Initiative to buy 16 warplanes for Tk 25,000 crore

[waz]

Go for the Typhoon guys, 16 is a great start and it's an incredible plane.
The UK has strong links to Bangladesh, and BAE will be more than willing.

 

[Jobless Jack]

EFT is what I am hearing from defence circles.
The numbers also add up if the 3 billion figure reported is true.
The PM has no plan to build 4th gen fighters, at least not just yet. People read too much into platitudes. She wants to get BAC moving so that they can build something. MRCAs are not tied to BAC in any way.

However with you in that EFT with ToT is a no brainer.

Eurofighter with TOT?

this would be deal of the century.

 

[Destranator]

Eurofighter with TOT?

this would be deal of the century.

I meant Gripen with ToT.

 

[VikingRaider]

Just to give you an example, why India is risking to challenge powerful China there to hold it while it can actually steal Bangladesh land which is much much weaker than China

They can't steal Bangladesh. @Homo Sapiens posted a thread few days ago that was a narration from Indian general during our freedom war.
He ( General) explained that how hard was it to cross the Megha river ; he feared that Pakistan army would literally bogged down Indian army.

However if that time Pakistan army ( surrounded by hostile Bengali people) can literally bogged down Indian army , then now how can India move their army to Annex Bangladesh while the armed forces of Bangladesh will be fighting with the support the huge civilians?

Bangladesh is called defence heaven , if India advance with army and want to reach Dhaka they only can use part of west Bengal border .

But look at the map of Bangladesh.

If you move army through this area , Bangladesh armed forces will hold Dhaka at any cost like and will use guerrilla forces to dismantle Indian troops.

Bangladesh armed forces know our land very well ,but India army don't.

Also hostile civilians will working under army guide line to ambush Indian army.

So the result will be, we can literally bogged down the Indian army under marsh.

In a war Military always use a formula that is METT - TC and in Bangladesh everything will be against Indian army if it ever try to advance.

So although it looks easy for Indian to annex Bangladesh ,it's very difficult.

On the other hand if China ever want to wring the Chicken neck ( shiliguri corridor) , then without using Bangladeshi land , they will lose seven sisters.

But Bangladesh isn't going to help India against any battle with China , so if India want to use Bangladeshi land and Bangladesh refuse , the real enmity will start.

Bangladesh then need huge armed forces if it ever need to counter Indian military directly.

So bottom line is Bangladeshi land can be helpful for India like windfall if China want wring the chicken neck to weaken India.

So if Bangladesh don't let India use it's land , then India will try to create a threat so that they can hold their seven sisters.

So strategically Bangladesh is very important.

On the other hand , if Bangladesh choose to join Chinese block , it can act as a hedge. Without using Bangladeshi land , India is even unable to send logistics to the NE India.

Myanmar is not going to aid India too ,since it's actually Chinese extension when military is in power.

Now you equate the things !

'Bay of Bengal is not sterile, US can use Andaman island to attack any logistic ships coming from Myanmar if full scale war happen as India will side to US.

Yes right . And that's why Myanmar will act as Chinese land in order to counter USA.

On the other hand Bangladesh will be used as a strong hedge to prevent India and it's ally USA sending logistics to NE India.

If India not stop siding USA , China now can totally make NE isolated form mainland , by wringing chicken neck and blocking the sea root with the hedge Bangladesh.

From where India will send troops to NE?

SEA is blocked by Bangladesh , all Chinese troops will use Myanmar land , so only chicken neck is the way that is already wringed by China.

So who will be in convenient position? USA or China ?

If Bangladesh join in western block , India can easily use the land of Bangladesh when China wrings the chicken neck !

So can't Bangladesh be the decisive fact , if such thing happen in future?

@Indos

 

[Indos]

Sure, even Indian army can hold BAF with S-400 deployment.
I wish BD could go for gripen. Reliable plane, but not with AAMRAM. It can have meteor to keep Myanmar SU-30s at bay. But meteor are very expensive.
Plus single engine fighter are cheap to procure, cheap to maintain, and cheap to operate.. Can gripen fire, AAMRAM @Indos ? Also, you cna buy AWACS from Sweden when you have bought Gripen.

I dont know, but maybe Gripen can fire AAMRAM as well. I think Bangladesh can try to ask SAB whether they could try to integrate Gripen with AMRAAM.

