Insulting armed forces should be legally banned in Pakistan

[Nilgiri]

Democracy isn't easy, @Safriz. You have to work at it; you have to work on it ALL THE TIME. Even after 70 years, you can cock up. Look at the loony tunes played by my other Indian 'friends' here. And on StratFor, for that matter. They talk democracy, and then they insist that their toxic cocktail of racism, Islamophobia and Pakistan-hating is the only nationalism allowed, and anybody who doesn't agree is anti-national.

There is more than one fool taking that line. Look at Sambit Patra in action; he's doing the exact same thing.

https://www.outlookindia.com/websit...campaign=campaign_name&utm_content=&utm_term=

The point? The connection with the subject of this thread?

1. You can't define nationalism. Your subjective opinion cannot be law.
2. If you can't define nationalism, you can't define anti-nationalism.
3. If you can't define anti-nationalism, you can't recognise an attack on an institution as an anti-national act.
4. If you can't recognise an attack on an institution as an anti-national act, you can't take into account any statement or news item or action as an insult to an institution.

Hehehehehehe, I just had to go looking for this again:

https://defence.pk/pdf/threads/indi...nds-woman-in-jail.596683/page-2#post-11097788

*poke* *poke*

 

[Joe Shearer]

Hehehehehehe, I just had to go looking for this again:

https://defence.pk/pdf/threads/indi...nds-woman-in-jail.596683/page-2#post-11097788

*poke* *poke*

Yup, you can take that vacant place on the place-holders' stand.

 

[Psychic]

This is the result of Gora slavery syndrome, we're still suffering from it and you can see it in some people even some intelligent mature people.

I laugh when someone says Pakistanis are stupid compared to Westerners and incapable of electing their leaders so dictators should be imposed. I have seen Westerners, they're so dumb idiots eating tide pods, fish tank cleaners, licking toilet seats, fighting over toilet papers instead of using water to wash their a$$es - i kid you not, there was a discussion on my forum about what to use since toilet papers are in short supply. I said just effing use water, we Muslims use it since forever. They would rather use newspapers and other dirty items than water.

The reason is we have very low worth of our people. The glitter of West is why those idiots look so smart to us but the fact is Western countries didn't have traitors as their leaders who destroyed their countries. Whereas just about every Muslim country had American puppets in power and they sent us to stone ages on purpose.

I don't know how someone tells me Westerners are smarter than us when their elected choices are Donald Trump and Boris Johnson. Yet their military doesn't suffer from a Messiah complex throwing elected governments to save the country.

Oh and they have stronger enemies than India so that excuse about Pakistan needing military dictators for security is nonsense.

Rulers are a reflection of the people themselves.

You talk about the glitters of West and then talk about their stupidest people without accounting for the fact that stupids exist everywhere. They are shining and we are not, yet they are stupid and we are bright according to you? If our leaders are traitors and thieves then that is our problem, since leaders come from us.

If the goras elected Boris or Trump, we have elected PPP for God knows how many times in Sindh. Goras do not have active insurgencies in their countries as of now whereas we've been fighting amongst ourselves in FATA, Karachi and Baluchistan for the last 15-20 years. If some stupid goras fight over toilet papers, please do inform me from where I can buy pure milk in any big city of world's fifth largest milk producer? When we are thieves and scammers, our leaders, both military and otherwise are also thieves and scammers.

And yes, on average, the goras are indeed smarter than us. What are our technological, social, political and administrative achievements if any compared to the West? None.

I laugh when someone says Pakistanis are stupid compared to Westerners and incapable of electing their leaders

(Clarification: above does not imply that I support military rule. Military, when they rule, act like a mafia themselves)

 

[Elizabeth Chatiyar Khan]

It should come under blashphmey law.

 

[Adonis]

No you can't.
Politicians rule the country and their every move is to be watched by public.
Military doesn't stand in elections and doesn't need to be watched by public.
Also politicians don't fight wars. Military does.
Politicians don't die every day defending the country, the military does.
You cannot force them soldiers to fight and lose lives for you after insulting them , and you need to be thankful to them for for doing so.

But you can insult or criticize politicians, they Will still want to rule you.

Plus your type of silly logic is not harped in any other country of the world.

I live in UK. Even The queen gets criticized everyday, the military doesn't.


How nice of you to give the Americans freedom of choice?
But is same thing happened in Pakistan , you would be ready to blow yourself up.

How innocent. Military in Pakistan doesn't stand in elections but make puppets and has been driving each and every institution, government of Pakistan since 1960s....can you deny it?....If you give examples of UK,US....also equate that how much interference their military has in day today affairs....Here in Pakistan, Military has the whole country at it's disposal....all media channel prime time talk-shows have one Military panellist giving opinion on from treatment of Covid-19, to distribution of funds to needy.....see the level on interference...it's no hidden secret and everyone know this in the world.
Besides, allowing criticising or not.....do you think people criticising military in Pakistan go on living for long?...

 

[volatile]

We are a diverse group of people (Pakistan) with each group seeking representation on law making institution i.e parliament .The insult to any one should be condemned in all forms not for armed forces but for politicians as well ,for civil servants , for govt officers of all forms and tax paying citizens as well. The argument or demand for banning is not correct IMO as in 73 years of this nation history armed forces have ruled ,looted directly for 35/40 years and in directly for rest .IMO if some one requires respect he should first give respect as well .It is high time the \generals should stop interfering in national politics and let people decide for themselves this way people will respect more and this argument and discussion will never happen

 

[Pandora]

Many thanks.



