International Media account on PAF’s role in 1965 war

[Sneaker]

By what historical proof are you claiming this? some war college journal perhaps? Or just something you decided to put up because.. well.. you're Indian.. thats it.

There is a saying, you don't need mirror to see your palms.. army got to protect all three flanks...

 

[MilSpec]

Nice graphics, but the illustrator could have been a bit more truthful in depicting a 4 track railway station rather than a 10 -12 ?? track railway station.

View attachment 310863

lol

Perhaps, it would actually have been a 2 track railway station back then - converted to a 4 track one now. They added an extra platform - taking the grand total to 3.



Also, depends on when this illustration was drawn.

Well he is right to assume track shrinkage as a given, India is one of the odd ones where the number of tracks grows as time goes by rather than shrinking in numbers..... lol

On a separate thought, Why so many feel good threads these days?

In all seriousness, that is exactly what they are doing. There was a well documented effort by the British to rewrite and reeducate the masses under the Raj to create divides, and the current Indians have spared no effort to rewrite History with a very focused anti-Muslim bias.

This is no conspiracy but a solid attempt. As the masses are, they will buy into it since one .5% would be bothered to actually research what they are reading. The next generation of Indian that is being bred, is being done so with an inherent hatred towards Islam from their primary classes.

Any examples?

 

[SQ8]

Any examples?

A Sudden onslaught of historical corrections to the history of Islamic rule in India beginning with a complete whitewash of the role of preaching and mystics. Replacing their massive contribution and role in conversions with the myth of massive forced conversions.

 

[MilSpec]

A Sudden onslaught of historical corrections to the history of Islamic rule in India beginning with a complete whitewash of the role of preaching and mystics. Replacing their massive contribution and role in conversions with the myth of massive forced conversions.

That is the onslaught of 24hr news cycle, the UGC-NGC books haven't changed anything. It's still the same history we read in schools.
More importantly with the educational system prevalent in India, I highly doubt much changes the with the tweaks the loudmouth politicos do want, at the end of the day the child will be tested in his ability to rote learn the exact date when Gandhi went to south africa and missed a train, or Nehru had a meeting with some white dude about a round table conference.

When I did endure the school system , History was the least of my concerns and that is the way our school system works, (also the fact that I did not go to a fancy private school - but a government school that charges rs 17.80 / year as fees). My interest in Indian history only grew after I finished my engineering, and started reading about events in History that I was actually interested in. Jinnah's 14 points actually meant we had to remember the 14 points word to word and not really discuss the implications of those 14 points.

The school system I wen't to ensured that no religion was presented in a negative light and I highly doubt that has changed. Now our resident BJP friends will attack me and call me anti-national, but all the rabble rousing you see in the Indian Media about aurangezeb, akbar and other mughals has less to do about revisionism but the constant need for right wing politicians to remain in the 24 hr news cycle. There are a thousand things for the current government to do, but they get involved in absolutely petty issues and make a mockery out of the national discourse, and I do believe it is by design. It serves a purpose of "janta ki aankon mein dhul jhookna". It keeps the news channels busy, Political spokesmen employed, Party workers engaged and the real issues and incompetency out of the public purvey.

 

[illusion8]

On a separate thought, Why so many feel good threads these days?

Pakistani PR on full on mode..The Pakistani establishment wants to imitate India in diplomacy and the West in media PR.

The thing is, if the core is weak, crooked.and rotten no amount dressing up, applying make up or shouting from the rooftop will generate any positive response.

 

[Dazzler]

Ironically enough, you guys would fall under the same category of hypocrites because when the west accuses Pakistan of not "doing enough" -- you all are like "Aha! -- the credible western media has spoken!" -- but when the same media is talking about your arse whooping its the
"western propaganda in action"

Typical meetha meetha hup hup, karwa karwa thoo thoo attitude.

 

[zebra7]

Most of you guys (specially Pakistani Carnivorous) must have heard about and often enjoyed the delicious BBQ, but this article just gave birth to BBBBQ...............the additional two B's would Bharti Bund ...........hahaha




You are so wrong, It was bharti bihari who went to Dady Amreeka first to beg them to interfere and stop Pakistan from reaming you back side.........we were all ready to go all the way but once again we found were looking at a toothless barking enemy

Funny you are still living in some Lala land.

