Iqbal: A new beginning, an end to misconceptions

[XTREME]

You crazy man ?

Just because there are elongated conversations with Rumi and others does not conclude he was a sufi or what ever grade.

You are trying to belittle Iqbal by calling him a sufi or whatever.

Please keep these excuses to your self, and let Iqbal be a muslim for ever.


باغي مريد


ہم کو تو ميسر نہيں مٹي کا ديا بھي
گھر پير کا بجلي کے چراغوں سے ہے روشن
شہري ہو، دہاتي ہو، مسلمان ہے سادہ
مانند بتاں پجتے ہيں کعبے کے برہمن
نذرانہ نہيں ، سود ہے پيران حرم کا
ہر خرقہء سالوس کے اندر ہے مہاجن
ميراث ميں آئي ہے انھيں مسند ارشاد
زاغوں کے تصرف ميں عقابوں کے نشيمن

**************************
خانقاہ


رمز و ايما اس زمانے کے ليے موزوں نہيں
اور آتا بھي نہيں مجھ کو سخن سازي کا فن
'قم باذن اللہ' کہہ سکتے تھے جو ، رخصت ہوئے
خانقاہوں ميں مجاور رہ گئے يا گورکن!

***************************

Easy bro, calm down. I am not saying these things by my own and I am not here quarrel with you. Tasawwuf is Shariat e Batni. If you need some more explanation over Iqbal (RA) or Tasawwuf, I could give you. But don't go like that ... and Sufis are Mo'min. They have no lust of dunya.

 

[Sugarcane]

well hotaki started a debate and i seriously want to apply his principles to himself but he is just going round about not answering the qestions

The ones who understand no explanation is needed, the ones who don't no explanation is required.

 

[SQ8]

No Sir its not misinterpretation Sir its quite clear same thing was said by HAZRAT ABU BAKAR RA that as long as I decide according to Quran and Sunnah follow me and If if don't than stop me and don't follow me and that is what Quran says Sir Caliph can't be allowed to take decisions which are not according to Quran and Sunnah Sir

After assuming the office of Caliphate Abu Bakr's first address was as follow:
I have been given the authority over you, and I am not the best of you. If I do well, help me; and if I do wrong, set me right. Sincere regard for truth is loyalty and disregard for truth is treachery. The weak amongst you shall be strong with me until I have secured his rights, if God wills; and the strong amongst you shall be weak with me until I have wrested from him the rights of others, if God wills. Obey me so long as I obey God and His Messenger. But if I disobey God and His Messenger, ye owe me no obedience. Arise for your prayer, God have mercy upon you.

On 22 August Caliph Abu Bakr died. Umar assumed the office of Caliph on the same day. He then addressed the Muslims in his Inaugural address:
"O ye faithful! Abu Bakr is no more amongst us. He has the satisfaction that he has successfully piloted the ship of the Muslim state to safety after negotiating the stormy sea. He successfully waged the apostasy wars, and thanks to him, Islam is now supreme in Arabia. After Abu Bakr, the mantle of the Caliphate has fallen on my shoulders. I swear it before God that I never coveted this office. I wished that it would have devolved on some other person more worthy than me. But now that in national interest, the responsibility for leading the Muslims has come to vest in me, I assure you that I will not run away from my post, and will make an earnest effort to discharge the onerous duties of the office to the best of my capacity in accordance with the injunctions of Islam. Allah has examined me from you and you from me, In the performance of my duties, I will seek guidance from the Holy Book, and will follow the examples set by the Holy Prophet and Abu Bakr. In this task I seek your assistance. If I follow the right path, follow me. If I deviate from the right path, correct me so that we are not led astray.

I do not disagree with you , but you arent supporting your argument with this.
You are stating a historical reference which has been quoted in different context by different scholars.
You need to specify the relevance as an order to justify the usage of Islam outside the Caliph's own conduct.
Do you understand what I am asking of you?
I want to see the specific direct and unambiguous direction by the Quran on such and such usage of the law in this manner..
The Caliph's have all spoken on how their conduct will reflect the Sunnah and the Quran..
Not how the entire state is to be run even after they are gone.

 

[Thorough Pro]

Try This: http://www.islamicsearchcenter.com/...onstruction of Religious Thought in Islam.pdf

Great! Thanks a lot.

 

[Zarvan]

I do not disagree with you , but you arent supporting your argument with this.
You are stating a historical reference which has been quoted in different context by different scholars.
You need to specify the relevance as an order to justify the usage of Islam outside the Caliph's own conduct.
Do you understand what I am asking of you?
I want to see the specific direct and unambiguous direction by the Quran on such and such usage of the law in this manner..
The Caliph's have all spoken on how their conduct will reflect the Sunnah and the Quran..
Not how the entire state is to be run even after they are gone.

