Insider rumors: Is Turkey returning to the F-35 project?

[Trango Towers]

Lol! Hurjet is not even in design stage. Even the engine specification has not been finalised. Now go and work to pay back your debt

Indian debt to imf....please Google...way more than pakistans and India is the lateness recipient of aid. Fully open defectors still talk sh1t

 

[Pandora]

Will Turkey get a knock off version, something lesser than what Israel has?

Turkey has never been a threat to Isreal. Erdogans political stance is just to fool public and satiate his Islamist supporter base otherwise they always had good relation. This is also the reason US has handed over same level of tech to Turkey compared to Israel.

 

[Bilal Khan (Quwa)]

Might be an attempt to kill the TFX and/or steer Turkey away from Pakistan (and indirectly China). Or maybe I'm thinking Pakistan is the center of the universe lol.

I'd say the US already has enough leverage on Turkey's economy (e.g., trade, investment, etc) to do that if it wanted. US defence exports are multi-layered packages. On the surface, you get the main weapon system, training, logistics package, etc. However, it also keeps the door open for the US to directly engage with your country's military leaders, carry out exercises or training programs, and other deeper links. I suspect the Pentagon told the White House that it can't afford to lose those links with Turkey.

The worst thing for the Pentagon is not being able to deal with people because they don't know who they are, how they think, what they want, etc. The French, for example, wanted to maintain a bit of a gap between themselves and the US. They collaborate for sure, but the US doesn't know France as well as it knows the UK or Italy.

This is the one reason why I think the US could once again sell major equipment to Pakistan. We saw the quiet transfer of TPS-77 MRRs, for example. I remember how in the early 2000s the US re-started its arms sales to Pakistan via the AN/TPS-77. It was a "oh whatever" thing back then, but 3-4 years later...Bell 214EPs, AH-1Fs, C-130s, P-3Cs, and then F-16s. Today, the US knows our generals pretty well, but in 10-15 years (at the current rate), they won't know who they're actually dealing with.

 

[KaiserX]

Turkey has hundreds of old F16s to replace. Of course they'd love to get F35s while continuing to focus on their indiginous fighter program similar to Paks approach of procuring off the shelf weapons while also developing weaponery inhouse.

I'd say the US already has enough leverage on Turkey's economy (e.g., trade, investment, etc) to do that if it wanted. US defence exports are multi-layered packages. On the surface, you get the main weapon system, training, logistics package, etc. However, it also keeps the door open for the US to directly engage with your country's military leaders, carry out exercises or training programs, and other deeper links. I suspect the Pentagon told the White House that it can't afford to lose those links with Turkey.

The worst thing for the Pentagon is not being able to deal with people because they don't know who they are, how they think, what they want, etc. The French, for example, wanted to maintain a bit of a gap between themselves and the US. They collaborate for sure, but the US doesn't know France as well as it knows the UK or Italy.

This is the one reason why I think the US could once again sell major equipment to Pakistan. We saw the quiet transfer of TPS-77 MRRs, for example. I remember how in the early 2000s the US re-started its arms sales to Pakistan via the AN/TPS-77. It was a "oh whatever" thing back then, but 3-4 years later...Bell 214EPs, AH-1Fs, C-130s, P-3Cs, and then F-16s. Today, the US knows our generals pretty well, but in 10-15 years (at the current rate), they won't know who they're actually dealing with.

Agreed but the Pakistani side should strategize and treat anything coming from the US as "Extra goodies" that will have 0 affect on our strategic planning. The days of putting all our eggs in 1 basket are long gone. In the future if PAF were to every receive the F16Vs they would be their to supplement the J10s and AZM program as a bonus but not required.

If we have this type of thinking it would be good to manage our expectations and will help both sides walk away with gains rather than feeling at a loss (which we have to admit both the US and pakistani side feel for one reason or another)

 

[Trango Towers]

Turkey has never been a threat to Isreal. Erdogans political stance is just to fool public and satiate his Islamist supporter base otherwise they always had good relation. This is also the reason US has handed over same level of tech to Turkey compared to Israel.

Stupids make noise when they don't have the ability to fight.

Remember the mother of all battles?

 

[CrazyZ]

USA is at risk of all key MENA players (GCC, Iran bloc, and Turkish bloc) tilting toward Eurasia. American think tanks are too dominated by anti-Islamic interests for the USA policy makers to make any pragmatic decisions so I don't see F-35 being sold to any Muslim country.