Janab it was the Nawaz Shareef himself revealed that he ran to the Clinton in an open rally in front of the thousands of people.

Here is something for you

 

[sylvester conception]

Facinating about how good the PAF pilots where 50 years ago in 1965.....

Can I ask ARE THE PAF PILOTS still better than the Indians .

I ASK simply because the Indian air force have better combat planes in far greater nos and better trainers like hawk aircraft from. uk,. The indian pilots also enjoy a annual budget of 5 times the PAF pilot.

As good as your pilots are ( according to this thread) they are having to make do with inferior equipment and modest training equipment and modest training budgets.

I have seen the Indians training in UK with RAF with the French Air force and rafale and just now with USA red Flag and UAE F16/60 IN UAE. .............. I ALSO HEAR they are now in pilot exchange programme with the mighty Israelis..

Don't dwell oin 1965 or 1971 WHAT ARE THE INDIANS doing in GWAILOR with Singpore F16 or the Israeli or thye USA in red Flag.

FOCUS at your enemys main strenghths NOT their weaknesess if you ever wish to beat them

 

[I S I]

.

Please don't bump up old threads.

 

[Samlee]

the original poster is selecting quoting Western media.

the 1965 war lasted 2 weeks. if the paf is winning the war why would Pakistan agree to ceasefire ? I have never known of a victorious military agreeing to a ceasefire especially when the political objectives have not been meet

I Can Ask Why Did Your Good Friend USSR Had Intervene????They Had No Sympathy For Us

And Also If You Were So Convincingly Winning The War Then Why Didn't You "Liberate" Azad Kashmir

 

[sylvester conception]

The indian pilots also enjoy a annual budget of 5 times the PAF pilot.

PAKISTAN AIR FORCES SHORTCOMINGS DON'T DETER, BUT BREED DARING

PAF C-130 made history in annals of aircombat in 1965

Pakistan Air Force Group Captain Eric G Hall was awarded Sitara-e-Jurat for conceiving and executing a unique air raid and creating history in the annals of air combat during the 1965 Indo-Pak war. In 1947, Eric G Hall opted for Pakistan and his finest hour came in 1965 when as a Group Captain and commanding the air transport base at Chaklala and with war with India imminent - he being conscious of PAF’s handicap of a lack of heavy bombers set up to fill this gap and came across a unique idea of converting a Pakistan Air Force C-130 transport plane to play the role of ‘Heavy Bomber’. After some modification a C-130 was made capable of carrying up to 20,000 lbs of bombs. After having conducted trials to prove the efficacy of the use of the C-130 transport as a heavy bomber in this hitherto novel and innovative role, Group Captain Eric G Hall himself volunteered to lead the first bombing mission over the Kathua Bridge on 11 September 1965. This was a most daring move and one of the finest examples of a commander leading from the cockpit. The mission was not only fraught with danger but the totally unarmed C-130 was also highly vulnerable to enemy fire. But the success of Group Captain Eric G Hall’s unique mission, he made history in the annals of air combat and this prompted the PAF high command to authorise nearly thirteen more bombing missions with the C-130 that also including the precision bombing of Indian heavy guns at Atari on the banks of the BRB Canal. The success of all these missions proved that Group Captain Eric G Hall of the PAF had hit the bull’s eye with his innovative and unique idea. For his valour and vision and service, Eric G Hall was awarded Sitara-e-Jurat in 1965 – he later rose to the rank of Air Vice Marshall in the Pakistan Air Force.

Today, PAF pilots remain one of the unique breed of combat pilots in the world, having shot down fighter jets belonging to the Air Forces of four countries - Indian, Israeli, USSR, and Afghanistan.


Pakistan Air Force Combat Experience
The Pakistan Air Force has fought more airwars than any other country in South Asia. Starting with two wars with India, Pakistani air force pilots also took part in two Arab-Israeli wars and also against the Afghan and Russian Air Force during the Afghan war. Faced with a good number of combat experiences it’s no wonder that Pakistan Air Force pilots have fared pretty well in notching up multiple kills.