Sir states will be run the same way the way of Quran and Sunnah that is clear from Quran and from Sunnah and from ways of Sahabas Shariat rules are for all times and they have to be implemented by governments with full force other wise ALLAH has stated clearly in the Quran those who don't decided what ALLAH has sent are Kafirs

 

[Zarvan]

O you who believe! Obey Allâh and obey the Messenger (Muhammad SAW), and those of you (Muslims) who are in authority. (And) if you differ in anything amongst yourselves, refer it to Allâh and His Messenger (SAW), if you believe in Allâh and in the Last Day. That is better and more suitable for final determination.

 

[Signalian]

Iqbal's poetry does potray alot of stuff from sufism. I consider Iqbal more than a poet and a thinker. His poetry is for generations to come and carry great advices.

 

[Mughal1]

For better understanding of the quran, deen of islam and pakistan see
HERE and HERE.

 

[Lavrentiy]

Iqbal is a creation of the Punjabi Mindset which could not swallow the fact that Quaid-e-Azam was a non-punjabi; so this balloon of "Iqbal the thinker" was inflated and his status was falsely raised to the level of Quaid.

This balloon soothes the egos of the Punjabi Establishment which, in fact, have zero contribution towards the Pakistan Movement.
---------------------------------
Iqbal's philosophical thought is a charba of Friedrich Nietzsche. Iqbal had no clarity of thoughts and was as confused as any common man of the sub-continent.

He is light years behind the western philosophy despite his considerable exposure to it when he was studying in Europe.

 

[Darth Vader]

The Problem is Iqbal was genious and understand a genious you must on a genious to because lower minds cant absorb that kind of knowledge properly
People tend to follow what they could see
What people forget is islam in the eariler stages gave power to even locals of a society implementing the true spirit of democracy but that changed with the time
We dont have to follow any system
We already have a good system for almost 1500 years which we have forgotten but that system cant be taught by some so called mullah in mosque because that have the common sense of knowledge about society to share what islam truly shares
Doing hafiz is a good thing but just doing hifz while not understanding what is says is more bad
Both teaching of science and islam should be taught to our childern because for me islam and science run parallel
If you have common sense tou you will understand islam and what is says

Iqbal is a creation of the Punjabi Mindset which could not swallow the fact that Quaid-e-Azam was a non-punjabi; so this balloon of "Iqbal the thinker" was inflated and his status was falsely raised to the level of Quaid.

This balloon soothes the egos of the Punjabi Establishment which, in fact, have zero contribution towards the Pakistan Movement.
---------------------------------
Iqbal's philosophical thought is a charba of Friedrich Nietzsche. Iqbal had no clarity of thoughts and was as confused as any common man of the sub-continent.

He is light years behind the western philosophy despite his considerable exposure to it when he was studying in Europe.

You need to read history again and the punjab phobia seriously

You must read what Quaid e Azam said about iqbal as i said to under a genious you must be genious so its ok if you don't understand him

 

[Gauss]

Pakistanis shouldnt beat the Iqbal drum too much everywhere. He was someone special and not for the common but Pakistanis have been hell bent on putting him in the pocket of the common man over the years, to whom he is not really relevant. Pakistanis have put much effort into extracting practical guidelines from his poetry. But he is a philosopher and philosophy is not dealt this way. It doesnt give practical recipes but creates a state in the mind which aids in further understanding existence and reach conclusions on our own. But Pakistanis try to extract conclusions form iqbal's philosophy. Due to lack of a philosophical background in this region this absurd approach is applied.

 

[TMA]

Iqbal is a creation of the Punjabi Mindset which could not swallow the fact that Quaid-e-Azam was a non-punjabi; so this balloon of "Iqbal the thinker" was inflated and his status was falsely raised to the level of Quaid.

This balloon soothes the egos of the Punjabi Establishment which, in fact, have zero contribution towards the Pakistan Movement.
---------------------------------
Iqbal's philosophical thought is a charba of Friedrich Nietzsche. Iqbal had no clarity of thoughts and was as confused as any common man of the sub-continent.

He is light years behind the western philosophy despite his considerable exposure to it when he was studying in Europe.

Iqbal was an ethnic Kashmiri born in Punjab but nonetheless an ethnic Kashmiri.

On the contrary he is light years ahead of Western philosophy especially in his Dari works which Pakistanis unfortunately do not have access to as our forebears did not make Dari the national language. (That is another topic altogether).

 

[Gauss]

He is light years behind the western philosophy despite his considerable exposure to it when he was studying in Europe.

I am a student of western philosophy and i can easily discern that you have not read a single word of western philosophy. bus yahan aa kar chawalian mar rahay hain.

 

[TMA]

I am a student of western philosophy and i can easily discern that you have not read a single word of western philosophy. bus yahan aa kar chawalian mar rahay hain.

Okay if you say so.

 

[Gauss]

Okay if you say so.

why are you answering my reply to lavrentiy? cant you see i quoted him?