INS Vikrant, being built by Cochin Shipyard, to be ready by 2018:Pics

[Manindra]

If IN do these work then what would CSL do ?
If Russia denied us steel then what would IN do ?, Present their some ship to melt it & use in IAC-1, P-28 & P-15A ?


Then IN should mention it in their contract clause.



Russ
Yes, just like they take a retired cruiser from Russia, ncefethen signed contract for upgrade for $800 million which balloons $2.3 billion & without self defence system.


You didn't answer this question.

Insurer don't take risk of delay in supply chain.




Where is your proof?




Which self defence system would cost like that. IN would be fool then deploy such horrible expensive system.



Neither I want but please stop spreading disinformation.
If you have query in naval area then consult @Capt.Popeye or @Penguin

[/QUOTE]


I do not entertain Uncouth Goofy Charlies.......
It was a revelation to read that GIC can make Marine Gear Boxes for Aircraft Carriers to replace damaged ones.
So is ELECON in the Insurance business now?
Very illuminating..... I suggest that you do not waste your time any further on this. Maybe Thambi Subra-Man is the only person who can deal with him.[/QUOTE]
He says when Marine Gear Boxes got damaged in accident then insurer should also compense the CSL for their idle production work loss

 

[banvanaxl]

"our" is all those reading this thread who has to suffer your ignorance.

You are required to defend your stupidity, not me.

Dude will all due respect @Koovie has just quoted a universally known fact. Inadequate infrastructure leads to cost escalation for projects being affected by that infrastructure.

Now that can be as tangible as power supply to as intangible and convoluted as inadequate work force training at one of the subsystems factories a few thousand kilometers away.

Bottom-line is infrastructure good or bad is directly proportional to the cost rationalization of a project.

Further reading so that you know more before you come with your counter points.
http://ec.europa.eu/regional_policy/sources/docgener/evaluation/pdf/5_full_en.pdf

Cheers

 

[Capt.Popeye]

He says when Marine Gear Boxes got damaged in accident then insurer should also compense the CSL for their idle production work loss

That depends on the Insurance Policy that covered the Eqpt.
But that does not change the fact that there is no Gear Box...... till a replacement is made; which in turn sends everything down-stream in the process for a toss.
Insurance can do only so much.... and have you heard of a FM Clause in Insurance Policies?
Charlie has'nt .... just as he is unfamiliar with Manufacturing Contracts. But never mind....

One sees, hears and learns ...... about ignorance all the time, so its best to leave it be.

 

[Manindra]

I do not entertain Uncouth Goofy Charlies.......
It was a revelation to read that GIC can make Marine Gear Boxes for Aircraft Carriers to replace damaged ones.
So is ELECON in the Insurance business now?
Very illuminating..... I suggest that you do not waste your time any further on this. Maybe Thambi Subra-Man is the only person who can deal with him.

He says when Marine Gear Boxes got damaged in accident then insurer should also compense the CSL for their idle production work loss [/QUOTE]


That depends on the Insurance Policy that covered the Eqpt.
But that does not change the fact that there is no Gear Box...... till a replacement is made; which in turn sends everything down-stream in the process for a toss.
Insurance can do only so much.... and have you heard of a FM Clause in Insurance Policies?
Charlie has'nt .... just as he is unfamiliar with Manufacturing Contracts. But never mind....

One sees, hears and learns ...... about ignorance all the time, so its best to leave it be.[/QUOTE]
Mostly Private Insurers denied claim with term & conditions loopholes & public insurers would take such time that claim amount interest would be more than primary amount

 

[uparyupari]

If IN do these work then what would CSL do ?
If Russia denied us steel then what would IN do ?, Present their some ship to melt it & use in IAC-1, P-28 & P-15A ?

Who said IN should do the work ? Do you understand english ? or is this some pathetic strawman ?

What part of Contract Review do you not understand ? What part of due diligence do you not understand ? What part of Supply Chain and vendor management and Risk mitigation do you not understand ?

By the look of it you do not understand Anything. Yet you insist on talking about it.

Then IN should mention it in their contract clause.

Tell that to the IN. Not me.

Russ
Yes, just like they take a retired cruiser from Russia, ncefethen signed contract for upgrade for $800 million which balloons $2.3 billion & without self defence system.

