Iran and India have similar views on Afghanistan

[Mercenary]

Yes, Iran moved towards India because they supported NA and Pakistan supported Pashtun dominated Taliban but it has nothing to do with the Iranians feeling any sort of "betrayal" for Pakistan not lending support during the Iran-Iraq war. Like I said the Iranian officials themselves never peddled this line so you saying it as some sort of fact is foolish and there is not one source anywhere that will say Pakistan had anything to do with the losses suffered by the Iranians. In fact the Iranians themselves prolonged the war when they fought on despite repelling the Iraqi invasion.

Its not about quantifiying losses. There is no way to articulate how many casualties could Pakistan have prevented Iran from having if it had supported it militarily.

The fact remains in 1965 and 1971, Iran supported us in our wars with India but when it came to their struggle with Iraq, we refused them.

Those radar bulbs could have saved thousands of lives in the "War of Cities" phase of the War when Iraqi jets were bombing Iranian cities and Iranian Radar was blind to their incoming approaches. And that is just one aspect of it.

Betrayal does not need to be spelled out but we can judge from the actions of the Iranians and how they started to view Pakistan after the refusal to sell military arms to Iran in 1980.

Iran prolonging the war is Iran's problem.

 

[Serpentine]

To be honest, Iran's global motives are, in fact, driven by its sectarian basis. Iran's support for Shia dominated Northern Alliance, Iran's support for Shia-Hasmite Syrian minority rule and Iran's support for Shia dominated Hizbullah is an open thing. Liberals like Hatimi tried to implement a more open and broader foreign policy but the Mullah Regime of Iran resisted and lead to an isolated Iran.
Even in the recent iranian isolation, Pakistan despite her all weakness was amongst the few countries to promote a soft corner Iran. Our eastern fellows were as mum as their government.
Every country has her interests, Even US stepped in Afghanistan to protect and promote her interest. So they did in Iraq and so are they thinking to do in Iran. Global peace is an excuse, to be honest.

Says the man whose country did everthing it could to keep a very extremist Sunni group in power in Afghanistan and helped the killing process of many Afghans who were slaughtered by Talibo-fascists.

And about Iran,we are friends with anyone who accepts us warmly,so it's natural not to be so good with those extremists who have their historical hate against Shias.Why should we be friend with them?

Do we see Pakistan helping Shias?do we see Saudi Arabia helping Shias?or Turkey?or UAE?whose motives are not sectarian?
So why the hell shouldn't we support Shias?
While they wish for our death,don't expect us to send flowers for them,simple as that.

 

[KingMamba]

Its not about quantifiying losses. There is no way to articulate how many casualties could Pakistan have prevented Iran from having if it had supported it militarily.

The fact remains in 1965 and 1971, Iran supported us in our wars with India but when it came to their struggle with Iraq, we refused them.

Those radar bulbs could have saved thousands of lives in the "War of Cities" phase of the War when Iraqi jets were bombing Iranian cities and Iranian Radar was blind to their incoming approaches. And that is just one aspect of it.

Betrayal does not need to be spelled out but we can judge from the actions of the Iranians and how they started to view Pakistan after the refusal to sell military arms to Iran in 1980.

Iran prolonging the war is Iran's problem.

Do you not believe Pakistan had a valid reason to be cautious of a regime which had just thrown out one of its oldest allies?? A regime which was polarizing the Shia community of Pakistan the same way the Saudi Salafists are polarising the Sunnis today. Secondly the Iranians never blamed Pakistan for any such thing and whatever difference arose was 100% influenced by the proxy war going on in Afghanistan between the Taliban and the NA.

Says the man whose country did everthing it could to keep a very extremist Sunni group in power in Afghanistan and helped the killing process of many Afghans who were slaughtered by Talibo-fascists.

And about Iran,we are friends with anyone who accepts us warmly,so it's natural not to be so good with those extremists who have their historical hate against Shias.Why should we be friend with them?

Do we see Pakistan helping Shias?do we see Saudi Arabia helping Shias?or Turkey?or UAE?whose motives are not sectarian?
So why the hell shouldn't we support Shias?
While they wish for our death,don't expect us to send flowers for them,simple as that.

The NA were no saints either. You have to take into consideration that the NA was a united front of the remaining warlords of Afghanistan who the Taliban hadn't defeated under the leadership of Ahmad Shah Massoud, who himself was also a warlord before the advent of the NA. They had done just as much damage as the Taliban did.