 

[F-6 enthusiast]

I dont know, but maybe Gripen can fire AAMRAM as well. I think Bangladesh can try to ask SAB whether they could try to integrate Gripen with AMRAAM.

i think they can fire AMRAAM not sure which variant though.
We will need something (preferrably single engined) to replace our F-7 in the future. I think the EFT might have been chosen for it's range which can be utilised for maritime strike.

 

[bluesky]

F-7MBs need immediate replacement. BG and BGIs will have to stay. They are not bad for point defence.

Most of the F-7BMs seem to have been retired out of service. As far as I understand, F-7BGIs are very effective planes.

 

[Indos]

They can't still Bangladesh. @Homo Sapiens posted a thread few days ago that was a narration from Indian general during our freedom war.
He ( General) explained that how hard was it to cross the Megha river ; he feared that Pakistan army would literally bogged down Indian army.

However if that time Pakistan army ( surrounded by hostile Bengali people) can literally bogged down Indian army , then now how can India move their army to Annex Bangladesh while the armed forces of Bangladesh will be fighting with the support the huge civilians?

Bangladesh is called defence heaven , if India advance with army and want to reach Dhaka they only can use part of west Bengal border .

But look at the map of Bangladesh.

If you move army through this area , Bangladesh armed forces will hold Dhaka at any cost like and will use guerrilla forces to dismantle Indian troops.

Bangladesh armed forces know our land very well ,but India army don't.

Also hostile civilians will working under army guide line to ambush Indian army.

So the result will be, we can literally bogged down the Indian army under marsh.

In a war Military always use a formula that is METT - TC and in Bangladesh everything will be against Indian army if it ever try to advance.

So although it looks easy for Indian to annex Bangladesh ,it's very difficult.

On the other hand if China ever want to wring the Chicken neck ( shiliguri corridor) , then without using Bangladeshi land , they will lose seven sisters.

But Bangladesh isn't going to help India against any battle with China , so if India want to use Bangladeshi land and Bangladesh refuse , the real enmity will start.

Bangladesh then need huge armed forces if it ever need to counter Indian military directly.

So bottom line is Bangladeshi land can be helpful for India like windfall if China want wring the chicken neck to weaken India.

So if Bangladesh don't let India use it's land , then India will try to create a threat so that they can hold their seven sisters.

So strategically Bangladesh is very important.

On the other hand , if Bangladesh choose to join Chinese block , it can act as a hedge. Without using Bangladeshi land , India is even unable to send logistics to the NE India.

Myanmar is not going to aid India too ,since it's actually Chinese extension when military is in power.

Now you equate the things !

Yes right . And that's why Myanmar will act as Chinese land in order to counter USA.

On the other hand Bangladesh will be used as a strong hedge to prevent India and it's ally USA sending logistics to NE India.

If India not stop siding USA , China now can totally make NE isolated form mainland , by wringing chicken neck and blocking the sea root with the hedge Bangladesh.

From where India will send troops to NE?

SEA is blocked by Bangladesh , all Chinese troops will use Myanmar land , so only chicken neck is the way that is already wringed by China.

So who will be in convenient position? USA or China ?

If Bangladesh join in western block , India can easily use the land of Bangladesh when China wrings the chicken neck !

So can't Bangladesh be the decisive fact , if such thing happen in future?

@Indos

I said stealing Bangladesh land, not entirely annexing Bangladesh, similar like how Russia get Crimea from Ukraine. Talking a bit about Crimea, we all know the historic reason behind it and the land is also quite strategic for Russian. The situation cannot be compared with possible Indian invasion on Bangladesh, but I would say India is able to take some land from Bangladesh if it wants to, regardless of its economic consequence.

Why Indian will not invade and attack Bangladesh

Bangladesh is highly dense region with 90 % Muslim and dont have much oil and gas. I dont think Indian is interested to grab your nation as I have stated in my previous post. More on that, India has already had enough land, even they still spare much of it for their tiger reservation, pretty much North East is still much less populated as well.

Annexing Bangladesh can weaken their economy and they will get sanction from UN and embargo from Muslim nations, remember much of Indian oil and gas comes from Middle East. It is also not easy to wage war with nation who has 160 million people either.

Some perceived threat might comes from emotion than logic

In essence I think Bangladeshi see Indian as threat is due to India is much bigger than Bangladesh and much more powerful. I dont blame that, even Singapore see Indonesia as a threat and use a lot of resources to improve their defense capability, including using conscript to defend possible invasion.