Still better than the Vikram which is not only delayed but also has an price rise of 3000%.

You didn't answer this question.
Insurer don't take risk of delay in supply chain.

Rubbish. Heard of Transport insurance ?

Supply chain insurance for large and multinational corporations | Zurich Insurance

Where is your proof?

You are the one who made the claim. Where is your proof ?

Which self defence system would cost like that. IN would be fool then deploy such horrible expensive system.

The Entire barak 1 SYSTEM costs 24 milion $.

Neither I want but please stop spreading disinformation.
If you have query in naval area then consult @Capt.Popeye or @Penguin

Stop sticking your head in the sand.

You are the one with queries. Not me. You are free to consult them.

 

[Capt.Popeye]

Mostly Private Insurers denied claim with term & conditions loopholes & public insurers would take such time that claim amount interest would be more than primary amount

No, any Insurer is bound by the Term Clauses of the Original Policy; even though they will inevitably try to wriggle out of the liability to pay-out to the extent that they can!
In this instance; the Policy would cover the transportation Contract between the Vendor/manufacturer and the Transporter. The question is what were the terms of the policy and what was the nature of the Risk Cover involved?
The Manufacturing Contract is a different document with its own terms and conditions. What are the nature of those, is the next question?

Without knowing any of that; it is absurd to to fire off on all cylinders as ignorant, arrogant dilletantes are prone to. But that is the ugly reality.

Most amusing was the argument that Insurance is the panacea for all such problems. Remember that the Gear-Box had to be either repaired or re-manufactured; with the 'lead-time' that attends such matters.

Also amusing is the notion that the Buyer/End-User can control the manufacturing process. It is not so, it can only monitor the process. As a Member of an Oversight Team in a ship-yard, I have only the right to witness the process and report to the principals, which is circumscribed again by contractual terms.

So just get that into context, but do not get involved in slanging it out with ignorant and boorish Charleys.

 

[Abingdonboy]

@Abingdonboy
how does difference in Naval ideologies impacts or influences deisgn of ACC . can you throw light on this with some examples ?

The INS Vikramditya was originally the Admiral Gorshkov, a Kiev Class Carrier. The Kiev class carriers were combinations of aircraft carrier and cruiser (the Soviet navy's designation was heavy aviation cruiser), originally the Gorshkov carried AA, ASuW and ASW armaments alongside its aviation compliment (Yak-36) and these missiles took up much of the foredeck:

As such the Kiev class were intended to carry much of the firepower that one would typically find in the escorts of a CBG in Western, Indian and now Russian navies. As part of the refurbishment for India the Gorshkov had all these armaments removed to make way for a larger flight deck so as to become an aircraft carrier solely:

However that oversized Island you see on the Vikramditya remains and its design is because of the ships original design (it was originally meant for missile control). These days Aircraft Carriers have a far more refined design that is optimised for air operations:

Sorry for the delay @Indo-guy

 

[uparyupari]

Dude will all due respect @Koovie has just quoted a universally known fact. Inadequate infrastructure leads to cost escalation for projects being affected by that infrastructure.

Now that can be as tangible as power supply to as intangible and convoluted as inadequate work force training at one of the subsystems factories a few thousand kilometers away.

Bottom-line is infrastructure good or bad is directly proportional to the cost rationalization of a project.

Further reading so that you know more before you come with your counter points.
http://ec.europa.eu/regional_policy/sources/docgener/evaluation/pdf/5_full_en.pdf
Cheers

Do you even realize what kind of Nonsense that is ?

Corruption is ALSO a universally known fact that leads to cost escalation for projects.

Stupidity is ALSO a universally known fact that leads to cost escalation for projects.

Ignorance is ALSO a universally known fact that leads to cost escalation for projects.

Laziness is ALSO a universally known fact that leads to cost escalation for projects.

That is why such generic "gyaan" is nothing but Hubris.

 

[Manindra]

Who said IN should do the work ? Do you understand english ? or is this some pathetic strawman ?

What part of Contract Review do you not understand ? What part of due diligence do you not understand ? What part of Supply Chain and vendor management and Risk mitigation do you not understand ?

By the look of it you do not understand Anything. Yet you insist on talking about it.

Tell me what would you did if you are the CEO of CSL or director of NDB when you have no supplier of steel?

Tell that to the IN. Not me.

