Indonesian Navy wants to prolong the operating life of its 6 Van Speijk class Frigates

[Bhayangkara]

I think jokowi already choose to build our own war ship on our own ship yard, so it's impossible for ship from china to be purchased by the navy, we are concentrating on PKR 105, who knows tommorow will be a PKR 125 or even PKR 140

Well, it's true. But I think this replacement program will not interfere the previous program. Also we don't know whether this plan will be in synergy with the development project which is in cooperation with ITS, or whether it will be a different contract., So, before any final decision from our govt, all the possibilities is possible..

 

[William Hung]

Unfortunately, it seems no one can predict the total cost of the installation of these missile systems, even the information about the exact numbers were bought is undisclosed..
In several articles where I read it just mentioned the purchase of this Yakhont missile at US$.1,2 million each, that's all. So I think we'll never get clear informations about the upgrade cost..

Damn, that's true. If the company (partner) that did the upgrade is a private listed company, then they will usually disclose the value of their contract (like some western company). But very hard to find out if it is from a state owned company, especially a Russian state owned one. I believe the Yakhont armed van Speijk class was upgraded in partnership with the Russian. So no hope to find the real cost like you said.

Until this day, the Vietnamese public still don't know exactly how much the govt paid for the Russian Gerpard corvettes (3rd and 4th), and it is almost completed already.

 

[Bhayangkara]

Damn, that's true. If the company (partner) that did the upgrade is a private listed company, then they will usually disclose the value of their contract (like some western company). But very hard to find out if it is from a state owned company, especially a Russian state owned one. I believe the Yakhont armed van Speijk class was upgraded in partnership with the Russian. So no hope to find the real cost like you said.

Until this day, the Vietnamese public still don't know exactly how much the govt paid for the Russian Gerpard corvettes (3rd and 4th), and it is almost completed already.

Yah, every nations has its own way to protect any information for their own interest..

anyway, why Vietnam prefer to take Gepard class rather than the Steregushchy?? I think the Steregushchy besides has adopted more modern design also has more advanced systems and weaponry in the same price range with Gepard class..
In 2004 Indonesia was almost taking 4 units Steregushchy before finnaly we prefering Sigma corvette..

 

[Carlosa]

Yah, every nations has its own way to protect any information for their own interest...

But of course, its a good excuse to keep the bribes under wraps.

anyway, why Vietnam prefer to take Gepard class rather than the Steregushchy?? I think the Steregushchy besides has adopted more modern design also has more advanced systems and weaponry in the same price range with Gepard class..
In 2004 Indonesia was almost taking 4 units Steregushchy before finnaly we prefering Sigma corvette..

Because someone received the "proper incentives" from the shipyard that makes the Gepard.

 

[Indos]

Do you know what the total cost was to upgrade it to use the Yakhont? (i.e. the total cost including system integration with the radars, cms, the VLS, etc.)

Any update pics of the current Sigma frigates under construction?

Thanks.

I dont know mate, it is done by Indonesian shipbuilder PT PAL, so if there is some interest regarding that, you need to ask PT PAL by yourselves. On the CMS you need to ask PT LEN and for LPI radar you need to ask PT Infra RCS.

While indonesia has good effort of modernization in the naval forces, why there is an extreme spends on such an old ships ? I even confront that Turkey modernized G-class AAW frigates ,but there wasnt any class to replace till 2020s , also it is still about 30 years old which is a limit by NATO for operated ships.

They are almost 50 years old , it doesnt matter what you install on those ships ,overhauling a system after 30 years isnt cost effective ,if there is a modernization projected for this class, how many years it is supposed to be in operation (Think a basic Cost/year assumption) ? The cost of overhauling during years after 30-35 , or a massive project to modernize them with modern equipment will cost almost as a new system.

Very bulky design from 60s , Not effective cannon, Excess ratio of hull weight/equipment , Large RCS ,Less survivability.

It is more logical to basically build/ purchase new platforms, even a corvette sized ship can replace these old ships . They should have been decommissioned when there is need to change engines ,Sorry but who really thought to modernize them in this way isnt a professional anyway . It is mostly to sustain production for the company's economical wheel.

View attachment 234275
Here is list /commission.

Thanks for this explanation bro, thats why currently PT PAL is reviewing this first, Navy want to see the evaluation from PT PAL first before real step is taken.

Although this is part of the navy short-term plan, hopefully in next five years our MoD able to determine about the successor, because this ships is one of the priorities that need immediate replacement..

We have already planned to build 4 Sigma Frigate ( 2 are currently being constructed). I believe only after 10 new frigates are completed, then we can think about retiring Van Speijk class. The upgrade itself will benefit our defense companies like PT LEN, PT Infra RCS, and PT PAL. Dont forget the situation in Ambalat and SCS.

 

[Bhayangkara]

But of course, its a good excuse to keep the bribes under wraps..

That's could be one of the reason, I can't deny it..

Because someone received the "proper incentives" from the shipyard that makes the Gepard.

If that's the case, then it's too bad.. Just because wanted more kickbacks, so the advantage factor of the products should be ruled out..