Perhaps we need (I am specifically thinking about our own condition in India) to review our legislation, to allow for the most current forms of expression, and of denigration. Social media is a blight in India, and has been consciously used as a political tool, wielded by an expert group of professional dedicated operators. You are still not so badly off in Pakistan, nowhere so badly off, in fact.

Social Media is a wild space and there are laws in Pakistan if someone resorts to threats or Harassment. The problem here is the lies that are peddled in our Electronic and paper media. Our journalist have turned themselves into sort of like a mafia. They spread lies 24/7 and when asked about proof suddenly they cant reveal identity of their informants. There should be a regulation where only verified news is to be aired rather than whatsapp gossips. If media is to be fourth pillar of our society then just like all other institutions there is a need of accountability. No one should get away after peddling lies on live TV.

 

[Joe Shearer]

Social Media is a wild space and there are laws in Pakistan if someone resorts to threats or Harassment. The problem here is the lies that are peddled in our Electronic and paper media. Our journalist have turned themselves into sort of like a mafia. They spread lies 24/7 and when asked about proof suddenly they cant reveal identity of their informants. There should be a regulation where only verified news is to be aired rather than whatsapp gossips. If media is to be fourth pillar of our society then just like all other institutions there is a need of accountability. No one should get away after peddling lies on live TV.

The other side of the problem is about the confidentiality of sources. If I include my daughter, I am associated with four straight generations of journalists, and there is nothing that they guard more jealously than their sources. You have mentioned the problem from the opposite point of view (with which I agree, btw). How do we deal with this? In the US journalists have gone to jail rather than revealing their sources.

 

[Pandora]

The other side of the problem is about the confidentiality of sources. If I include my daughter, I am associated with four straight generations of journalists, and there is nothing that they guard more jealously than their sources. You have mentioned the problem from the opposite point of view (with which I agree, btw). How do we deal with this? In the US journalists have gone to jail rather than revealing their sources.

There is such a thing as journalistic ethic in west but in subcontinent region there is hardly any thing ethical about journalists. Mostly there is no source or informant just lies, paid propaganda or gossips. Laws can be made to protect informants but journalistic accountability is a must. Any thing not governed by laws is open for corruption.

 

[Joe Shearer]

There is such a thing as journalistic ethic in west but in subcontinent region there is hardly any thing ethical about journalists. Mostly there is no source or informant just lies, paid propaganda or gossips. Laws can be made to protect informants but journalistic accountability is a must. Any thing not governed by laws is open for corruption.

The difficulty with making laws to protect informants is this:

Either we accept the word of the journalist that there is in fact a source somewhere, and desist from further questioning,
Or
We oblige her (or him) to disclose the source to a designated authority.

In the first case, when I tweet that the Indian Prime Minister suffers from bad breath, you have to take me at my word when I insist that this is the testimony of someone extremely 'close' to him; in the second case, after you haul me in for 'questioning', and after the 'questions' have healed, I may be obliged to disclose the name of the source to, say, a Second Class Municipal Magistrate. Quis custodiet ipsos custodes?

 

[AgNoStiC MuSliM]

Military in Pakistan doesn't stand in elections but make puppets and has been driving each and every institution, government of Pakistan since 1960s....can you deny it?

Yes - there is no evidence of the military rigging the elections of 2008 (won by the PPP) 2013 (won by the PMLN ) and 2018 (won by the PTI). The election results were largely in line with various opinion polls and independent election monitors reported no large scale irregularities that would have changed the outcome.

 

[Pandora]

The difficulty with making laws to protect informants is this:

Either we accept the word of the journalist that there is in fact a source somewhere, and desist from further questioning,
Or
We oblige her (or him) to disclose the source to a designated authority.

In the first case, when I tweet that the Indian Prime Minister suffers from bad breath, you have to take me at my word when I insist that this is the testimony of someone extremely 'close' to him; in the second case, after you haul me in for 'questioning', and after the 'questions' have healed, I may be obliged to disclose the name of the source to, say, a Second Class Municipal Magistrate. Quis custodiet ipsos custodes?

Well this is the case with any type of accountability so question is does this justify lack of laws and regulations for journalists?

 

[Joe Shearer]

Well this is the case with any type of accountability so question is does this justify lack of laws and regulations for journalists?

They are governed.

The laws of defamation apply to them, both in terms of slander and of libel.

 

[Pandora]

They are governed.

The laws of defamation apply to them, both in terms of slander and of libel.

Maybe you have those laws in India but nothing as such in Pakistan. Defamation law suites dont even get taken up by courts bcz everyone thinks its a joke to even file defamation.

 

[Joe Shearer]

Maybe you have those laws in India but nothing as such in Pakistan. Defamation law suites dont even get taken up by courts bcz everyone thinks its a joke to even file defamation.

One member whose views I'd really like to hear (maybe you can prod him?) is @saiyan0321. He is a treasure of information. I am sorry to hear about the status of these laws in Pakistan, but must sadly tell you that it isn't really very much better in India. We are all in the same boat.