While for Indonesian, Singapore is already densely populated and if we want to invade them, their building and factory will likely be destroyed and many of the rich Singaporeans have already escaped through Malaysia and transfered their money to another country. Not considering how much UN and the West will put economic sanction on us. Not worth it. But regardless of that they keep pouring money into their defense budget. Irrational I guess, so I dont blame some of you guys who are so worried with Indian.

While Malaysia has already understand the new situation. They dont spend on defense too much like Singapore, despite they have huge land in Borneo island that could be annexed by Indonesia. Borneo is also less populated and this is where Malaysian oil and gas are originated. Their Borneo part is also bordering our part of Borneo. This is not mentioning Malaysian in Borneo is much closer to Indonesian culturally with their Malay speaking language and they are felt being abandoned by Peninsula Malaysia despite much of the oil and gas comes from their areas.

In short, expanding land and territory is not something that is really important nowadays with economy growth is more caused by industrialization, technology advancement, and modern service sectors than agricultural sectors expansion, unless you are a land scarce nation like Singapore.

Despite all of what I have said, it doesnt mean Bangladesh should not have some preparation, but I suggest the preparation should not be excessive and should focus more on immediate threat from Myanmar. Any way the have already send 1 million Rohingya to Bangladesh with impunity from Bangladesh Armed Force.

 

[Homo Sapiens]

I dont get Bangladeshi members who keep talking about India threat. India is next door and very powerful. It is Myanmar who send 1 million Rohingya to your country and has territorial dispute over some waters and island that should be seen as the biggest potential threat. Unless you have land as massive as Xin Jiang, I dont think India has interest to swallow your nation.

I also dont get you guys keep talking nice about China and want to buy J 10 while they have supported Myanmar regime many times, including during recent UN attempt to make some kind of resolution to Myanmar.

Actually we don't have any dispute with Myanmar other than Rohingyas. The land boundary and maritime boundary with Myanmar is fully settled and both country accept that. Now come to St. Martin's Island which you are referring. Actually Myanmar never officially claimed that island or even demanded by any of their govt. officials ever. That island was always part of Bangladesh and internationally recognized territory of Bangladesh which Myanmar also accepted in multiple agreements and treaties. The entire 'problem' arised 2 years ago, when Bangladesh Ministry of Foreign Affairs(MOFA) discovered some of the Myanmar official website maps which included St. Martin's island. Now, the island is so small that it can not be seen in naked eyes on Myanmar map. Can only be seen by zooming. Bangladesh immediately protested and demanded to edit the map, which Myanmar obliged and claimed that it was a mistake. Perhaps they were not serious enough to edit all the map. Few months later, Bangladesh MOFA again discovered some of their govt. website still has that wrong map. Bangladesh again protested and Myanmar again rectified those map and claimed mistake.

This happened two times. Now it may be a genuinely a mistake, given that St. Martin's island is just 8 nautical miles away from Myanmar coast and so small that do not make any presence in a normal one page map. May be the cartographer team made a genuine mistake or many suspect it is related to Rohingya issue, like their helicopter violation of Bangladesh's air space, they wanted another diplomatic incidence to suppress the Rohingya issue. Whatever, our MOFA since then did not discover any of their map with St. Martin's Island so far. you can read my this post to know more about the background of that Island and why Myanmar can never have any legitimate claim over that island.

Why are Bangladesh and Myanmar enemies?

I don't understand. Just tell the truth or perhaps there is some reason you cannot. Maybe you guys are facing many more problems there than I can imagine. Don't even know what this South Asian style is. I am 4th generation in Canada, ancestors from England, Scotland and one from Germany...

defence.pk

I dont get Bangladeshi members who keep talking about India threat. India is next door and very powerful. It is Myanmar who send 1 million Rohingya to your country and has territorial dispute over some waters and island that should be seen as the biggest potential threat. Unless you have land as massive as Xin Jiang, I dont think India has interest to swallow your nation.

Myanmar is a country which is fighting with itself for the last 70 years. So how they can be a credible threat against us? It is a country smaller than Bangladesh in every way except landmass. As I have mentioned, we have no territorial dispute with them and their objective regarding Bangladesh already achieved by expelling Rohingyas. Myanmar don't want anything from Bangladesh other than getting rid of their Rohingyas and seal the border and concentrate on East Asia. Bangladesh and Myanmar belongs to two different geo-political and cultural zone and had minimal interaction historically.

Believe it or not, only because of Rohingya crisis, Bangladeshis are forced to take interest on Myanmar affairs, otherwise it never loomed on our national conscience. I am sure this is also the case with Burmese. They are more interested to concentrate on Thailand and all those countries in the East rather than looking west towards Bangladesh and India. That's why I called, Bangladesh and Myanmar belongs to two different civilization.