Pakistan Air Force Squadron Leader Muhammad Mahmud Alam nicknamed the Little Dragon, emerged from the 1965 Indo-Pak war as Pakistan's top scoring fighter ace. Alam flying his US made F-86 Sabre fighter jet on 7 September 1965 engaged and downed five British made Hunter Hawker fighters of the Indian Air Force establishing a world record which till today (2016) stands unbeaten.

Pakistani pilots shot down 10 Israeli Air force jets
During the so-called ‘Six Day War‘ (1967), Pakistani pilot Saiful Azam flying for the Royal Jordanian Air force on June 5 engaged four Israeli jets over the Jordanian Mafraq air base. He shot down a Mystére commanded by Israeli pilot H. Boleh and damaged another that crash-landed in Israeli territory. Two days later, Jordanian air force commander sent Saiful Azam to help the Iraqi air force. While piloting an Iraqi Hunter Azam shot down two Israeli attacking planes.

In all Pakistani pilots during the so-called ‘Six Day War‘ in 1967, shot down a total of ten Israeli jets without losing a single pilot or aircraft. Saiful Azam, has the unique honor of being the only pilot in the world who has downed four Israeli jets – and served in four airforces; Pakistan, Jordan, Iraq and later Bangladesh. He also holds the world record of shooting-down three types of military aircraft in two different air forces.

During October 1973 Israel’s Yom Kippur war a squadron of Pakistan Air Force (PAF) arrived in Syria to fight alongside the Syrian Air Force and halted the Israeli advance over the Golan Heights. PAF pilots Sattar Alvi and Arif Mansoor, engaged and shot down an Israeli F-4 Phantom over Egyptian airspace, In another dogfight between the PAF and Israeli Air Force over Syrian airspace Pakistani pilots shot down an Israeli Mirage IICJ with air-to-air missiles flown by Israeli pilot M. Lutz. This was enough to convince other Israeli fighter planes to bug out and abort all further incursions into Syria. Other Pakistani pilots who joined the Syrian force as volunteers included future Air Marshal Nur Khan, Salem Metla, Shahbaz Khan, Wisaam Faris and Wisaam Shuja’at. Late President of Syria Hafiz Al Assad awarded two of the pilots’ Syria’s highest decorations for gallantry. All 12 volunteer PAF pilots scored direct hits against Israeli aircrafts and suffered no losses.

During the 1973 war, Flt. Lt. A. Sattar Alvi became the first Pakistani pilot, flying a Syrian aircraft to shoot down an Israeli Mirage in air combat. Similarly on the Egyptian front, PAF pilot Flt. Lt. M. Hatif, flying an Egyptian MiG-21 shot down an Israeli F-4 phantom in air combat while Pakistani Air Force did not lose a single pilot or aircraft in any of these engagements.

10-0 Kill Ratio in Air Combat by PAF in Soviet Afghan War.

On 17 May 1986 Sqn. Ldr. A. Hameed Qadri of No. 9 Squadron, flying his F-16A Fighting Falcon (S. No. 82-723) shot down 2 Soviet/Afghan Su-22s in a single sortie 16,000 ft. over Parachinar, Pakistan with one AIM-9L Sidewinder Kill, and one Gun Kill.

On 30 March 1987 Wng. Cdr. Abdul Razzaq of No. 9 Squadron, flying a PAF F-16A Fighting Falcon from PAF Sargodha shot down one Soviet/Afghan An-26 near Miranshah, Pakistan while on a recce mission.

On 16 April 1987 Sqn. Ldr. Badar Islam of No. 14 Squadron, flying a F-16A Fighting Falcon from PAF Minhas (Kamra) shot down one Soviet/Afghan Su-22 that was strafing Pakistani villages near Tull, Pakistan along with another Su-22 and a pair of MiG-23MLDs flying top cover. The remaining three aircraft bugged out.