 

[dBSPL]

US companies have made an undeniable and posibly biggest contribution to the growth of the economic profitability of Turkish aviation companies. Boeing, Lockheed, Sikorsky, GE, PW; The share of business these aviation giants have provided to Turkey so far has exceeded billions and billions dollars. Just last year, a total of over 1 billion dollars was exported in aviation field to the US. American companies have settled investments in Turkey and there is no other foreign aviation-leading country that knows the bureaucratic structure here as well as they do.

Where does the problem start? When Turkey started to develop its own design and testing/qualification capabilities. Here, perhaps most of you may refuse, but if Turkish aerospace industry succeeds in maturing, it may be in a position to produce serious competition in world markets. Turkey represents a strong military power and soft power, it is not desirable for a country in this position to start producing technology, except when the interests are parallel.

Parallel to this, there are the side effects of the Turkish state's national interests and political perspectives starting to dispute with American foreign policy/mindset. Therefore, this political disagreement makes itself felt in industrial areas as well. Today, one of the most important reasons behind the acceleration of dozens of aviation projects and the transfer of billions of dollars of resources in these projects, was the CAATSA threat faced since 2020 and the embargo decisions that started earlier.

 

[dBSPL]

US informs Ankara that 6 of its seized Turkish AF, F-35's are currently still sitting in a hangar

https://twitter.com/x/status/1485905420934082562

 

[Trango Towers]

US informs Ankara that 6 of its seized Turkish AF, F-35's are currently still sitting in a hangar

https://twitter.com/x/status/1485905420934082562

Oh Russia Ukraine has played into Turkish hands ...

So if Turkey is back on the program what happens to the mighty Greeks Rafael...loool

They plot and Allah plots and he is the best of plotters

US companies have made an undeniable and posibly biggest contribution to the growth of the economic profitability of Turkish aviation companies. Boeing, Lockheed, Sikorsky, GE, PW; The share of business these aviation giants have provided to Turkey so far has exceeded billions and billions dollars. Just last year, a total of over 1 billion dollars was exported in aviation field to the US. American companies have settled investments in Turkey and there is no other foreign aviation-leading country that knows the bureaucratic structure here as well as they do.

Where does the problem start? When Turkey started to develop its own design and testing/qualification capabilities. Here, perhaps most of you may refuse, but if Turkish aerospace industry succeeds in maturing, it may be in a position to produce serious competition in world markets. Turkey represents a strong military power and soft power, it is not desirable for a country in this position to start producing technology, except when the interests are parallel.

Parallel to this, there are the side effects of the Turkish state's national interests and political perspectives starting to dispute with American foreign policy/mindset. Therefore, this political disagreement makes itself felt in industrial areas as well. Today, one of the most important reasons behind the acceleration of dozens of aviation projects and the transfer of billions of dollars of resources in these projects, was the CAATSA threat faced since 2020 and the embargo decisions that started earlier.

And the serious side effects are felt in the area of drones especially. Turkey really is no 1. All battle tested against the best Russian defences and won.
Americas best got hacked and taken down by Iran. Also they only have ever been used againt opposition that had no way to fight back

 

[dBSPL]

First, returning to the 2014 plan that Turkiye was European base for heavy maintenance of F35 jets and engines should be 'must'. Second, F-35 Integrated Pilot and Maintenance Training Center (ITC) and HAVELSAN training systems should continue its operation.. Turkish companies are still in the procurement plan, other important point is that the continuation of the contribution of the relevant companies to the project throughout the service life of the JSF project.

All after that, SSB may consider 16 F-35Bs for the navy, 40/48 F35A for the air force, and 4/6 for the OCU&evaluation squadrons. The total purchase cost will not exceed TR's offset share. 40-60 F35 acquisition, if implemented in conjunction with the F-16 B70/72 level modernization programs, will prevent the air force from experiencing major weakness until end of the 2030s. (This period will be years when the Turkish air force still depend on US logistics/licenses, even if it decreases gradually. Therefore, these numbers may increase or decrease depending on the realpolitik conditions, and other stop-gap solutions may be introduced.) The period after 2035 will be the closing of the import period for Turkish aviation combat elements.