Indonesia Defence Forum

[¿Por qué?]

We don't have money to introduce 2 platforms AND maintain the F-16's.

We have to choose! Not both!

if it happens will be the showroom Airforce

Alright, alright. No Rafale then

Here we go :

Sq.1 Pontianak : Hawk
Sq.3 Madiun : F-16 EDA
Sq.11 Makassar : Sukhoi
Sq.12 Pekanbaru : Hawk
Sq.14 Madiun : EF Typhoon
Sq.15 Madiun : T-50
Sq.16 Pekanbaru : F-16 EDA

This looks more exotic than the one with Rafale

 

[Gen3115]

Wasn't there a couple of P-8's landing and refueling here? @Gen3115

Pretty much you could find P-8's landing at either Halim or Juanda a number of times a year. But I don't think it is as frequent as if we have a basing agreement with the US like Singapore does. C-17's and P-8's are not an uncommon sight here, if we do sign an agreement with the US I think you'd see them a lot more and despite them already having agreements with Singapore and the Philippines, Indonesia probably has some of better positioned airbases they could fly out of (Natuna, Pontianak).

 

[Kansel]

Yoo Sukhoi kok main di phase out aja, wong petingginya masih ngotot itu barang kok

 

[umigami]

Yoo Sukhoi kok main di phase out aja, wong petingginya masih ngotot itu barang kok

Petinggi AU, dephan, atau apa gan?
Ngotot yang sekarang atau nambah lagi?

 

[Nike]

Defense minister visits Austria to intensify bilateral cooperation
21st Oct 2020 12:30

London (ANTARA) - Defense Minister Prabowo Subianto embarked on a visit to Vienna, Austria, to hold a meeting with his Austrian counterpart, Klaudia Tanner, at the office of the Austrian Ministry of Defense on Tuesday.

The agenda of Subianto’s visit was to boost bilateral cooperation in the defense sector between both nations, the Indonesian Embassy in Vienna noted in a statement received by Antara London on Wednesday.

A military honor ceremony by the Austrian Armed Forces was held to greet Subianto, who was accompanied by Indonesian Ambassador to Austria Dr Darmansjah Djumala, member of the Indonesian House of Representatives' Commission I Sugiono, and Defense Attaché of the Indonesian Embassy in Berlin Col. Kav. Rio Hendrawan Alin Putra.

During the hour-long meeting, both defense ministers discussed opportunities to boost bilateral cooperation in the field of defense.

Cooperation opportunities can be evaluated further by establishing a memorandum of understanding (MoU) as an umbrella agreement for defense cooperation between both nations in future.

Apart from discussing defense issues, both ministers also shared information on developments in the handling of the COVID-19 pandemic in their respective countries.

Retired General Subianto had earlier paid a five-day visit to the US, starting Oct 15, 2020, his first since the US lifted its entry ban on him.

Subianto visited the United States at the US government’s invitation to discuss ways to bolster defense cooperation between the two countries.

A senior US defense official strongly defended the decision to welcome Prabowo to the Pentagon, where he met Defense Secretary Mark Esper, Reuters reported.

“Minister Prabowo is the appointed minister of defense of the now twice duly elected president of Indonesia, which is the third-largest democracy in the world,” the official stated while speaking on condition of anonymity.

“He is our counterpart of a very important partnership, and it is important that we engage with him and treat him as a partner,” the official was quoted as saying by Reuters.

Related news: Prabowo begins first US visit after lifting of entry ban
Related news: RI-Sweden cooperation to have impact on defense industry development
Related news: DPR's Commission I approves bill on defense cooperation with Sweden
Translated by: Zeynita Gibbons, Fardah
Editor: Sri Haryati

• https://en.antaranews.com/news/1594...ts-austria-to-intensify-bilateral-cooperation

 

[Chestnut]

Yoo Sukhoi kok main di phase out aja, wong petingginya masih ngotot itu barang kok

Alright, alright. No Rafale then

Here we go :

Sq.1 Pontianak : Hawk
Sq.3 Madiun : F-16 EDA
Sq.11 Makassar : Sukhoi
Sq.12 Pekanbaru : Hawk
Sq.14 Madiun : EF Typhoon
Sq.15 Madiun : T-50
Sq.16 Pekanbaru : F-16 EDA

This looks more exotic than the one with Rafale

Again, you only get to pick 2. We can not afford to EFFECTIVELY OPERATE more than 2 airframe types.

Either F-16 + Flanker, F-16 + EF, or F-16 + Rafale.