 

[Carlosa]

If that's the case, then it's too bad.. Just because wanted more kickbacks, so the advantage factor of the products should be ruled out..

If that's not the case, then its extreme incompetence and mismanagement, which is also typical in Vietnam, so difficult to say which one it is, maybe a combination of the two.

 

[Imran Khan]

why not they just retired them simply its almost 50 years old damn

 

[pr1v4t33r]

We will retire them once we acquire their replacement.
New light frigate (sigma 10514) fleet will be ready starting from next year, we had secured the license to build 20 of this ship.

Plus the new government's initiative has been started to design & develop new frigate (150m long) in collaboration with Indonesian universities (ITS) and PT.PAL

 

[Bhayangkara]

We have already planned to build 4 Sigma Frigate ( 2 are currently being constructed). I believe only after 10 new frigates are completed, then we can think about retiring Van Speijk class. The upgrade itself will benefit our defense companies like PT LEN, PT Infra RCS, and PT PAL. Dont forget the situation in Ambalat and SCS.

Oh No, Sir.. If we have to wait up to 10 units PKR Sigma constructions is completed, then should much how longer those V'S fleet must still in operations, while the first PKR's completed is in 2017. And I prefer using the budget's for the development program which is in cooperation with ITS rather than using it for upgrading those V'S ships, because it's not cost efective at all..

If that's not the case, then its extreme incompetence and mismanagement, which is also typical in Vietnam, so difficult to say which one it is, maybe a combination of the two.

It's not just happening in Vietnam, but almost in every countries in region., As we all know, such practices has become a common knowledge in relating to the weapons transactions. And I believe that most countries have done the same practice because it's all about business as usual..

 

[Carlosa]

It's not just happening in Vietnam, but almost in every countries in region., As we all know, such practices has become a common knowledge in relating to the weapons transactions. And I believe that most countries have done the same practice because it's all about business as usual..

I totally agree with you.

 

[William Hung]

anyway, why Vietnam prefer to take Gepard class rather than the Steregushchy?? I think the Steregushchy besides has adopted more modern design also has more advanced systems and weaponry in the same price range with Gepard class..
In 2004 Indonesia was almost taking 4 units Steregushchy before finnaly we prefering Sigma corvette..

I have no idea bro. The first 2 Gerpard corvettes was not so bad because it was cheap (~$150 mil), good training ships for the navy because we have never operated corvettes over 2000 tons before. But the order for next 4 Gepards is just silly imo. They supposedly cost the same or more than the Steregushchy but has way less firepower.

The Gepard is actually originally an OPV design, they just add some weapons to it and calls it a “frigate”. They are not a real multipurpose corvette like the Steregushchy with complete AAW, ASW and AShW package in one hull. The first 2 Gepards has no decent SAM system, and no Sonar, no hangar. The 3rd and 4th only add a sonar+torpedo launchers and the 5th and 6th I hope they just cancel it lol.

Basically, why the Gepard was ordered I have no idea. The latest 4 orders are just simply illogical imo.

 

[Indos]

I have no idea bro. The first 2 Gerpard corvettes was not so bad because it was cheap (~$150 mil), good training ships for the navy because we have never operated corvettes over 2000 tons before. But the order for next 4 Gepards is just silly imo. They supposedly cost the same or more than the Steregushchy but has way less firepower.

The Gepard is actually originally an OPV design, they just add some weapons to it and calls it a “frigate”. They are not a real multipurpose corvette like the Steregushchy with complete AAW, ASW and AShW package in one hull. The first 2 Gepards has no decent SAM system, and no Sonar, no hangar. The 3rd and 4th only add a sonar+torpedo launchers and the 5th and 6th I hope they just cancel it lol.

Basically, why the Gepard was ordered I have no idea. The latest 4 orders are just simply illogical imo.

Yup, I have seen the design, totally agree on you. It can be so wasteful in the time when you really need powerful warship.

 

[William Hung]

Yup, I have seen the design, totally agree on you. It can be so wasteful in the time when you really need powerful warship.

Hehe thats why the Viet Gepards are nick named “cheerleading ships” on forums.

 

[Carlosa]

I have no idea bro. The first 2 Gerpard corvettes was not so bad because it was cheap (~$150 mil), good training ships for the navy because we have never operated corvettes over 2000 tons before. But the order for next 4 Gepards is just silly imo. They supposedly cost the same or more than the Steregushchy but has way less firepower.

The Gepard is actually originally an OPV design, they just add some weapons to it and calls it a “frigate”. They are not a real multipurpose corvette like the Steregushchy with complete AAW, ASW and AShW package in one hull. The first 2 Gepards has no decent SAM system, and no Sonar, no hangar. The 3rd and 4th only add a sonar+torpedo launchers and the 5th and 6th I hope they just cancel it lol.

Basically, why the Gepard was ordered I have no idea. The latest 4 orders are just simply illogical imo.

I totally agree with you. That's why I always say that its either bribery or extreme incompetence, I can't see any other reason. I don't buy the reasons that Viet members usually give to justify the Gepards or to justify to continue buying them.