]

That clown Babak Taghvaee has once again completely discredited himself as an "expert" in Iranian military affairs. When the Kowsar was first unveiled in August he tweeted that the real aircraft that was supposed to have been unveiled was the Kosar 88 but that plain was not ready in time so the IRIAF decided to save face by installing its new glass cockpit on to a F-5F and passing it off as a new 100% Iranian jet fighter. He has so much egg on his face now that to this date he still has not tweeted anything about the Kowsar production line. Some expert!!! Speaking of "experts" where is that little boy and his watermelon to tell as that this whole Kowsar thing is all "Mullah" trickery?

BT used to be a normal commentator with inside knowledge on some projects but now he has become a open Zionist supporter. He openly appreciates Israeli military operations on his twitter account. Just because he has an ax to grind with few people inside Iran, he has decided to take on whole iranian nation. An overall stupid man.

 

[Hack-Hook]

Jf17 gets nothing from f7 ... the airframe is totally different ... jf17 gets inspiration from f16 and f18 ...

Doubt it has anything to do with f18 .

By comparison an F/A-18 requires over 3 times as much thrust to achieve Mach 1.8 at max trust of 34,000 lbf as appose to an F-5E with only 10,000lbf of max thrust to achieve Mach 1.6
BUT when it came down to cruise speed
F/A-18 max dry thrust is 22,000 lbf yet it's max cruise speed is Mach 0.89
Where as an F-5 requires only 7,000 lbf max dry thrust to achieve it's max cruise speed of Mach 0.95 (Some F-5's go even higher) which made the F-5E well over 100km faster at cruse speed.

Its not like f18 need that much power to reach the speed and f5 don't need it . the problem is that the speed and increase in power don't have linear relation and also the external payload is different And also don't forget f18 is more than twice heavier and can carry a lot more.

 

[Sina-1]

That clown Babak Taghvaee has once again completely discredited himself as an "expert" in Iranian military affairs. When the Kowsar was first unveiled in August he tweeted that the real aircraft that was supposed to have been unveiled was the Kosar 88 but that plain was not ready in time so the IRIAF decided to save face by installing its new glass cockpit on to a F-5F and passing it off as a new 100% Iranian jet fighter. He has so much egg on his face now that to this date he still has not tweeted anything about the Kowsar production line. Some expert!!! Speaking of "experts" where is that little boy and his watermelon to tell as that this whole Kowsar thing is all "Mullah" trickery?

If trump can get away with bs, then surely goh Babak can as well. He’ll be back for more bs, just wait and see.