INS Kolkata, navy’s most powerful warship, to be delivered next month

[Gessler]

More versatile yes, but more capable? That depends on what you are talking about. Because in terms of air-defence, the Type 45 wins hands down and is much more capable than the Kolkata class.

For the interim, yes. But I don't think that equation will hold after Kolk receives the Barak-VIII. Notwithstanding the
aspect the quad-array MF-STAR AESA is more latest & most probably more capable than the SAMPSON radar.

Barak 1 and Barak 8 are not as advanced as the Aster 15 and 30!

What makes Aster-15/30 better than Barak-8 ?

Barak is newer & potentially uses the more latest software & algorithms. Plus if you see the details
regarding the type of guidance tech used, you'll see Barak-8 has a more sophisticated multi-spectral
guidance system than Aster-series which uses older/traditional methods.

Barak-1 is just a CIWS missile so leave that out...even though a combined Barak-1/8 package offers the
Kolk a more redundant defence mechanism than Daring, who's Aster missiles (15/30) are both basically the
same type and follow the same methods of interception.

Anyway leave out Barak-1.

One thing that catches my eyes reading this is the ship has anti-submarine capability at up to 100 km?

Btw, why doesn't India pack this ship with the S-300PMU2? Its missile is 200 km while the Barak is only 70-120 km?

The S-300 and it's descendants (S-400 & the Chinese versions) were mainly developed with the intention of
taking out high-flying missiles, bombers or strike aircraft, and ABM role to an extent. Nowadays most missiles
and even aircraft come in low (sea-skimming in case of missiles), where they cannot usually be detected
until they get very close. Usually about 40-60km.

At this range and extremely low altitudes, large & heavy missiles like the S-300 are all but unnecessary. Smaller, lighter missiles
can be more capable at maneuvering & intercepting targets like these. This is not to say that the Barak-8 is
not capable of hitting high-altitude targets or doing a bit of ABM, depending on type of incoming missile.

 

[ViXuyen]

Beautiful ship

 

[Ceonwulf]

For the interim, yes. But I don't think that equation will hold after Kolk receives the Barak-VIII. Notwithstanding the
aspect the quad-array MF-STAR AESA is more latest & most probably more capable than the SAMPSON radar.

What makes Aster-15/30 better than Barak-8 ?

Barak is newer & potentially uses the more latest software & algorithms. Plus if you see the details
regarding the type of guidance tech used, you'll see Barak-8 has a more sophisticated multi-spectral
guidance system than Aster-series which uses older/traditional methods.

Barak-1 is just a CIWS missile so leave that out...even though a combined Barak-1/8 package offers the
Kolk a more redundant defence mechanism than Daring, who's Aster missiles (15/30) are both basically the
same type and follow the same methods of interception.

Anyway leave out Barak-1.

So your argument is that because MF-STAR and Brarak 8 are newer, then it must be more capable and advanced?

Aster 30:
Weight - 450 kg
Speed - 4.5 Mach
Range - 120 km
Flight ceiling - 20 km

Barak 8:
Weight - 275 kg
Speed - 2 Mach
Range - 70 km
Flight ceiling - 16 km

Sorry, but Barak 8 isn't even in the same league as Aster. The Aster 30 is a truly high-end air defence weapon.

SAMPSON is a very advanced AESA radar, so too is MF-STAR. Any comparison would be pure conjecture and inaccurate at best. But on paper at-least, the SAMPSON offers superior capabilities than MF-STAR. Another advantage for the Type 45 destroyer is that it is also equipped with the highly advanced S180M long range radar too.

Western countries still have a clear technological advantage over both China and India, the gap is closing, but we aren't there yet.

 

[Gessler]

So your argument is that because MF-STAR and Brarak 8 are newer, then it must be more capable and advanced?

That was just part of the argument. Probably because we know very little about the workings of MF-STAR & B-8.

Secondly I also mentioned the guidance part.

Aster 30:
Weight - 450 kg
Speed - 4.5 Mach
Range - 120 km
Flight ceiling - 20 km

Barak 8:
Weight - 275 kg
Speed - 2 Mach
Range - 70 km
Flight ceiling - 16 km

Sorry, but Barak 8 isn't even in the same league as Aster. The Aster 30 is a truly high-end air defence weapon.

This proves nothing. By this measure the old S-300 from 1970s is more capable than Aster, but that's not the case.

If Aster does not have the latest guidance & electronic systems as Barak, if it doesn't have the latest
seekers, redundancies & algorithms, then it won't be as capable as Barak in the job it is expected to do. Which
is to stop missiles from hitting the ship or take out aircraft.

Land-based versions of Barak have ranges upto 110km. It's merely a doctrine-related decision why
naval version of the 8 has only 70km range.

SAMPSON is a very advanced AESA radar, so too is MF-STAR. Any comparison would be pure conjecture and inaccurate at best. But on paper at-least, the SAMPSON offers superior capabilities than MF-STAR.

What superior capabilities? MF-STAR is a quad-array radar unlike SAMPSON which is a single, rotating
array. The rotating speed is very fast but still MFSTAR is better as far as fundamentals/basics go. MF-STAR
provides a full 360-degree coverage at all times.