They're not going to retire the F-16 since it's the main workhorse of the fleet.

 

[Gundala]

Here we go :

Sq.1 Pontianak : Hawk
Sq.3 Madiun : F-16 EDA
Sq.11 Makassar : Sukhoi
Sq.12 Pekanbaru : Hawk
Sq.14 Madiun : EF Typhoon
Sq.15 Madiun : T-50
Sq.16 Pekanbaru : F-16 EDA

The original plan was (Pak Yuyu era):

Pontianak : Hawk (all of them)
Madiun : F16, T-50, SU35
Makassar : Sukhoi
Pekanbaru : F16
Kupang : F16V (1 ska)
Biak : TBA (most likely F16 from madiun will move here while the new F16V-1 SKA will replace it)

Replacing SU35 with EF will put her in Madiun. For the F16V its already clear where AU want to put them. Now the tricky part is the Rafale, if they meant to be an alternative for F16V then Kupang & Madiun will have it. Then again the escalation of threat has changed, idk if they are going to new strategic fighter placement plan or not. What I know for sure is Java will have the most complete type of fighter (TT/TS).

Now if we get the EF it would be foolish to get Rafale too, so most likely its going to be EF & F16
If we go with 32+ or 24+ (the was a statement that we going to reduce the plan for viper to 24) Rafale then it most likely be only Rafale.
The F35 backlog (if we order now) was at 2028+ where the F16V was at 2026+, Rafale would be 2024+ and EF to reach IOC/FOC stage if we decided to upgrade would be 2022+. Strategically you guys can do the math in time table manner on how we going to tackle this readyness state. I believe this is where the Hawk life extension program was announced as a stop gap (hawk expected to be retired in 2024-2025). Tho Im pretty sure only handfull of Hawk will enter the extension program, my guess its around 12-14 Fighters or so.

French has been trying to offload their old Rafale to keep the production line open for years to come and to welcome their new F4 version (upgraded avionic & new engine). And if we decided to get a mix of used and new one it would be an advantage for them in this race as it might be the fastest to reach IOC/FOC stage, but it might break our bank in the process

So what is going to be? Lets wait sambil ngupi

 

[Chestnut]

The original plan was (Pak Yuyu era):

Pontianak : Hawk (all of them)
Madiun : F16, T-50, SU35
Makassar : Sukhoi
Pekanbaru : F16
Kupang : F16V (1 ska)
Biak : TBA (most likely F16 from madiun will move here while the new F16V-1 SKA will replace it)

Replacing SU35 with EF will put her in Madiun. For the F16V its already clear where AU want to put them. Now the tricky part is the Rafale, if they meant to be an alternative for F16V then Kupang & Madiun will have it. Then again the escalation of threat has changed, idk if they are going to new strategic fighter placement plan or not. What I know for sure is Java will have the most complete type of fighter (TT/TS).

Now if we get the EF it would be foolish to get Rafale too, so most likely its going to be EF & F16
If we go with 32+ or 24+ (the was a statement that we going to reduce the plan for viper to 24) Rafale then it most likely be only Rafale.
The F35 backlog (if we order now) was at 2028+ where the F16V was at 2026+, Rafale would be 2024+ and EF to reach IOC/FOC stage if we decided to upgrade would be 2022+. Strategically you guys can do the math in time table manner on how we going to tackle this readyness state. I believe this is where the Hawk life extension program was announced as a stop gap (hawk expected to be retired in 2024-2025). Tho Im pretty sure only handfull of Hawk will enter the extension program, my guess its around 12-14 Fighters or so.

French has been trying to offload their old Rafale to keep the production line open for years to come and to welcome their new F4 version (upgraded avionic & new engine). And if we decided to get a mix of used and new one it would be an advantage for them in this race as it might be the fastest to reach IOC/FOC stage, but it might break our bank in the process

So what is going to be? Lets wait sambil ngupi

I actually don't think an EF + Rafale can happen. The Tranche 1 EF's operational costs are disproportionately high that it would just kill the budget to operate the F-16's, which the Air Force will NOT be happy about. It's either the EF or Rafale at this point.

Dassault has an advantage since they can offer up ex-Armee de l'Air Rafales as an interim/learning curve solution until the new production Rafales come off the line. Whilst Airbus can really only offer spare production to the EF and more offset contracts to PTDI for their other products.

