Iran and Saudi Arabia reportedly agree to resume diplomatic ties and re-open embassies within two months

[tower9]

For China this is mostly about ensuring energy supplies and preventing an potential (albeit always unlikely Arab-Iran war) as that would be catastrophical for China economically and in terms of steady and stabile energy supplies.

That and KSA/Arabs and China being giant trade partners, I think the combined Sino-Arab annual trade last year amounted to almost 250 billion USD.

Chinese Daily claimed 239 billion USD (annual trade) in 2021 (Covid era also).

September 2022

China-Arab ties ever-prosperous

While China and Arab countries were economically connected by the Silk Road over a thousand years ago, more recently, the rollout of the landmark Belt and Road Initiative over the past nine years in the region has succeeded in revitalizing the ancient trade route.

global.chinadaily.com.cn

I think that in order for China to enforce the fullfilments of such a deal, China would need to have a direct presence in the region. This is not the case so far so there is no direct arbitrator from the Chinese part.

From what I know, China is only present in Djibouti next to the Arabs there and French.

Why China and Saudi Arabia Are Building Bases in Djibouti

Why China and Saudi Arabia Are Building Bases in Djibouti

www.huffpost.com

No it’s much deeper than about energy though that is a crucial aspect.

The Abraham accords will become useless as a consequence of this development. Ankara-Damascus normalization through Russia is also on the way.

Finally, Israel is being cornered. And that's the only thing that i care about. Jewish thugs are losing leverages one after an other.

So the biggest loser would be the global Zionism no matter where they rule. USA or Israel or Britain etc.

What saddens me is, without foriegn interference, we can't settle the differences.


Arab kingdoms are nuts. I hate them personally, but my comments have nothing to do with people to people relationship.

Agreed. I’m very happy about israel being cornered.

 

[casual]

Do I look like a Ba'athi supporter? I have been always critical and consistent in my opposition to this weird mixture of communism, fascism, socialism, Arab nationalism etc. Whether it be Saddam Hussein or Bashar al-Assad (Al-Assad regime).

I prefer the ideology of Iran today much more. So no need to tell more.

This is why I don't understand the blind support for Al-Assad and his Ba'ath regime by Iran. If Iran and other regional regimes were not afraid of real representative support (system), I don't believe that there would be any hostility in the region.

Why are KSA and Iran even fighting? There have been zero wars between them for centuries.

Problem in the Muslim world is tribalism and blind regime support, not enough critical thinking. It requires to be brave to go against the majority.

Look at the money, blood, time etc. that regimes of Iran and KSA have wasted for so long.

My last post about this topic, I wish KSA and Iran the best, I am waiting for the praise until I see concrete changes on the ground. Not empty talk.


How many times must it be mentioned by me that I am looking at this deal from the perspective of an observer of history? I have no foot in whatever the Iranian Mullah's and House of Saud decide or do in this regard. I am not a spokesman of anyone or anything. I am giving my opinion from the perspective of KSA and Arab based on my time in KSA and based on my knowledge of the region's history in this context since 1979.

I wrote from the beginning in this thread that there is no reason why Arabs and Iranians could not be close allies and good neighbors. Maybe you missed this?

We are in 2023 and people still cannot differentiate between criticism of regimes in power and entire countries and peoples. It is actually amazing.

Ok

 

[Corruptistan]

No it’s much deeper than about energy though that is a crucial aspect.

Yes, besides trying to somehow remove Arabs/Iranians from the Western sphere. Which will actually not happen because the same Arabs and Iranians have for millennia had trade ties with neighboring Europe and the combined West is still a much larger economy than all of China. Most educated Arabs and Iranians who go abroad, decide/prefer to go to the West (Europe and USA), not China. The cultural clout of China in West Asia is almost non-existent compared to the West.

Anyway they won't do something that China themselves are unwilling to do.

I am afraid that the US, as long as Israel exists, is not going anywhere in the region too whether Arabs or Iranians like it or want it.

Unless you are referring to something else here.

 

[Jango]

In the context of the Arab world, West Asia and immediate areas, it is significant.

However not sure what role it plays for the majority Muslims in Pakistan, Afghanistan, India, Bangladesh, Indonesia, Malaysia or Muslim Sub-Saharan Africa. All those regions have far more Muslims (numbers wise) than West Asia alone.

