Insulting armed forces should be legally banned in Pakistan

[Rusty]

Sure, keep doing it at the same level as you do against Pakistan army and get stripped of your Canadian citizenship. Guaranteed.

BAHAHAAHAHAA

that honestly made me laugh.
I defended the Taliban back in the late 90s early 2000s here in Canada.
I don't support them but I tried to give people context about them.
This was a time where Taliban were enemy number 1 of the west.

20 years later, still Canadian, still enjoying my free speech.

 

[Safriz]

Moral standards are a bit different, I agree. But you can’t be the judge of who is deserving of criticism and who can’t be by default. There will always be glaring exceptions in each case. Morally corrupt and bankrupt generals among an army with martyrs and public servants in its rank, and on the other end you’ll have corrupt and unscrupulous scoundrels in civilian institutions among honest workers and people who work equally hard in service of the nation. You can’t be the one to draw the line on which is the exalted group or persons, and which are fair game for criticism. And then comes the added challenge of what defines an insult worthy of criminal prosecution, and what’s questionable but allowed.

It’s much easier and better therefore, to have free speech. And in fact, you don’t really have democracy without it.

And I don’t believe that the army should be above criticism as a principle. It’s another matter that our history and current picture is full of things for which to rightly criticise the army about.



He can do it freely, he can that the CIA are a bunch of jackasses, and I in the UK can say that the Queen is an old hag and MI5 are a bunch of dopes. In democracies, this is legal.

People might react negatively to me saying these things but it cannot be outlawed.

I would like to hear an example of "Morally bankrupt general" and comparison of "Morally bankrupt politician" with that?
Apples and oranges.
Plus like I said , if you want to treat soldiers like another government servant then the soldiers have every right to behave as government servants behave in Pakistan.

What people like you with heads in clouds or some other grudge against military forget is that soldiers need high morale to fight and fight for an ideology not a job.

Take away the morale , take away the ideology and make them another government servant and we have Afghanistan army.

BAHAHAAHAHAA

that honestly made me laugh.
I defended the Taliban back in the late 90s early 2000s here in Canada.
I don't support them but I tried to give people context about them.
This was a time where Taliban were enemy number 1 of the west.

20 years later, still Canadian, still enjoying my free speech.

And I am spider man .
On internet anyone can claim to have done anything.
@Jungibaaz in UK people have lost citizenship for speaking against India and supporting Kashmir
Read this
https://www.thebureauinvestigates.c...am-nobody-a-former-british-citizen-speaks-out

 

[Rusty]

I would like to hear an example of "Morally bankrupt general" and comparison of "Morally bankrupt politician" with that?
Apples and oranges.
Plus like I said , if you want to treat soldiers like another government servant then the soldiers have every right to behave as government servants behave in Pakistan.

What people like you with heads in clouds or some other grudge against military forget is that soldiers need high morale to fight and fight for an ideology not a job.

Take away the morale , take away the ideology and make them another government servant and we have Afghanistan army.


And I am spider man .
On internet anyone can claim to have done anything.

well you did say I was American so that is true

 

[RealNapster]

If you can not criticised the armed forces, you won't be able to raise important points and issues and areas of concern that need improvements and all. See, PTM (laanat on them) criticised Armed forces for not removing land mines quickly. What armed forces did ? Allocated a second brigade to the task to speedup the process. See, this is development which was not possible without criticism. That's why you can not remove characteristic of criticism from a society as it won't survive won't improve won't work for long.

 

[Clutch]

If you can insult politicians then you can insult the Armed Forces as an institution.



The state didn't fire her. The school elected to do so. That's their choice.

Not in the West .

 

[Safriz]

If you can not criticised the armed forces, you won't be able to raise important points and issues and areas of concern that need improvements and all. See, PTM (laanat on them) criticised Armed forces for not removing land mines quickly. What armed forces did ? Allocated a second brigade to the task to speedup the process. See, this is development which was not possible without criticism. That's why you can not remove characteristic of criticism from a society as it won't survive won't improve won't work for long.

I like you sugar coated way of supporting PTM.
Zamung margaray , Akhpal kiliwal.


Removing mines planted by terrorists was never a job of military , but they are doing it as a favour and probably had done without PTM.
If you gonna risk your limbs to fix someone else's mess, you do need time to plan and think and acquire necessary gear.

 

[RealNapster]

Removing mines planted by terrorists was never a job of military

So army is supposed to provide us urea and soaps and cement ?

Removing mines from an area which is under conflict and being part of state machinery the army is a party to this conflict (War on Hasheesheen), so yes it is army duty to clear the area. Now, I don't know if you have been paying attention since years or was sleeping your head in your butthole, I criticised PTM the most here when plenty of my fellow Pakistanis were calling pashteen a bright wonderfully young man.

https://nation.com.pk/29-Mar-2018/dg-ispr-on-ptm

If you gonna risk your limbs to fix someone else's mess, you do need time to plan and think and acquire necessary gear

That someone else is a quarter of your army. 25% Pashtoon in army, so spare me the bullshit. The men cleaning the area were most probably Pashtoon.