Thats I called IN is fool

Still better than the Vikram which is not only delayed but also has an price rise of 3000%.

Lol, first 1500 now 3000%
You should also check Vikramaditya's price boom from $ 800 million to $ 2.3 billion even without self defence for 25+ year old hull with huge delay.

Rubbish. Heard of Transport insurance ?

Supply chain insurance for large and multinational corporations | Zurich Insurance

You should consult them with this particular subject then tell me their answer.

You are the one who made the claim. Where is your proof ?

You are ranting this matter than proof should be submitted by you

The Entire barak 1 SYSTEM costs 24 milion $.

You claim only $ 10 million first
Its only 1 launcher cost but Vikramaditya need minimum two launcher set & you would puchase extra missile also.
You would also need 6 AK630 CIWS & ammunition.
Both system with spare bullets & missiles cost more than $ 200 million minimum.

Stop sticking your head in the sand.

You are the one with queries. Not me. You are free to consult them.

Defence matter is not your forte , you should be busy some chit chat thread.

And now rest this case , you are hard nut to crack for me

No, any Insurer is bound by the Term Clauses of the Original Policy; even though they will inevitably try to wriggle out of the liability to pay-out to the extent that they can!
In this instance; the Policy would cover the transportation Contract between the Vendor/manufacturer and the Transporter. The question is what were the terms of the policy and what was the nature of the Risk Cover involved?
The Manufacturing Contract is a different document with its own terms and conditions. What are the nature of those, is the next question?

Without knowing any of that; it is absurd to to fire off on all cylinders as ignorant, arrogant dilletantes are prone to. But that is the ugly reality.

Most amusing was the argument that Insurance is the panacea for all such problems. Remember that the Gear-Box had to be either repaired or re-manufactured; with the 'lead-time' that attends such matters.

Also amusing is the notion that the Buyer/End-User can control the manufacturing process. It is not so, it can only monitor the process. As a Member of an Oversight Team in a ship-yard, I have only the right to witness the process and report to the principals, which is circumscribed again by contractual terms.

So just get that into context, but do not get involved in slanging it out with ignorant and boorish Charleys.

Which I post in previous post that you can't just repair or manufacture these heavy gearboxes shortly but some people are not come for discussion , they are pre convinced & discussed the matter with ego & don't want do got destroyed by accepting right things.

 

[uparyupari]

Tell me what would you did if you are the CEO of CSL or director of NDB when you have no supplier of steel?

1. I will not sign the contract still I have confirmed the vendor.
2. Make provision in the contract to account for missing steel vendor.
3. Delay signing the contract till I have a confirmed source and a viable plan to delivery on the contract.
4. Make the shortage of steel know upfront to the Buyer and make alternative provisions.

Lol, first 1500 now 3000%
You should also check Vikramaditya's price boom from $ 800 million to $ 2.3 billion even without self defence for 25+ year old hull with huge delay.

I was being Kind to IN in PDF. The initial cost was 500 million $, the revised price is 3.3 billion %. How many times is that ? It is 6600 %

Happy ?

You should consult them with this particular subject then tell me their answer.

No need, since I do this in real life and I AM telling you. Only you are too blind to see it or hear it.

You are ranting this matter than proof should be submitted by you

LOL. So you admit that your foolish claims of Vikrant being better than Vicki regarding acceleration and range was pur hubris

You claim only $ 10 million first
Its only 1 launcher cost but Vikramaditya need minimum two launcher set & you would puchase extra missile also.
You would also need 6 AK630 CIWS & ammunition.
Both system with spare bullets & missiles cost more than $ 200 million minimum.

Radar and systems will already be installed Only the missiles will be missing. That will not cost more than 10 million $.

AK360 are built in India so will not cost more than a million $. In any case the barak on Viki is being supplied by the decommissioned ship so its actually FREE.

Defence matter is not your forte , you should be busy some chit chat thread.

And now rest this case , you are hard nut to crack for me

LOL. That is funny considering I work in the Defence sector and you don't

You are not match for me, which is why I asked you to quite, but you just could not. could you ?

 

[banvanaxl]

Do you even realize what kind of Nonsense that is ?

Corruption is ALSO a universally known fact that leads to cost escalation for projects.

Stupidity is ALSO a universally known fact that leads to cost escalation for projects.