Those are not real conflict regions in the Muslim world are they? Neither are they the countries which are in the 24/7 news cycle, neither are they the countries which are the target of increased security measures.

Pakistan has been, and somewhat still is the proxy warground of this Sunni Shia war since decades, SSP, LeJ, the TLP origins, all can be traced to this conflict. Then you have the flip side with the Shia organizations in Pakistan.

Also my comment was a reaction to many users here blindly thinking that somehow things will change dramatically for the better overnight. I personally don't think 1) this is even realistic even if both parties want that to occur genuinely, 2) it remains to be seen what concrete steps will be taken.

My main point here, in other words is, that yes, potential KSA-Iran friendship (or at least not hatred/hostility) is an important step but it is not the main reason why the Muslim world is as it is. It requires a much longer discussion and I could easily here shortly mention economics, education, representative rule (huge problem in Pakistan too), corruption etc.

I agree with this. Would this thawing in relations make all our troubles go away? No. But is this a significant step towards peace, yes. When you don't have another country trying to destabilize you and make you their puppet, then you can focus on educations and other matters.

West again, I agree, they have not always had the best involvement in the region, far from it (we all saw what happened with IK last year), but why not have cordial ties with the West as Muslims as well?

Are Christians (West by large) not also people of the book and those we have most in common with across the world along with the Jews? At least from a religious perspective as Muslims.

I feel far more affinity to your average Christian in say Spain than I do to your average Chinese, no matter China being a much more important ally for Pakistan and the Muslim world than say Spain, Greece or whatever.

Also I am sorry, most Saudi Arabians are completely ignorant about Iranians and vice versa, this won't change just because the regimes in power shake hands. Real change happens through interaction, tourism, business, people to people relations. Not through regimes that are not democratic in nature. No, I am not a blind believer in Western democracy but I am just stating the obvious, where Iranians and Saudi Arabians even asked to be enemies/ each other in the first place or did their regimes decide this for them? We all know the answer.

No one is advocating cutting ties off with the West or making them a boogeyman. Can't believe I am saying this, but as IK said, why can't we have good relations with both the West and China and Russia? Why do we have to be in a certain bloc? Which brings me to my original point, the US-Soviet Cold War absolutely ruined things for countries like us. Sure, we were at fault for most things too, but it did have an effect.

As for the people to people exchange, it is still happening very much so. Just go to Dubai, Abu Dhabi, Oman, Bahrain etc, full of Iranians who contribute very much to the local economy and demographic.

 

[HGV]

We cannot do anything if someone responds to your posts or likes it with an emoji, but if there are cases of personal insults towards you, please DM me the links to those posts. Apologies, I cannot quite go through the whole thread right now.

That user has spammed this thread (out of 156 posts, probably at least 50 are from him) with anti-Iranian xenophobic racist insults and lies, for example:

"most Iranians hate Arabs, hate Islam"
"Iranians have an national obsession, inferiority complexes and hatred for Arabs"
"Most Iranians are only Muslim by name"
"most of them (young generations) have a deep hatred for Islam"
"Arab-obsessed Mullah's"
"small and poor insignificant country/neighbor"

 

[Corruptistan]

Those are not real conflict regions in the Muslim world are they? Neither are they the countries which are in the 24/7 news cycle, neither are they the countries which are the target of increased security measures.

Pakistan has been, and somewhat still is the proxy warground of this Sunni Shia war since decades, SSP, LeJ, the TLP origins, all can be traced to this conflict. Then you have the flip side with the Shia organizations in Pakistan.



I agree with this. Would this thawing in relations make all our troubles go away? No. But is this a significant step towards peace, yes. When you don't have another country trying to destabilize you and make you their puppet, then you can focus on educations and other matters.



No one is advocating cutting ties off with the West or making them a boogeyman. Can't believe I am saying this, but as IK said, why can't we have good relations with both the West and China and Russia? Why do we have to be in a certain bloc? Which brings me to my original point, the US-Soviet Cold War absolutely ruined things for countries like us. Sure, we were at fault for most things too, but it did have an effect.

As for the people to people exchange, it is still happening very much so. Just go to Dubai, Abu Dhabi, Oman, Bahrain etc, full of Iranians who contribute very much to the local economy and demographic.

I am trying to be as honest as I can based on what I know about the topics at hand. I can be wrong or right as anyone else.