For all of these reasons, neither Myanmar is a capable threat to us nor we are a threat to them. Provided that, Rohingya crisis find some acceptable solution we want same cordial yet a distant relationship with Myanmar like we have with Thailand or Vietnam.

Now come to India. It is a country loom large on our national affairs. And we share so may things that there is always a chance to pop-up dispute. Just consider that we share 53 common river with them. We have over 4000 km border to manage. And India is a much powerful country and has a regional and global power ambition, unlike Myanmar. They want to be a hegemonic power and want to control it's neighborhood. This type of attitude is bound to create problems with countries like Bangladesh who are unwilling to live any other country's shadow. Moreover Hindutva fascist are now seated in power in India. they have an inborn hatred against Sub-continental Muslims. So their ideological hatred also include Bangladesh. So we can never be assured of their plot against us. Even if they don't invade us they will try to bully us in many ways. Which we need to resist. A strong defence force of ours can be a potent arm of our diplomacy to resist their pressure. I hope I cleared my position to you.

 

[F-6 enthusiast]

I hope we get the training and support from institutions like RAF , Italian Air force and have a chance at participating in the Red Flag excercise in US.

 

[VikingRaider]

I said stealing Bangladesh land, not entirely annexing Bangladesh, similar like how Russia get Crimea from Ukraine.

Yes , and I also didn't mean entire Bangladesh actually. Because India doesn't need entire Bangladesh,it will not be beneficial for them .

India only need only Rangpur division of Bangladesh that is 6250 sq miles only.

But this small part will solve their chicken neck problem.

So yes ,in order to protect Rangpur , we need huge preparation.

Annexing Bangladesh can weaken their economy

Exactly. That's why only Rangpur. I I can remember correctly ,here already an assames user claimed that we took Rampur division unfairly.

It look like troll cliam from him , but Rangpur Division is too much important for India , more than oil and gas , as you won't be interested to sell seven sisters for oil and gas!

Also India isn't powerful as USA that it will seek for oil.

It will seek for it's own land only that is too much vulnerable!

@Indos

 

[magra]

You cannot use Sikkim as analogy, it is very different. Just to give you an example, why India is risking to challenge powerful China there to hold it while it can actually steal Bangladesh land which is much much weaker than China.

Similar like Indonesia will go to war with Singapore if Singapore try to steal a small island near Singapore strait. It is more about dignity than any thing else.

Sikkim, I dont know the history, but in the past nation try to grab as much land as it could. Indonesia also invaded East Timor and during Soekarno time, Indonesia want to invade Malaysia. As technology become more advance, grabbing more land doesnt necessary make you become more wealthy. We have passed that period already.

Yup, Sikkim might be quite strategic, maybe it is related to the origin of Indian rivers or it is a way to defend North East as China also still consider North East India as their historic territory since they captured big part of Tibet already.

Sikkim was a kingdom till 1975 but Indian protectorate. It meant that Indian army was responsible for guarding Sikkim's borders. Since China invaded and captured Tibet in 1950s, Sikkim was scared that China would invade Sikkim too.
India was also scared of this possibility as it would seriously endangered the Chicken's neck corridor and thus the entire North east.
In 1975, people in Sikkim revolted against the King and requested India to take over. Some say that this revolt was the work of Raw (cant be sure). Anyways, a plebiscite was then held, and overwhelming majority voted for merger with India.
Since then, people of Sikkim have been quite happy with India and has seen a lot of development over the years. I have been to Sikkim and has seen no discontent or anti-India feelings among locals.

Indian army was in BD in 1971 and could have pushed for capturing some contiguous territories to expand Chicken's neck if that was the goal, but it was not. That was India's best chance till date. If India did not do that then, it is unlikely India would ever capture any BD territory now.
India peacefully settled the maritime dispute with BD through arbitration.

 

[leonblack08]

It will be EFTs which will bleed BAF for decades.


BAF has no interest in Gripens at the moment but let us hope future leadership grows a spine and keeps expanding the fleet. Gripen with ToT is the best option for replacing the entire existing fleet and expanding further.

If I am not wrong, Gripen outsources a lot of it's parts from various countries and the Engine coming from US. While on paper it looks like the cheapest and best option, there is a strategic complication with Gripen procurement. BD has recently communicated openly we will not be signing security pact with US. Clearly we don't want US string attached to anything. Procuring Gripen would allow just that. Otherwise we could have gone for F 16s or F18s for that 3 billion.

