Inside the OBL Raid

[VCheng]

“For God and country—Geronimo, Geronimo, Geronimo.”

And some people have an issue with the Pakistan Army's 'motto' (of all the trivial things to make an issue out of) why?

The reported new details also validate Pakistan's intelligence support that led to OBL being tracked down, though the Pakistan bashers will no doubt find some convoluted and nonsensical argument to somehow still paint the ISI and PA as being 'complicit' in sheltering OBL.

A motto is a brief statement expressing a guiding principle, goal, or ideal, whereas that utterance is one soldier expressing his private belief in the heat of battle.

Is there not a world of difference between these two?

 

[AgNoStiC MuSliM]

A motto is a brief statement expressing a guiding principle, goal, or ideal, whereas that utterance is one soldier expressing his private belief in the heat of battle.

Is there not a world of difference between these two?

You mean like 'one nation UNDER GOD'?

'Faith, piety and struggle against evil in the path of God'?

What is wrong with that?

 

[VCheng]

You mean like 'one nation UNDER GOD'?

'Faith, piety and struggle against evil in the path of God'?

What is wrong with that?

Fair points, but "one nation under god" is part of the Oath of Allegiance, and even there, that part has been dropped in several places after lively debate.

Compare motto for motto (or is it apples to apples), both for armies:

"Faith, piety and struggle against evil in the path of God"

OR

"This, we'll defend".

 

[AgNoStiC MuSliM]

Fair points, but "one nation under god" is part of the Oath of Allegiance, and even there, that part has been dropped in several places after lively debate.

Sure, keep up 'lively debate' all you want. I would wager that any initiative in the US today to get rid of 'Under God' would likely fail, but it should be debated.

Compare motto for motto (or is it apples to apples), both for armies:

"Faith, piety and struggle against evil in the path of God"

OR

"This, we'll defend".

Sure, what's wrong with the Pakistan Army motto in comparison?

Longer than the US Army one?

 

[VCheng]

......................
Sure, what's wrong with the Pakistan Army motto in comparison?

Longer than the US Army one?

Yes, that too.

 

[AgNoStiC MuSliM]

Yes, that too.

I think the PA motto is fine as is for now - it is reflective of the religiously conservative roots of Pakistani society, and IMO is an excellent motto given Pakistan's current war against religious extremism.

The last thing we want is for the religious extremists to paint the Army as a 'secular Army' pursuing a 'secular Western agenda against Islam' (which they are trying to do in any case, but would certainly be more successful in if the current motto ends up being discarded).

Once this war is under control, maybe we can revisit the motto.

 

[VCheng]

I think the PA motto is fine as is for now - it is reflective of the religiously conservative roots of Pakistani society, and IMO is an excellent motto given Pakistan's current war against religious extremism.

The last thing we want is for the religious extremists to paint the Army as a 'secular Army' pursuing a 'secular Western agenda against Islam'.

Once this war is under control, maybe we can revisit the motto.

Honestly, that is a fair assessment that I can accept, and indeed support.

 

[AgNoStiC MuSliM]

Honestly, that is a fair assessment that I can accept, and indeed support.

Since when did we start agreeing so much?

On two, maybe three threads now?

Must be the lull before the storm ....

 

[VCheng]

Since when did we start agreeing so much?

On two, maybe three threads now?

Must be the lull before the storm ....

Nah, I think we are just getting to know each other better.

 

[Xeric]

Once this war is under control, maybe we can revisit the motto.

Aint happening.

 

[VCheng]

..........................
Once this war is under control, maybe we can revisit the motto.

Aint happening.

or may be not, but outright dismissal of possibilities is never good without weighing pros and cons carefully.

 

[AgNoStiC MuSliM]

Aint happening.

Xeric, I personally don't have any issue with the motto.

But at the same time, as a society and nation there is nothing wrong with discussing changes to 'our society, nation and institutions'.

In the scheme of things the 'motto' is a trivial thing to obsess about - there are plenty of more serious issues in the constitution and in Pakistan's laws that need to be addressed first.

 

[VCheng]

Xeric, I personally don't have any issue with the motto.

But at the same time, as a society and nation there is nothing wrong with discussing changes to 'our society, nation and institutions'.

In the scheme of things the 'motto' is a trivial thing to obsess about - there are plenty of more serious issues in the constitution and in Pakistan's laws that need to be addressed first.

Hallelujah! There you go again, saying things that I can AGREE with!

 

[Luftwaffe]

Fair points, but "one nation under god" is part of the Oath of Allegiance, and even there, that part has been dropped in several places after lively debate.

Compare motto for motto (or is it apples to apples), both for armies:

"Faith, piety and struggle against evil in the path of God"

OR

"This, we'll defend".

A Closer look "We'll defend" has essentially all the contents of "Faith, piety and struggle against evil in the path of God"

 

[VCheng]

A Closer look "We'll defend" has essentially all the contents of "Faith, piety and struggle against evil in the path of God"

Could you please explain that a bit more as to how that could be so?