My impression is that KSA-Iran rapprochement has very little actual difference for how nations like Indonesia (most populous Muslim nation on the planet), Bangladesh, Muslims of India, Pakistan, Afghanistan (Taliban), Sub-Saharan African Muslims in places like Northern Nigeria, Swahili coastline etc.

Other than sectarian differences which already existed before modern-day Iran and KSA emerged and which are mostly about power struggles and local circumstances much more than just religious differences.

But we are falsely attributing internal sectarian and ethnic problems within Pakistan to outside forces, while they might have ignited the already existing fire, they did not create it. I don't believe so at least. Nor do I feel that there is any genuine Sunni-Shia hostility in Pakistan. I don't see it among Pakistanis.

As for the West, my philosophy (I have been open about it which is why I am accused of being an American, Jew, Israeli, Westerner, German, Christian and whatever nonsense) is for Pakistan and the Muslim world to have cordial ties to every power and try to gain positives from everyone. Nothing more and nothing less. I don't look at a complex world by putting everything in a few simplistic boxes. Such as West evil, China an innocent paradise etc. or whatever.

I am familiar with Iranian communities in the GCC, met many throughout the years, and the Iranian Arab community in the GCC and Iran and elsewhere. I have always said that there is no reason for Arabs and Iranians to be hostile to each other (people to people relations) and despite both of them maybe not admitting it in public, they are closer to each other on most fronts than the opposite.

That user has spammed this thread (out of 156 posts, probably at least 50 are from him) with anti-Iranian xenophobic racist insults and lies, for example:

"most Iranians hate Arabs, hate Islam"
"Iranians have an national obsession, inferiority complexes and hatred for Arabs"
"Most Iranians are only Muslim by name"
"most of them (young generations) have a deep hatred for Islam"
"Arab-obsessed Mullah's"
"small and poor insignificant country/neighbor"

Nonsense. Comments taken out of context and none of those are against the rules. I am merely saying what I have experienced online and from communicating with Iranians in the West first and. Most were Atheists, anti-Iran regime and anti-Islam and by default anti-:Arab by large because they see Islam as an "Arab invention" and as something that was forced upon Iran by the Arab Muslim invaders. It is a factual statement that Iran is poor economically compared to KSA and the combined Arabs as well as insignificant in terms of size and population in a direct comparison.

Now, you should mention the grave unmotivated personal insults aimed at me, false accusations, claims of me being 10 different nationalities, religions, users, insults at mothers and what not.

And I could have written 1500 posts in this thread, as long as they are not troll posts or off-topic posts or otherwise. Thank you very much.

Anyway since Iranian users ere have suddenly started to "love" KSA, I will be eagerly awaiting their conduct on PDF in regards to Arabs. Maybe we will see no propaganda, insults etc. anymore. Looking forward to that. Maybe those people might even have interesting discussions about the topics of the region.

 

[Tamerlane]

I was really interested in this thread, but it’s been flooded with spam and become unreadable.

 

[Corruptistan]

I was really interested in this thread, but it’s been flooded with spam and become unreadable.

You are not paying attention to the posts then. Most posts have been nothing else but posts about KSA (wider Arab) - Iran relations.

Unless you wanted to read one-liners of blind uncritical praise of something that has been repeated numerous times without any results, if you were aware of the topic at hand. I now understand why you are not interested, lol.

 

[HGV]

I was really interested in this thread, but it’s been flooded with spam and become unreadable.

Unfortunately hijacked by one obsessed individual spamming with essays of lies and racist hatred.

 

[mike2000 is back]

https://twitter.com/x/status/1634158908452290562

https://twitter.com/x/status/1634160899685511169

https://twitter.com/x/status/1634161236198801409

Lol Hope it lasts, until Houthis rebels launch another Iranian supplied rocket on Saudi soil

Settle down my friend.

To be honest he does make a good point though. I don't think this agreement will change ground realities and neither will Iran want to give up its leverage and proxies over Arab states like in Yemen, Syria, Iraq, lebanon etc. We have to be realistic in life instead of living in a bubble or fantasy.
However, this deal is still better to have ties and be able to talk than none at all. So this is still a good point..

 

[Corruptistan]

Lol Hope it lasts, until Houthis rebels launch another Iranian supplied rocket on Saudi soil


To be honest he does make a good point though. I don't think this agreement will change ground realities.

