Indonesia invites ASEAN to engage in defense industry

[Nike]

Still, their shipbuilding industry is one of the largest in the world.They have the infrastructure, they have the workmanship, they have the resources, all they need now is just more capital.


Facts And Developments In The Philippines’ Shipbuilding & Maritime Industry

• The arrival of foreign shipbuilders in the Philippines propelled the export growth of Philippine-made ships in the international market. After being recognized as the fifth largest shipbuilder in the world, shipyards established in the Philippines are now building more ships of larger tonnage capacities like bulk carriers, container ships and passenger ferries. The construction of 180,000-DWT commercial ship by Hanjin Heavy Industries Corporation, a South Korean shipbuilding giant, shows that the Philippines can really build world-class ocean-going vessels.

• The Philippines is quickly becoming a global shipbuilding hub by using the skills and resources of foreign players. In 2010, the country surpassed its European rivals and has since become the fourth-biggest shipbuilding nation, after China, South Korea and Japan.

• Available slots and a growing diverse range of products on offer have propelled the Philippines to the top of the global shipbuilding leaderboard for the first time. The Southeast Asian archipelago beat South Korea into top spot for order intakes for April, according to Clarkson Research. The Philippine yards won newbuildings of 590,000 cgt, followed by Korea with 530,000 cgt, China taking 290,000 cgt and Japan grabbing 150,000 cgt of orders on April 2015

Huh, ok. But let me reminds you, and forgive me for about to burst your greater Pinoy dream and giving the hints the reality of Philippine defense industry. Philippine defense industry is nearly non-existence at this points. They GA is only producing small munitions and doing some repair works for their Assault rifles. First reason, The yearly budget for acquisition for Philippine Armed Forces is currently count for 300 million to 400 million yearly. Can you imagine, with that small amount of money they must give a thought for everything, starting for the basic needs like uniforms, helmet, until the acquisition of Big ticket items. (you can search further info from Timawa.net, a nice forum indeed). And thus with that small amount of money, literally the economic scale to build everything at home will be suicidal financially.

And then why Philippine shipyard can't made their own warships for now, and in near future. Simply, and it will be the second reason, the economics scale for doing that in Philippine is so small, no one want to give a chance for small amount of money and projects let alone their bidding process and tender is a mess. With no continuing order in future, the military industry will be starved and surely they will just wither away and rotten. And lastly, the third reasons, one thing must be taken into serious consideration, the climate of Philippine politics is a joke, the possibility for an administration to ditch their previous administration projects is very high, in Philippine politics one thing is certain, and that is the uncertainty itself. You can't made any defense industry flourishing with that kind of attitude, they need continuous support from the central government to nurture them and giving the best climate for them to flourishing. I had seen Philippine SRDP programme is like a joke, every project in SRDP programme is become pet projects for their patron general. When the general and officer itself move to another positions, then the project itself will die and forgotten.

 

[Aepsilons]

Huh, ok. But let me reminds you, and forgive me for about to burst your greater Pinoy dream and giving the hints the reality of Philippine defense industry. Philippine defense industry is nearly non-existence at this points. They GA is only producing small munitions and doing some repair works for their Assault rifles. First reason, The yearly budget for acquisition for Philippine Armed Forces is currently count for 300 million to 400 million yearly. Can you imagine, with that small amount of money they must give a thought for everything, starting for the basic needs like uniforms, helmet, until the acquisition of Big ticket items. (you can search further info from Timawa.net, a nice forum indeed). And thus with that small amount of money, literally the economic scale to build everything at home will be suicidal financially.

And then why Philippine shipyard can't made their own warships for now, and in near future. Simply, and it will be the second reason, the economics scale for doing that in Philippine is so small, no one want to give a chance for small amount of money and projects let alone their bidding process and tender is a mess. With no continuing order in future, the military industry will be starved and surely they will just wither away and rotten. And lastly, the third reasons, one thing must be taken into serious consideration, the climate of Philippine politics is a joke, the possibility for an administration to ditch their previous administration projects is very high, in Philippine politics one thing is certain, and that is the uncertainty itself. You can't made any defense industry flourishing with that kind of attitude, they need continuous support from the central government to nurture them and giving the best climate for them to flourishing. I had seen Philippine SRDP programme is like a joke, every project in SRDP programme is become pet projects for their patron general. When the general and officer itself move to another positions, then the project itself will die and forgotten.