You know how quickly the technological advancements in the electronics industry takes place, the more
latest system, usually does have an edge.

The details of MF-STAR range, power output etc. are not revealed so I can't speak about them.

Another advantage for the Type 45 destroyer is that it is also equipped with the highly advanced S180M long range radar too.

This part is true. Kolk's secondary radar is an old one.

Western countries still have a clear technological advantage over both China and India, the gap is closing, but we aren't there yet.

We are actually talking about subsystems. In this case, Israeli ones. In terms of electronics & radars, Israel is not that
much behind the West, in fact in some areas, they are ahead. Also don't forget in terms of anti-air/anti-missile systems,
Israelis have pretty much a considerable edge over Europe. So whatever features
are given to the Barak-8, it is there for a reason and is done so after careful calculation
& understanding of the threats at hand and what's the best way to take them out.

 

[acetophenol]

Yaar; you do need spoon-feeding.
Google "Kashmir SAM , missiles" or "Delhi destroyers, armament" or similar.

Delhi Class Guided-Missile Destroyer | Military-Today.com

Thanks for the link Roy,but I honestly thinks its a mistake.No other source calls the shitl "kashmir".I have never heard of IN using their own reporting names,let alone use a place where navy has no role.

 

[Roybot]

Thanks for the link Roy,but I honestly thinks its a mistake.No other source calls the shitl "kashmir".I have never heard of IN using their own reporting names,let alone use a place where navy has no role.

There are plenty of links which say that. Stop being so skeptical mate, Capt. Popeye knows his shyte !

The Naval Institute Guide to World Naval Weapon Systems - Norman Friedman - Google Books

 

[Gessler]

Thanks for the link Roy,but I honestly thinks its a mistake.No other source calls the shitl "kashmir".I have never heard of IN using their own reporting names,let alone use a place where navy has no role.

I think it may even be Cashmere.

...instead of the Cashmere area air defence system (comprising the 24 rounds of 40km-range 9M317M Shtil-1 MR-SAMs, 3S-90 missile launcher, four MR-90 Orekh target illuminators, and the Salyut FSUE-built E-band MR-760 Fregat M2EM 3-D radar...

CCNS finally kickstarts Indian Navy’s Project 17A

 

[Gessler]

@Ceonwulf From wikipedia :-

Aster-15/30 guidance :
--

• Inertial guidance with up-link.
• Terminal active radar homing

Barak-8 guidance :
--

• GPS S-band datalink
• Multi spectral terminal seeker
• AESA ARH/IIR

 

[Capt.Popeye]

I think it may even be Cashmere.



CCNS finally kickstarts Indian Navy’s Project 17A

No its not.
Its plain old Kashmir. However much we took from the Brits, its still 'Kashmir' whether the state or the missile system.

BTW, the Kolkata's secondary Signaal Radar is interim; pending selection of the final sensor. The Signaal though old is tried and tested and upgraded from the original design.

 

[Gessler]

No its not.
Its plain old Kashmir. However much we took from the Brits, its still 'Kashmir' whether the state or the missile system.

BTW, the Kolkata's secondary Signaal Radar is interim; pending selection of the final sensor. The Signaal though old is tried and tested and upgraded from the original design.

I guess the RAN-40L could be installed.

But yeah, definitely there will be a new radar eventually. The present Signaal model
is just an interim solution. As even Shivalik FFG has better secondary
radars than that :-

 

[Capt.Popeye]

I guess the RAN-40L could be installed.

It is in consideration (probably even a front-runner) but the Finnmeccanica scandal has put a spanner in the works, seemingly.

 

[Black Eagle 90]

I am sure Pakistan would make some nice changes to its Missiles to take it down.

 

[Capt.Popeye]

I am sure Pakistan would make some nice changes to its Missiles to take it down.

What happened to you; you stopped buying and selling Air Forces, Navies and all that?
And started doing R&D ?
You must be some kinda Clown. How do you take down something that is'nt in the Air?

 

[Abingdonboy]

I guess the RAN-40L could be installed.

The IAC-1 has the MF-STAR/RAN-40L combination as will the P-17As apparently along with the P-15Bs.


Not heard the P-15A's current radar will be replaced and the current one is only interim, would love for this to be true as I've felt the current secondary radar was one of the few major issues with the P-15As, @Capt.Popeye can you confirm this?

 

[bolo]

"Indian warship building is coming of age and the Indo-Pacific region knows it. Last week, when an Indian Navy frigate, INS Shivalik, visited China’s Qingdao naval base, China’s navy chief, Admiral Wu Shengli, asked the captain for a tour of the Combat Information Centre, the operation heart of the warship. The Shivalik’s young skipper, Captain Puruvir Das, turned down Wu’s request.

The Chinese admiral would be even more interested in touring INS Kolkata, 7,200 tonnes of bristling steel, which could join the navy as early as next month as the most powerful and high-tech warship in its 140-vessel fleet. Tonne for tonne, the Kolkata will be amongst the most potent battleships in the hotly contested waters of the Indo-Pacific"

What kind of an opening is this? You have your Kolkata, we have the 052C and 052D. Its not like the Admiral is missing out on much....

Plus the admiral and others were able to view it the next day. Not sure why indian media keep bringing that up.