As the Israeli-American-Jewish-Zionist-Half-German-Half Black Najd-Russian agent that I am, obviously untrue, only one-liners singing the praises of this agreement before any concrete results have emerged and blind faith/worship of the Iranian Mullah's who have never contributed to unrest anywhere in the Arab world nor meddled in internal Arab matters. No, that is only the work of the Western empire of evil.



Anyway luckily for KSA they have a great track record of shooting down Houthi missile and drones and one of the best air defenses in the world that keeps improving all the time and is very battle-hardened.

https://twitter.com/x/status/1406416055052943360

Latest addition as per the rumors will be South Korean and more Chinese systems.

But that is what I am writing, you are shaking hands, signing new agreements, peace deals, rapprochement,, and a few days later you or your partners are catching fishing boats full of weapons intended for the Houthis in Yemen.

 

[Jango]

Other than sectarian differences which already existed before modern-day Iran and KSA emerged and which are mostly about power struggles and local circumstances much more than just religious differences.

But we are falsely attributing internal sectarian and ethnic problems within Pakistan to outside forces, while they might have ignited the already existing fire, they did not create it. I don't believe so at least. Nor do I feel that there is any genuine Sunni-Shia hostility in Pakistan. I don't see it among Pakistanis.

https://www.usip.org/sites/default/files/PB180-Pakistan-Resurgent-Sectarian-War.pdf

The mosque down the street from my home, in main Islamabad, has a Saudi sponsored mosque (or at least it used to be). The khateeb there would openly give fatwas against Shias, so much so that once on Eid ki namaz my father got up and left while the maulvi was giving his khutba.

 

[Corruptistan]

https://www.usip.org/sites/default/files/PB180-Pakistan-Resurgent-Sectarian-War.pdf

The mosque down the street from my home, in main Islamabad, has a Saudi sponsored mosque (or at least it used to be). The khateeb there would openly give fatwas against Shias, so much so that once on Eid ki namaz my father got up and left while the maulvi was giving his khutba.

But you know what is funny, when I lived in KSA, no Imam or Mosque used any anti-Shia rhetoric. It was always Israel and West. This was during the height of the Sahwa movement in KSA when the Mutaween were patrolling the streets. Post 9/11, post Iraq-US invasion.

You know what is also crazy, those Mullahs in Pakistan who are sectarian (works both ways) are Pakistanis themselves tolerated/appointed/controlled by Pakistanis themselves.

In the West every second mosque is KSA/Arab founded and they are all employing local clerics that are following local laws. They are appointed through the local Islamic communities who again work with the secular comments in place. The only thing that Saudis and other donors (Turks and Iranians do it too) do is to provide the money for the mosque, found the buying of the land the mosque is built on and rest is for the upkeep of the mosque and Muslim community.

In the case of Arabs, unless it is founded by Iraqis, Lebanese or Yemenis, it always tends to be Sunni clerics appointed (which is normal).

Rest is the responsibility of the state in question where said mosque is built.

 

[White and Green with M/S]

Guys please ignore @Corruptistan and just report him as much as you can , he is one sided troll

 

[Jango]

But you know what is funny, when I lived in KSA, no Imam or Mosque used any anti-Shia rhetoric. It was always Israel and West. This was during the height of the Sahwa movement in KSA when the Mutaween were patrolling the streets. Post 9/11, post Iraq-US invasion.

You know what is also crazy, those Mullahs in Pakistan who are sectarian (works both ways) are Pakistanis themselves tolerated/appointed/controlled by Pakistanis themselves.

In the West every second mosque is KSA/Arab founded and they are all employing local clerics that are following local laws. They are appointed through the local Islamic communities who again work with the secular comments in place. The only thing that Saudis and other donors (Turks and Iranians do it too) do is to provide the money for the mosque, found the buying of the land the mosque is built on and rest is for the upkeep of the mosque and Muslim community.

In the case of Arabs, unless it is founded by Iraqis, Lebanese or Yemenis, it always tends to be Sunni clerics appointed (which is normal).

Rest is the responsibility of the state in question where said mosque is built.

I agree with what you are saying.

Of course when they export their ideology, they would export the best product. Zia has to share a great amount of the blame too. Our state deliberately welcomed this financing, and gave them room to grow. No one is saying sab ghalti doosron ki hai.