 

[Serpentine]

The NA were no saints either. You have to take into consideration that the NA was a united front of the remaining warlords of Afghanistan who the Taliban hadn't defeated under the leadership of Ahmad Shah Massoud, who himself was also a warlord before the advent of the NA. They had done just as much damage as the Taliban did.

Oh how sweet.
I know you will continue bringing these lame excuses more and more.So I won't enter discussion.
Just one thing:
I don't remember NA troops hanging around in Afghanistan,killing Afghans only because they were Sunnis or anything else.I don't remember them destroying religious ancient historical sites.I don't remember them attacking other embassies and killing diplomats only because they were Sunnis.I don't remember them going around people and stoning 'bad' women.

No they were not angels,but comapring to Talibo-fascists,they were saints,and Ahmad Shah Masoud was a brave warior and beloved by every true Afghan patriot.His memory will always remain.

 

[INDIC]

Except Pakistan every country in the region interest are common which is to stop Taliban from regaining the control.

 

[KingMamba]

Oh how sweet.
I know you will continue bringing these lame excuses more and more.So I won't enter discussion.
Just one thing:
I don't remember NA troops hanging around in Afghanistan,killing Afghans only because they were Sunnis or anything else.I don't remember them destroying religious ancient historical sites.I don't remember them attacking other embassies and killing diplomats only because they were Sunnis.I don't remember them going around people and stoning 'bad' women.

No they were not angels,but comapring to Talibo-fascists,they were saints,and Ahmad Shah Masoud was a brave warior and beloved by every true Afghan patriot.His memory will always remain.

They were all murderers and bigots despite what you say, fine let us not discuss this further.

Excuses for what?? I am just stating a fact.

 

[INDIC]

Oh how sweet.
I know you will continue bringing these lame excuses more and more.So I won't enter discussion.
Just one thing:
I don't remember NA troops hanging around in Afghanistan,killing Afghans only because they were Sunnis or anything else.I don't remember them destroying religious ancient historical sites.I don't remember them attacking other embassies and killing diplomats only because they were Sunnis.I don't remember them going around people and stoning 'bad' women.

No they were not angels,but comapring to Talibo-fascists,they were saints,and Ahmad Shah Masoud was a brave warior and beloved by every true Afghan patriot.His memory will always remain.

I want to know how was Iran Soviet relation changed after the Islamic revolution in Iran.

 

[acid rain]

Except Pakistan every country in the region interest are common which is to stop Taliban from regaining the control.

If better sense prevails even Pakistan shouldn't be keen on Taliban takeover of Afghanistan.

If this happens, Pakistan Taliban will grow much stronger, they should look at safeguarding their own interests in Afghanistan rather than again support taliban to take over AF.

Looks like they are holding on to the Haqqanis as a continngency plan if nothing else works out.

 

[Serpentine]

I want to know how was Iran Soviet relation changed after the Islamic revolution in Iran.

Iran was against the Communism ideology,and the relations were not good.Not to mention heavy Soviet support of Iraq in the war with Iran.
The slogan of revolution was: 'No west,No East,Only the Islamic Republic'

3 years before the fall of USSR,Khomeini sent a popular letter to Gurbachev and told him in a part of his letter:

''It is clear to everyone that Communism should henceforth be sought in world museums of political history,'' Ahmad Khomeini quoted the message as saying. ''Materialism cannot save humanity from the crisis of disbelief in spirituality, which is the basic affliction of human societies in the West and the East.''

You may ask why Iran has good relations with China,it's a whole different story.Today China has only a name from Communism rather than the whole system,and it's vanishing rapidly.It's very different from Soviet Union.

 

[Azatavrear]

Oh how sweet.
I know you will continue bringing these lame excuses more and more.So I won't enter discussion.
Just one thing:
I don't remember NA troops hanging around in Afghanistan,killing Afghans only because they were Sunnis or anything else.I don't remember them destroying religious ancient historical sites.I don't remember them attacking other embassies and killing diplomats only because they were Sunnis.I don't remember them going around people and stoning 'bad' women.

No they were not angels,but comapring to Talibo-fascists,they were saints,and Ahmad Shah Masoud was a brave warior and beloved by every true Afghan patriot.His memory will always remain.

Well said.

Ahmad Shah Masoud was a Warrior/leader and a military genius on how to use the terrain to your advantage. The Talibans were scared of him and if it wasn't for that cowardly assassination by suicide bomber of Masoud he would have been the President of Afghanistan with Taliban crushed for good and a more prosperous Afghanistan.