So Gripen is definitely not happening for now.

 

[VikingRaider]

Indian army was in BD in 1971 and could have pushed for capturing some contiguous territories to expand Chicken's neck if that was the goal, but it was not.

@magra ,It was not so easy as it looks like.

If Indian troops tried to annex any part of Bangladesh in 1971 , it would back fire completely , as Pakistan was claiming that India forcefully annexed East Pakistan.

So if Indian army would have annexed any part of new found Bangladesh , then the claims of Pakistan would be proven right and no longer Russians would come to prevent American fleet to attack on India on behalf of Pakistan.

Also all Soviet veto for the liberation war of Bangladesh would back fired , so it's Soviet Union who would never allow India doing so.

 

[magra]

They can't still Bangladesh. @Homo Sapiens posted a thread few days ago that was a narration from Indian general during our freedom war.
He ( General) explained that how hard was it to cross the Megha river ; he feared that Pakistan army would literally bogged down Indian army.

However if that time Pakistan army ( surrounded by hostile Bengali people) can literally bogged down Indian army , then now how can India move their army to Annex Bangladesh while the armed forces of Bangladesh will be fighting with the support the huge civilians?

Bangladesh is called defence heaven , if India advance with army and want to reach Dhaka they only can use part of west Bengal border .

But look at the map of Bangladesh.

If you move army through this area , Bangladesh armed forces will hold Dhaka at any cost like and will use guerrilla forces to dismantle Indian troops.

Bangladesh armed forces know our land very well ,but India army don't.

Also hostile civilians will working under army guide line to ambush Indian army.

So the result will be, we can literally bogged down the Indian army under marsh.

In a war Military always use a formula that is METT - TC and in Bangladesh everything will be against Indian army if it ever try to advance.

So although it looks easy for Indian to annex Bangladesh ,it's very difficult.

On the other hand if China ever want to wring the Chicken neck ( shiliguri corridor) , then without using Bangladeshi land , they will lose seven sisters.

But Bangladesh isn't going to help India against any battle with China , so if India want to use Bangladeshi land and Bangladesh refuse , the real enmity will start.

Bangladesh then need huge armed forces if it ever need to counter Indian military directly.

So bottom line is Bangladeshi land can be helpful for India like windfall if China want wring the chicken neck to weaken India.

So if Bangladesh don't let India use it's land , then India will try to create a threat so that they can hold their seven sisters.

So strategically Bangladesh is very important.

On the other hand , if Bangladesh choose to join Chinese block , it can act as a hedge. Without using Bangladeshi land , India is even unable to send logistics to the NE India.

Myanmar is not going to aid India too ,since it's actually Chinese extension when military is in power.

Now you equate the things !

Yes right . And that's why Myanmar will act as Chinese land in order to counter USA.

On the other hand Bangladesh will be used as a strong hedge to prevent India and it's ally USA sending logistics to NE India.

If India not stop siding USA , China now can totally make NE isolated form mainland , by wringing chicken neck and blocking the sea root with the hedge Bangladesh.

From where India will send troops to NE?

SEA is blocked by Bangladesh , all Chinese troops will use Myanmar land , so only chicken neck is the way that is already wringed by China.

So who will be in convenient position? USA or China ?

If Bangladesh join in western block , India can easily use the land of Bangladesh when China wrings the chicken neck !

So can't Bangladesh be the decisive fact , if such thing happen in future?

@Indos

So you acknowledge that India is not interested in enmity with BD. It needs BD's friendship to protect its north-east. Why would BD not want to be-friend India? Is it not in both countries' interests to be friendly neighbors?

@magra ,It was not so easy as it looks like.

If Indian troops tried to annex any part of Bangladesh in 1971 , it would back fire completely , as Pakistan was claiming that India forcefully annexed East Pakistan.

So if Indian army would have annexed any part of new found Bangladesh , then the claims of Pakistan would be proven right and no longer Russians would come to prevent American fleet to attack on India on behalf of Pakistan.

Also all Soviet veto for the liberation war of Bangladesh would back fired , so it's Soviet Union who would never allow India doing so.

Soviet veto and fleet protection happened during the war. After this, Pak army was ready to surrender.
India could have captured land in north BD around Dec 16. Pak army while surrendering could not have opposed it. Pakistan could have only made feeble noise at world stage, since it knew we held 93K POWs which they wanted back.