Insas rifles may be on its way out

[AUSTERLITZ]

Another important question is should we consider a bullpup design?

 

[acetophenol]

INSAS was forced upon the Army.Most of the people here think that the Army is against indigenous products but thats not true.

INSAS is very unreliable and puts the life of soldiers at risk.Not even the J&K SOG use INSAS forget about RR and other such units.

It performed pathetically in Kargil.

The Army was so upset that it decided that no INSAS product would be a part of F-INSAS.



Its not a large size for a assault rifle.

Why doesnt this classic disadvantage of 5.56 show up in Tavor?

*True that insas performed badly in kargil which was rectified soon. Infact,as per a retired Anti Aircraft Gunman who served IA during kargil war in the forward area said that many infantrymen were killed due to flash from inaccurate,high recoil SLR during night. Many other accounts also say the same. SLR replacement was badly needed and thus Insas was pushed in ,which infact saved many lives .several other rifles were offered to IA as a replacement for SLR including chinese type 56.


*INSAS Products - the INSAS SC 5.56MM steel core ammo,Minsas PDW,Amogh carbine(not sure) are part of F-INSAS.

*I didn't say that its a long assault rifle. Its long for the special forces use,due to which tavour bullpup is used.
5.56mm has disadvantage in counterterrorist operations due to which RRs and othe counter terrorist guys prefer Aks over tavour or insas.

*INSAS has passed through numerous excercises in India and foreign.

 

[acetophenol]

I'm sleepy

 

[BlueDot_in_Space]

On the pretext of MUlti caliber Weapon, the great IA generals silently kill the indigenous weapon. Lets see what multi caliber weapon they induct from faren.

 

[Splurgenxs]

The Tavor is not that different in length to the INSAS so the size issue is NOT why all SOFs in India have shown the INSAS the door. But I'll concede, to an extent, the INSAS is not widely used in JK because of the 5.56mm-the IA prefers the 7.62 to put down terrorists. However it is interesting to not that Indian SOFs operating in CT ops still use their Tavors which use the 5.56mm so this line of reasoning isn't definitive.

The first thing tht comes to my lay mind,

5.56 is a hit and tumble characteristic and low muzzle velocity ,essentially a maiming bullet. Terrorists work devoid of a support element in there operations hence the functionality is useless.

5.56 doesn't penetrate brick and cement,urban scenarios are predominantly made up of shanty brick and mortar settlements tht are good cover fr smaller caliber ammunition.

Now coming to the Use of Tavor.

Tavor is a very accurate low profile weapon tht im sure are only used by elite forces due to there sharpshooting prowess and close counter training ie inside rooms.

As far as the Aks are concerned what i see predominantly, are stockless,iron sighted arms tht are not much use except fr laying suppression and/or spamming in case it hits due to its cover penetrating feature.

 

[COLDHEARTED AVIATOR]

*True that insas performed badly in kargil which was rectified soon. Infact,as per a retired Anti Aircraft Gunman who served IA during kargil war in the forward area said that many infantrymen were killed due to flash from inaccurate,high recoil SLR during night. Many other accounts also say the same. SLR replacement was badly needed and thus Insas was pushed in ,which infact saved many lives .several other rifles were offered to IA as a replacement for SLR including chinese type 56.

Never heard this story before.

5.56mm has disadvantage in counterterrorist operations due to which RRs and othe counter terrorist guys prefer Aks over tavour or insas.

You are completely wrong.It is an error based on the lack of knowedge about the subject which hopefully the IA soldiers you met would educate you on when you meet them the next time.

*INSAS has passed through numerous excercises in India and foreign.

Great...show me 1 pic of Oman Army with Insas.Even the Nepali Army were not satisfied with it.

 

[Water Car Engineer]

What a f'n waste. INSAS is about to be India's HAL Marut of small arms.

Make something and let OFB and this time give the private sector a chance to manufacture a rifle..

 

[acetophenol]

Never heard this story before.





You are completely wrong.It is an error based on the lack of knowedge about the subject which hopefully the IA soldiers you met would educate you on when you meet them the next time.



Great...show me 1 pic of Oman Army with Insas.Even the Nepali Army were not satisfied with it.