Ignorance is ALSO a universally known fact that leads to cost escalation for projects.

Laziness is ALSO a universally known fact that leads to cost escalation for projects.

That is why such generic "gyaan" is nothing but Hubris.

Exactly its "Generic Gyaan" ie. no point agruing about it because it is an ACCEPTED fact. Wonder why you would have a bone to pick with @Koovie about something as 'Generic" as this.

 

[Manindra]

1. I will not sign the contract still I have confirmed the vendor.
2. Make provision in the contract to account for missing steel vendor.
3. Delay signing the contract till I have a confirmed source and a viable plan to delivery on the contract.
4. Make the shortage of steel know upfront to the Buyer and make alternative provisions.

So,
1. Its a not solution but a more problem
2. It would not solve your problem
3. as answered by my 1. no. response
4. Which is go to DRDO-SAIL & pay development charge & wait for being successfull

I was being Kind to IN in PDF. The initial cost was 500 million $, the revised price is 3.3 billion %. How many times is that ? It is 6600 %

Happy ?

A descent Frigate would cost more than $ 500 million our own Shivalik class frigate is near $ 1 billion per ship.
NDB & CSL underestimate cost that when you have to import engine , create whole new infrastructure & supply base including buying technology from abroad.
$ 2 billion should be target but what can be done to the past.

No need, since I do this in real life and I AM telling you. Only you are too blind to see it or hear it.



LOL. So you admit that your foolish claims of Vikrant being better than Vicki regarding acceleration and range was pur hubris

Being abroad GE LM2500 GT Propulsion

Radar and systems will already be installed Only the missiles will be missing. That will not cost more than 10 million $.

AK360 are built in India so will not cost more than a million $. In any case the barak on Viki is being supplied by the decommissioned ship so its actually FREE.

Where do you got $ 10 million figure ?
When current version 6 AK 630 cost you $ 7 million in India
What can you do with more stupid than above comment.
You didn't pay price of that decommissioned vessel self defence system.
If Vikramaditya would come with their self defence suite then it would go to some brand new vessel.
Oh I didn't add self defence fitting charge in Vikramaditya's bill

LOL. That is funny considering I work in the Defence sector and you don't

Funny , previously you declared you are professional event organizer , may be you are professional liar

You are not match for me, which is why I asked you to quite, but you just could not. could you ?

No , how can I match your Ignorance my Professional event organizer err.... Defence contractor or professional liar

Who supplies the engines for IAC-1?

Amrika

 

[HariPrasad]

Now that will be some serious firepower!

But we need better aircraft onboard rather than Mig-29K. IN should go for Rafale and LCA!

Mig 29 k is an *** kicker and defeat any other aircraft in dog fight. Upgraded Mig 29 K are bloody hell of headache for our enemy.

 

[uparyupari]

Exactly its "Generic Gyaan" ie. no point agruing about it because it is an ACCEPTED fact. Wonder why you would have a bone to pick with @Koovie about something as 'Generic" as this.

I care for the facts, not posters.

So,
1. Its a not solution but a more problem
2. It would not solve your problem
3. as answered by my 1. no. response
4. Which is go to DRDO-SAIL & pay development charge & wait for being successfull

What is your point ? Do you have one ?

Being abroad GE LM2

What about GE LM2 ? How does it prove better acceleration or range ?

Where do you got $ 10 million figure ?
When current version 6 AK 630 cost you $ 7 million in India
What can you do with more stupid than above comment.
You didn't pay price of that decommissioned vessel self defence system.
If Vikramaditya would come with their self defence suite then it would go to some brand new vessel.
Oh I didn't add self defence fitting charge in Vikramaditya's bill

Again, what is your point ?

Funny , previously you declared you are professional event organizer , may be you are professional liar

LOL. I said I am a Program Manager, not a event organizer

You think "program" is what you see on TV or on stage ?

No , how can I match your Ignorance my Professional event organizer err.... Defence contractor or professional liar
Amrika

LOL. Why do you insist on making a fool of yourself ?

 

[Kinetic]

Mig 29 k is an *** kicker and defeat any other aircraft in dog fight. Upgraded Mig 29 K are bloody hell of headache for our enemy.

We should not think about dog fight as a priority, focus should be Look first, Shoot first now on.