What you appraise is true and valid -- for the moment. Corruption is a barrier to their defense industry , however , let us be clear that national politic is never static, my sweet Madoka-chan. Have faith in your Pinoy cousins. I believe they can do it. They accomplished much recently, and should be recognized for that.

 

[Nike]

What you appraise is true and valid -- for the moment. Corruption is a barrier to their defense industry , however , let us be clear that national politic is never static, my sweet Madoka-chan. Have faith in your Pinoy cousins. I believe they can do it. They accomplished much recently, and should be recognized for that.

I'am not belittle them, unless they are doing some drastic measure at National scales to reform everything (especially in their politics and education), everything you said will be only a dream.

 

[Aepsilons]

I'am not belittle them, unless they are doing some drastic measure at National scales to reform everything (especially in their politics and education), everything you said will be only a dream.

I understand your weariness, but let us give Manila the benefit of doubt, my sweet lady.

Smile. Happy Valentines Day, fiery Madoka-chan.

 

[Zero_wing]

Huh, ok. But let me reminds you, and forgive me for about to burst your greater Pinoy dream and giving the hints the reality of Philippine defense industry. Philippine defense industry is nearly non-existence at this points. They GA is only producing small munitions and doing some repair works for their Assault rifles. First reason, The yearly budget for acquisition for Philippine Armed Forces is currently count for 300 million to 400 million yearly. Can you imagine, with that small amount of money they must give a thought for everything, starting for the basic needs like uniforms, helmet, until the acquisition of Big ticket items. (you can search further info from Timawa.net, a nice forum indeed). And thus with that small amount of money, literally the economic scale to build everything at home will be suicidal financially.

And then why Philippine shipyard can't made their own warships for now, and in near future. Simply, and it will be the second reason, the economics scale for doing that in Philippine is so small, no one want to give a chance for small amount of money and projects let alone their bidding process and tender is a mess. With no continuing order in future, the military industry will be starved and surely they will just wither away and rotten. And lastly, the third reasons, one thing must be taken into serious consideration, the climate of Philippine politics is a joke, the possibility for an administration to ditch their previous administration projects is very high, in Philippine politics one thing is certain, and that is the uncertainty itself. You can't made any defense industry flourishing with that kind of attitude, they need continuous support from the central government to nurture them and giving the best climate for them to flourishing. I had seen Philippine SRDP programme is like a joke, every project in SRDP programme is become pet projects for their patron general. When the general and officer itself move to another positions, then the project itself will die and forgotten.

Well guys i agree with you but i also agree with Nihonjin1051 change is in the air so the possibility is there back then most of the projects and industries were classified or unknown the GA for example is mostly unknown by the General public now it's getting support from the public and the congress the current modernization law and the defense industry techno park is prove of that change its a slow change but i take over no change and the fear of china and the other claimants is also helping the only reason am thankful about but again slow changes but still better than nothing.

 

[Nike]

Well guys i agree with you but i also agree with Nihonjin1051 change is in the air so the possibility is there back then most of the projects and industries were classified or unknown the GA for example is mostly unknown by the General public now it's getting support from the public and the congress the current modernization law and the defense industry techno park is prove of that change its a slow change but i take over no change and the fear of china and the other claimants is also helping the only reason am thankful about but again slow changes but still better than nothing.

The first thing to move is basically step up from the very basic thing. And what it is? Doing some major overhaul and reform for your Armed Forces from within. PA still had a lot of old bras who basically got promotion without merit and doesn't know what it is Modernization in Armed Forces, is the one who will hinder your modernization efforts let alone they had a drive to support your own arms industries. TNI actually going a painful modernization in mind (doctrine, training, syllabus and etc) and institutional and reform during 1998 through 2005 era and continued till now, and our armed forces survived from the ordeal and revive with a new drive. In line with the reform for your army, set up and arrange the basic needs to revive your arms industries. Don't aim high, set up with the most basic needs. First, create an institution to do research for what your armed forces needs (like DARPA in US, ADD in South Korea, Balitbang Kemhan Indonesia and other) within your Ministry of Defense in which until today i can't see such institution in Ph. And then, you can mapping what actually Ph. needed the most and then it's up to the government to exploit such niche from your own industries. Indonesia arms industries basically starting low, with just creating small arms and explosive ordnance, and then we producing mortar and other high caliber weapons, and then we touch Armored Vehicle niche and such.

For our Aircraft industry, that was our strong point from beginning, because our drive to manufacturing aircraft in which utilized some of the Dutch trained engineer and mechanics.