*thats true. I have fired the slr,its literally a hand cannon. Its brutally powerfull,but inaccurate,heavy and has high recoil. There were incidents of inexperienced NCC cadets getting dislocated shoulders due improper holding of SLR during firing. Compared to that Insas,is light,accurate,less noisy,flashless and obviously less powerful.
* just the read some other posts above mine. The AK rounds have more penetration power and has more energy in it.there fore it is ideal in Counter Terror ops as it will kill/immobilize terrorists in one shot. Also,Ak is not for accurate firing but for "spraying bullets" over an area. Compared to AK bullets,the 5.56mm are paper clips in terms of penetration power. Howereve 5.56mm INSAS Round are know to have steel core capable of piercing level 3 bpjs. But it still lacks the stopping power of AK.So,if a terrorist gets hit by 5.56 mm,he will be less in pain and likely to continue in fight,but 7.62 mm will unleash greater energy which cause agonizing pain immobilizing him.
* what i meant is that,INSAS has been used by IA in various wargames in India and in Foreign.for ex: yudh abhyas series with usa,Indra series with russia. Indian Army's insas and dragunov svd was praised for their performance in Alaska.

 

[Abingdonboy]

*thats true. I have fired the slr,its literally a hand cannon. Its brutally powerfull,but inaccurate,heavy and has high recoil. There were incidents of inexperienced NCC cadets getting dislocated shoulders due improper holding of SLR during firing. Compared to that Insas,is light,accurate,less noisy,flashless and obviously less powerful.
* just the read some other posts above mine. The AK rounds have more penetration power and has more energy in it.there fore it is ideal in Counter Terror ops as it will kill/immobilize terrorists in one shot. Also,Ak is not for accurate firing but for "spraying bullets" over an area. Compared to AK bullets,the 5.56mm are paper clips in terms of penetration power. Howereve 5.56mm INSAS Round are know to have steel core capable of piercing level 3 bpjs. But it still lacks the stopping power of AK.So,if a terrorist gets hit by 5.56 mm,he will be less in pain and likely to continue in fight,but 7.62 mm will unleash greater energy which cause agonizing pain immobilizing him.
* what i meant is that,INSAS has been used by IA in various wargames in India and in Foreign.for ex: yudh abhyas series with usa,Indra series with russia. Indian Army's insas and dragunov svd was praised for their performance in Alaska.

I had read a US soldier's blog back in '07 who had exercised with the IA and whilst he head praised the IA men he was damning of the INSAS- he called it a PoS. And he's 100% right.

 

[COLDHEARTED AVIATOR]

*thats true. I have fired the slr,its literally a hand cannon. Its brutally powerfull,but inaccurate,heavy and has high recoil. There were incidents of inexperienced NCC cadets getting dislocated shoulders due improper holding of SLR during firing. Compared to that Insas,is light,accurate,less noisy,flashless and obviously less powerful.
* just the read some other posts above mine. The AK rounds have more penetration power and has more energy in it.there fore it is ideal in Counter Terror ops as it will kill/immobilize terrorists in one shot. Also,Ak is not for accurate firing but for "spraying bullets" over an area. Compared to AK bullets,the 5.56mm are paper clips in terms of penetration power. Howereve 5.56mm INSAS Round are know to have steel core capable of piercing level 3 bpjs. But it still lacks the stopping power of AK.So,if a terrorist gets hit by 5.56 mm,he will be less in pain and likely to continue in fight,but 7.62 mm will unleash greater energy which cause agonizing pain immobilizing him.
* what i meant is that,INSAS has been used by IA in various wargames in India and in Foreign.for ex: yudh abhyas series with usa,Indra series with russia. Indian Army's insas and dragunov svd was praised for their performance in Alaska.

SLR is more accurate and has more hitting pwer than INSAS otherwise it would have never been used as a Sniper rifle.

 

[acetophenol]

SLR is more accurate and has more hitting pwer than INSAS otherwise it would have never been used as a Sniper rifle.

I believe the gun in the pic not slr but is an IMI Galil 7.62mm sniper rifle used by paras.
Even if its a Slr,it won't be a sniper rifle,but a marksmen rifle.

By the Way INSAS is widely used as marksman rifle with a variety of scopes including thermal,day,night etc.
Slr is more powerful than Insas,no doubt!

I had read a US soldier's blog back in '07 who had exercised with the IA and whilst he head praised the IA men he was damning of the INSAS- he called it a PoS. And he's 100% right.

Can you post that blog? Why do you say that he's 100% right?

 

[COLDHEARTED AVIATOR]

I believe the gun in the pic not slr but is an IMI Galil 7.62mm sniper rifle used by paras.

And you say you have fired a SLR?

 

[acetophenol]

And you say you have fired a SLR?

Yes,i have fired a slr.

 

[COLDHEARTED AVIATOR]

Yes,i have fired a slr.

and you failed to reconise one mate.

 

[Omega007]

Thats BS!


No offence intended.

Actually you are the biggest BS here mate.

No offence intended.