May he Rest In Peace.

 

[SBD-3]

Not really because they supported Azerbaijan's (Shia) enemy Armenia (Christian?).

Other than that, yeah they do have a sectarian motives.

Its rather because of Turkish Links. Azarbaijan's strong political aliegnment with Turkey makes them unacceptable for Iran.

 

[SBD-3]

Says the man whose country did everthing it could to keep a very extremist Sunni group in power in Afghanistan and helped the killing process of many Afghans who were slaughtered by Talibo-fascists.

If tablians were merderes, NA wasn't far behind by much either. Both sides didn't hesitate from using killing as a tool to project power and influence. So your statement presents only a partial truth (whether intentionaly stated or otherwise).

And about Iran,we are friends with anyone who accepts us warmly,so it's natural not to be so good with those extremists who have their historical hate against Shias.Why should we be friend with them?

But the problem of Iran is that its enimostly is not confined to merely so called anti-iran sunni states. The whole of ME arms build up is usually in response to Iran. Their acceptence for US is a result of concerns from Iran. US and West keep Iran at distance. Iran doesn't have good relationships with Turkey. Iran herself hasn't done anything significant to wane her regional perception. Even if me we consider other ME nations to be inactive on this front.

Do we see Pakistan helping Shias?do we see Saudi Arabia helping Shias?or Turkey?or UAE?whose motives are not sectarian? So why the hell shouldn't we support Shias? While they wish for our death,don't expect us to send flowers for them,simple as that.

Well that what i exactly ment, Iran had never been able to think above sectarian basis. If iran and her allies find themselves isolated, you would have to argue the causailty i.e. were they isolated because of iran or did they isolate themselves. To be honest, no body has made any effort to break the ice in the region and whosoever finds herself in hot waters is only to blame herself for being in the position.

 

[SBD-3]

Its not about quantifiying losses. There is no way to articulate how many casualties could Pakistan have prevented Iran from having if it had supported it militarily.

The fact remains in 1965 and 1971, Iran supported us in our wars with India but when it came to their struggle with Iraq, we refused them.

Those radar bulbs could have saved thousands of lives in the "War of Cities" phase of the War when Iraqi jets were bombing Iranian cities and Iranian Radar was blind to their incoming approaches. And that is just one aspect of it.

Betrayal does not need to be spelled out but we can judge from the actions of the Iranians and how they started to view Pakistan after the refusal to sell military arms to Iran in 1980.

Iran prolonging the war is Iran's problem.

1- One of the biggest problems with Iran in Iraq war was the shift in political scenario before the war. With Shah's regime toppled, there was a great struggle even within Iranian forces. Pakistan-Iran golden era was mostly confined to shah's regime, the relationship went fairly cold post iranian revoltion (1979)
2- IRAF was flying top of the line US jets F-5s,F-4s and F-14s in 70s when we were opeating vintage sabers. Pakistan got her first hands on top of the line US tech in mid-80s. So when Iran went in a war with Iraq, the lack of spares faced by IRAF could not be compensated because no body in the region had access to that technology.
3- IRAF did operate far superior equipment than that of Iraqi counterparts and did use their superiority to good advantage. Do take some time out for reading on IRAF in iraq wars. (I posted a few interesting chapters in military histroy sometime ago).
4- We also heard Indonesia sending their Navy, we heard Iran's F-5s entering Pakistan, we heard Saudi's coming to help but we dont have a single account where these platforms were used in War. These equipments may have been summoned for doomsday scenario but Pakistan never used them in active theature due to political implications.
So i would rather suggest to analyse situation from the perspective of a neutral observer rather than reacting emotionally.

 

[jandk]

india should be friends with both israel and iran. israel because they are developed country and can provide technology to india. iran because we need friends in middle east. we don't have to pick sides.
regarding afghanistan, india's views are quite clear and happen to converge with almost every nation except pakistan...

 

[clmeta]

India has successfully managed to maintain friendly relations with both Israel and Arabs. Now we need to do another tight rope walking between US+Arab+Israel vs Iran+Russian+China.
Just stay neutral.

india should be friends with both israel and iran. israel because they are developed country and can provide technology to india. iran because we need friends in middle east. we don't have to pick sides.
regarding afghanistan, india's views are quite clear and happen to converge with almost every nation except pakistan...