On 8 April 1988 Sqn. Ldr. Athar Bokhari of No. 14 Squadron, flying a F-16A Fighting Falcon (S. No. 85-725) from PAF Minhas (Kamra) shot down one Soviet Su-25 flown by Col. Ruskoi Alexander Valadimirovich of the Soviet Air Force with a AIM-9L Sidewinder during a night interception over Parachinar, Pakistan, while three Su-25s accompanying him bugged out. The Soviet Su-25 pilot, Col. Ruskoi Alexander Valadimirovich who ejected and later was Vice-President of Russia was taken prisoner by Pakistani authorities.

Six Soviet MiG-23MLDs Vs two PAF F-16s

On 12 September 1988 Flt. Lt. Khalid Mahmood of No. 14 Squadron, flying a F-16A Fighting Falcon (S. No. 85-728) from PAF Minhas (Kamra) shot down two of six Soviet MiG-23MLDs near Nawagai border area with Pakistan. Both Kills were made during a single sortie with AIM-9L and AIM-9P Sidewinders.

Two PAF F-16s Vs. 6 Soviet/Afghan Su-22s.

On 3 November 1988 Flt. Lt. Khalid Mahmood of No. 14 Squadron, flying a F-16A Fighting Falcon (S. No. 84-717) from PAF Minhas (Kamra) Six Soviet/Afghan Su-22s. (3 on ground attack and 3 flying top cover) near Tull, Pakistan made two kill made with 2 AIM-9L Sidewinders. One Afghan pilot, Capt. Hashim, was captured after bailing out.

On 20/21 November 1988 Muhammad Abbas Khattak of No. 14 Squadron, flying a F-16A Fighting Falcon from PAF Minhas (Kamra) shot down one Soviet An-26 on a recce mission inside Pakistan. Khattak later rose to the rank of Chief of the Air Staff, 1994-1997.

On 31 January 1989 Flt. Lt. Khalid Mahmood of No. 14 Squadron, flying a F-16B Fighting Falcon from PAF Minhas (Kamra) while on a solo 'hot scramble' engaged a Soviet An-24 (night interception) on a bombing run near Bannu, Pakistan, the aircraft crashed while attempting to surrender and Mahmood earned credited for a "manoeuvre kill'.

No PAF jet was shot down the Afghan/Russian air force establishing a 10-0 kill ratio in favor of PAF * During the entire, period of war - only a single PAF F-16 was shot down after mistakenly being hit with a AIM-9L by another PAF F-16. *

MORE than 10 jets were shot down during the war, however REAL numbers of jets shot down by the PAF during the Afghan/Russian war is still "classified". *

PAF is one of the FEW air forces in the world having REAL experience with F-16s in air to air combat and having shot down enemy jets with these.*

One Soviet/Afghan Mig-21 surrendered is now on display at the Karachi Air Museum of the PAF.

Today, PAF pilots remain one of the unique breed of combat pilots in the world, having shot down fighter jets belonging to the Air Forces of four countries - Indian, Israeli, USSR, and Afghanistan.

Source: Pakistan Military Consortium

 

[khanmubashir]

the original poster is selecting quoting Western media.

wh did u agree 2 ceasefire if u were winning wihout capturing lahore ur goal u started 5war 4 our goal was 2 defend it till end and save from capture which we did as u said I have never known of a victorious military agreeing to a ceasefire especially when the political objectives have not been meet and wh did ur shastri died in tashkunt people dont die of broken heart from winning

 

[wiseone2]

I Can Ask Why Did Your Good Friend USSR Had Intervene????They Had No Sympathy For Us

And Also If You Were So Convincingly Winning The War Then Why Didn't You "Liberate" Azad Kashmir

Why would Pakistan listen to USSR if they were winning ? It is not like Soviets could threaten Pakistan

 

[Samlee]

Why would Pakistan listen to USSR if they were winning ? It is not like Soviets could threaten Pakistan

Actually They Could and The Last Thing We Would Want Is To Open A Second Front.They Were Practically Sitting On Top Of Our Heads At The Time

 

[Leviza]

Yaar Q tang kartay ho bar bar in indians ko...
they want to forget 65 and again and again , Pakistan put different versions of non-Pakistani accounts of how they lost it