 

[Pan-Islamic-Pakistan]

Pakistan should follow US model on this matter.

https://twitter.com/x/status/1257378702314307592

This is strange, as Americans insult their military and esp marines all the time.

 

[Trango Towers]

Pakistan should follow US model on this matter.

https://twitter.com/x/status/1257378702314307592

Insulting true...but make sure we can question them

 

[fisher1]

I agree but on one condition.

Like America, military should stop interfering in politics and stop doing coup detat and only stay at borders just like American army does.

Failing that, be prepared for same criticism that politicians face.

By the way, it's the generals people have a problem with who interfere with proper functioning of the country. The soldiers everyone respects regardless of which dictator is in season.

Removing mines planted by terrorists was never a job of military

Whose job it is? Or should little children be allowed to lose limbs and die horribly?

 

[PradoTLC]

Pakistan should follow US model on this matter.

https://twitter.com/x/status/1257378702314307592

Insulting institution : NO

Critiquing individual rogue and bad behaving officers : Yes

 

[Joe Shearer]

In Pakistan the young kids are ignorant and stupid at the same time. They don't know how to do constructive criticism.
It's libel and baseless allegations all the way.

You have a point, and I am most sympathetic to your point of view. Unfortunately for those of us who think that way, @Jungibaaz has put the matter in terms of unrelenting logic. There seems to be no alternative to accepting that we cannot jump this gulf in two steps.

You live in USA .
Try insulting CIA or US army for 9/11 and see what happens.

He's Canadian, actually; and they have a far less synthetic approach - I will not go so far as to say contrived, that would be very harsh - to patriotism, in spite of having been the picked troops of the entire Commonwealth in two world wars.

Ask @Nilgiri.

LOLOL.

Now why does this strike a familiar note? Perhaps I had better not say.

 

[Cuirassier]

Whoops - we got a radical here.

 

[Enigma SIG]

So army is supposed to provide us urea and soaps and cement ?

Armies have been about business since time immemorial.

https://hbr.org/2004/09/new-business-with-the-new-military

 

[Jungibaaz]

The high chair you and other commenters speaking from, doesn't apply to Pakistan as people here are not mature enough.
Also soldiers don't give up their citizenship by joining the army. So stop treating them as foreigner.
FYI insult without proof is libel and defamation and against the law.
Applies to soldiers too.

Are you saying that the average Brit is somehow more deserving of democratic self rule and free speech? Or that the average Pakistani is an idiot and too stupid? Let's just say I am perfectly familiar with the outside world, and I have compared the avg Pakistani with people elsewhere, I have faith in my countrymen.

Also... that part in bold is completely wrong. If I called someone an idiot, would it be libel and defamation until I produced an IQ test that confirmed it?

Please look up libel and defamation, you can have both free speech and also limits to free speech with libel laws. Their application is strict, requires a lot of evidence, and certainly doesn't apply to insults.

I would like to hear an example of "Morally bankrupt general" and comparison of "Morally bankrupt politician" with that?
Apples and oranges.

Why? Do you not believe there are examples of both? I'm sure I don't need to give you examples of civilian leaders, so I'll just give you the example of Ayub Khan, in addition to being a dictator, this morally bankrupt individual oversaw corruption while in office, his family wealth during the mid-60s was estimated by foreign journalists to be in the region of USD10-20m (a lot of money at the time), nepotism whereby he removed highly qualified CSS officers replacing them with cronies, family etc. His corruption also involved taking over or stakes in businesses, the British High Commission commented on how quickly his family developed their wealth in power. In addition, he also went on to oversee the maligning of Fatima Jinnah and the election rigging of the 1965 presidential election. He and his ilk are also credited by some for instigating the Karachi ethnic riots and murder of some opposition.

I'm sure some people on this forum have a rosy image of Ayub, doubtless he comes across as some sort of credible leader who oversaw a lot of progress in the 60s. The truth is altogether worse.

Plus like I said , if you want to treat soldiers like another government servant then the soldiers have every right to behave as government servants behave in Pakistan.

How about everyone behaves and acts professionally and morally at all times, civilian and army? And then we can treat them equally too, you said it yourself armymen are citizens too.

And I am spider man .
On internet anyone can claim to have done anything.
@Jungibaaz in UK people have lost citizenship for speaking against India and supporting Kashmir
Read this
https://www.thebureauinvestigates.c...am-nobody-a-former-british-citizen-speaks-out

From your own website, here's an example of who is being relieved of their citizenship:
https://www.thebureauinvestigates.c...overnment-cracks-down-on-uk-fighters-in-syria

Those laws are there basically to go after individuals against whom there is very credible evidence that their presence would be damaging, e.g returned fighters from Syria, or people who lied in order to gain citizenship but were later found out.