 

[Zero_wing]

The first thing to move is basically step up from the very basic thing. And what it is? Doing some major overhaul and reform for your Armed Forces from within. PA still had a lot of old bras who basically got promotion without merit and doesn't know what it is Modernization in Armed Forces, is the one who will hinder your modernization efforts let alone they had a drive to support your own arms industries. TNI actually going a painful modernization in mind (doctrine, training, syllabus and etc) and institutional and reform during 1998 through 2005 era and continued till now, and our armed forces survived from the ordeal and revive with a new drive. In line with the reform for your army, set up and arrange the basic needs to revive your arms industries. Don't aim high, set up with the most basic needs. First, create an institution to do research for what your armed forces needs (like DARPA in US, ADD in South Korea, Balitbang Kemhan Indonesia and other) within your Ministry of Defense in which until today i can't see such institution in Ph. And then, you can mapping what actually Ph. needed the most and then it's up to the government to exploit such niche from your own industries. Indonesia arms industries basically starting low, with just creating small arms and explosive ordnance, and then we producing mortar and other high caliber weapons, and then we touch Armored Vehicle niche and such.

For our Aircraft industry, that was our strong point from beginning, because our drive to manufacturing aircraft in which utilized some of the Dutch trained engineer and mechanics.

Well you're comparing apples and oranges the Philippines is different from Indonesia you started and continued while we started and the past administration neglected it because of lack of foresight, corruption etc now it's far better the modernization is not just on assets it's also in doctrine minor improvements based on the need of the military again the reforms does not come from the Military leadership alone it comes from the civilian administration and its slow i know but then again its progress compare to past years we completed most of the projects in this administration than previous administration and that is saying a lot a few year back i would agree with you but know its slow progress but again its far better than nothing.

 

[Nike]

Well you're comparing apples and oranges the Philippines is different from Indonesia you started and continued while we started and the past administration neglected it because of lack of foresight, corruption etc now it's far better the modernization is not just on assets it's also in doctrine minor improvements based on the need of the military again the reforms does not come from the Military leadership alone it comes from the civilian administration and its slow i know but then again its progress compare to past years we completed most of the projects in this administration than previous administration and that is saying a lot a few year back i would agree with you but know its slow progress but again its far better than nothing.

That's why i called the basic fundamental is reformation, especially in your politics sector and military

 

[Zero_wing]

That's why i called the basic fundamental is reformation, especially in your politics sector and military

Well you said we are not doing that but we are slowly the only fear i have right know is the election especially if binay wins

 

[Cossack25A1]

Well you said we are not doing that but we are slowly the only fear i have right know is the election especially if binay wins

We had a lot of old weapons projects (though most are land vehicles) which ended up being disregarded due to economics, politics and corruption. Brain drain is also an issue as more professionals go out of the country.

The PH local arms industry needs a total overhaul then modernization, and government support.

 

[Aepsilons]

We had a lot of old weapons projects (though most are land vehicles) which ended up being disregarded due to economics, politics and corruption. Brain drain is also an issue as more professionals go out of the country.

The PH local arms industry needs a total overhaul then modernization, and government support.

I think there is reverse brain drain actually. I notice many more Pinoy expats returning home to their country to start businesses in manufacturing as well as tourism. There is actually a movement in the Pinoy community here in Japan where well established Filipinjin are setting up businesses in Manila, Bacolod, Davao, Talibon, Cebu, Pagodpod , Iloilo and gaining investments from Nihonjin business folk. Actually one of the major Japanese manufacturing firms operating in Manila are run by Japanese trained and indoctrinated Filipinjin who lived in Japan. Not withstanding more Filipinjin who live in Japan return home to their country every year to buy more real estate and really help revitalize their communities.

I think to a certain degree that also is true for Filipinjin bases in the US, but limited since Pinoys in the US assume American identity and nationality. I think in regards to Filipinjin in Japan ; they really are patriots to their country. Usually they will work in Japan for 10-15 years and return back to their country with their savings and start up businesses in the Japanese fashion and standard. Take for example Canon Philippines; one of the managing directors is actually a Pinoy who was educated in Tokyo, fluent in Japanese and have befriended many Keidenren. I should know, I know the guy.

Btw there is a hug Pinoy community in Japan; nearly 300,000 of you guys live and work in Japan. Many of these return every year to develop and build.

 

[Nike]

We had a lot of old weapons projects (though most are land vehicles) which ended up being disregarded due to economics, politics and corruption. Brain drain is also an issue as more professionals go out of the country.

The PH local arms industry needs a total overhaul then modernization, and government support.

I am sure, Philippine had their own military Rocket and Aviation project during 1970 era. I have several photos and documents about them.


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Actually Ph needs learn one or two things from Myanmar and Vietnam on how to build their defense industry from the scratch and nurturing them.

 

[Cossack25A1]

I am sure, Philippine had their own military Rocket and Aviation project during 1970 era. I have several photos and documents about them.


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Actually Ph needs learn one or two things from Myanmar and Vietnam on how to build their defense industry from the scratch and nurturing them.

There was, but unfortunatel, no one knows what happened to those rockets after former president Marcos was ousted in 1986.

 

[Zero_wing]

I am sure, Philippine had their own military Rocket and Aviation project during 1970 era. I have several photos and documents about them.


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Actually Ph needs learn one or two things from Myanmar and Vietnam on how to build their defense industry from the scratch and nurturing them.

Don't worry we will but again we are going it slow

 

[Reashot Xigwin]

Precursor:

Malaysia, Indonesia pace
ASEAN military industry
Novan Iman Santosa, The Jakarta Post, Jakarta | World | Thu, May 19 2011, 7:00 AM

World News
Malaysia and Indonesia have agreed to promote the creation of the ASEAN Defense Industry Collaboration (ADIC) to tap massive military spending in the region.

The commitment was voiced by visiting Malaysian Defense Minister Ahmad Zahid Hamidi and his Indonesian counterpart, Purnomo Yusgiantoro, on Wednesday.

Both ministers spoke at a seminar on the revitalization of the Indonesian defense industry, jointly organized by the Indonesian Defense Ministry, Antara news agency and Sinar Harapan, an evening newspaper, in Central Jakarta.

Purnomo said military spending by the Association of Southeast Asian Nations (ASEAN) members reached US$25 billion per year.

“Currently, there are four ASEAN members with established defense industries: Thailand, Malaysia, Singapore and Indonesia,” he told the seminar.

“However, the region is still a net importer of weapons and systems.”

Purnomo, who envisioned Indonesia being self-sufficient by 2030, said in the past two decades local defense industries had progressed considerably including in the aviation, maritime, weaponry, automotive and information and communications technology (ICT) sectors.

“We will discuss the issue further at the ADMM tomorrow [Thursday],” he said, adding that the Malaysian defense minister was responsible for preparing the concept.

Zahid, who is in Jakarta for the fifth ASEAN Defense Minister Meeting (ADMM), said Purnomo was a strong supporter of ADIC.

The Malaysian minister said there already was inter-ASEAN defense trade, as Singapore exported rocket launchers to Brunei, landing platform docks to Thailand and artillery to Indonesia.

Additionally, Malaysia exported military trucks to Brunei and Indonesia exported CN-235 aircraft to Malaysia and rifles to the Philippines.

Malaysia is also buying the Anoa 6x6 armored personnel carrier from Indonesia’s state arms-maker PT Pindad for its peacekeeping operations in Lebanon.

Zahid urged ASEAN defense companies to develop niche capabilities, enter the global supply chain and engage in offset programs.

“Malaysia has bought CN-235 aircraft and Super Puma helicopters from Indonesia, who promised to buy 2,000 Proton Saga sedans.

However, in the end Indonesia had only bought 200 Proton Sagas,” he said.

“We will buy from Indonesia, but what will Indonesia buy from Malaysia at the same value?”

Defense offset could include a country purchasing a weapon system on the condition that the seller buys something from the buyer.

Other offsets includes the buyer’s involvement in producing parts of the weapon system it buys, guaranteeing a transfer of technology.

Zahid said there were a number of challenges to achieving defense industry collaboration.

He said ASEAN countries had to acknowledge common threats and challenges and agree on a degree of conformity to operate in uniformity, requiring common production standards in equipment and systems.

Zahid also suggested the production be exported to other countries and that the ASEAN collaboration plan follow Indonesia’s plan to be self-sufficient by 2030.

“Hopefully, by that time, we can reduce the imports by half to $12.5 billion,” he said.

- See more at: Malaysia, Indonesia pace ASEAN military industry | The Jakarta Post

The ADIC (ASEAN Defense Industry Collaboration.)
http://csis.org/files/publication/110907_DIIG_Current_Issues_25_ASEAN.pdf