 

[Nike]

I actually don't think an EF + Rafale can happen. The Tranche 1 EF's operational costs are disproportionately high that it would just kill the budget to operate the F-16's, which the Air Force will NOT be happy about. It's either the EF or Rafale at this point.

Dassault has an advantage since they can offer up ex-Armee de l'Air Rafales as an interim/learning curve solution until the new production Rafales come off the line. Whilst Airbus can really only offer spare production to the EF and more offset contracts to PTDI for their other products.

They will taking the offer from anybody though, but for sure EDA F-16 is on the table again to fulfill interim program. The Indonesian Air Force need more aircraft platform then ever right now, including trainer aircraft and supporting lift aircraft.

 

[Chestnut]

The Indonesian Air Force need more aircraft platform then ever right now, including trainer aircraft and supporting lift aircraft.

Well with this logic, having half of your fleet unable to fly due to not having the money to operate them also stops you from achieving that goal.

 

[Aghost132483]

korean daejicar promoter 4x4 apc .
View attachment 681264
View attachment 681265
i dont like this kind of procurement at all to be honest ......

Me too, I feel sick see this when our president instruct to use our domestic product but our Police force keep buying imported stuff, this instruction not only for Defense Ministry, the one who keep ordering like this should be put on investigation like Air force helicopter procurement some times ago.

 

[Nike]

Well with this logic, having half of your fleet unable to fly due to not having the money to operate them also stops you from achieving that goal.

Don't think so, there is request to increase operational cost for the Airforce especially

Sebuah pondok yang diintai sebagai lokasi pembuatan virus berbahaya diledakkan dalam latihan Pertahanan Pangkalan Udara El Tari di Kupang, NTT, Selasa (20/10/2020). Latihan rutin itu dilakukan untuk melatih kesiapsiagaan personel TNI AU dan Paskhas dalam hal pengamanan kawasan vital negara khususnya di lingkup Lanud EL Tari dan Bandara El Tari Kupang. ANTARA FOTO/Kornelis Kaha/wsj.

Seorang anggota Pasukan Khas (Paskhas) TNI AU mengintai musuh di tengah tebalnya granat asap dalam latihan Pertahanan Pangkalan Udara El Tari di Kupang, NTT, Selasa (20/10/2020). Latihan rutin itu dilakukan untuk melatih kesiapsiagaan personel TNI AU dan Paskhas dalam hal pengamanan kawasan vital negara khususnya di lingkup Lanud EL Tari dan Bandara El Tari Kupang. ANTARA FOTO/Kornelis Kaha/wsj.

Dua anggota Pasukan Khas (Paskhas TNI AU) mengamankan seorang terduga pelaku terorisme dalam latihan Pertahanan Pangkalan Udara El Tari di Kupang, NTT, Selasa (20/10/2020). Latihan rutin itu dilakukan untuk melatih kesiapsiagaan personel TNI AU dan Paskhas dalam hal pengamanan kawasan vital negara khususnya di lingkup Lanud EL Tari dan Bandara El Tari Kupang. ANTARA FOTO/Kornelis Kaha/wsj.

 

[HellFireIndo]

Don't think so, there is request to increase operational cost for the Airforce especially

Sebuah pondok yang diintai sebagai lokasi pembuatan virus berbahaya diledakkan dalam latihan Pertahanan Pangkalan Udara El Tari di Kupang, NTT, Selasa (20/10/2020). Latihan rutin itu dilakukan untuk melatih kesiapsiagaan personel TNI AU dan Paskhas dalam hal pengamanan kawasan vital negara khususnya di lingkup Lanud EL Tari dan Bandara El Tari Kupang. ANTARA FOTO/Kornelis Kaha/wsj.

Seorang anggota Pasukan Khas (Paskhas) TNI AU mengintai musuh di tengah tebalnya granat asap dalam latihan Pertahanan Pangkalan Udara El Tari di Kupang, NTT, Selasa (20/10/2020). Latihan rutin itu dilakukan untuk melatih kesiapsiagaan personel TNI AU dan Paskhas dalam hal pengamanan kawasan vital negara khususnya di lingkup Lanud EL Tari dan Bandara El Tari Kupang. ANTARA FOTO/Kornelis Kaha/wsj.

Dua anggota Pasukan Khas (Paskhas TNI AU) mengamankan seorang terduga pelaku terorisme dalam latihan Pertahanan Pangkalan Udara El Tari di Kupang, NTT, Selasa (20/10/2020). Latihan rutin itu dilakukan untuk melatih kesiapsiagaan personel TNI AU dan Paskhas dalam hal pengamanan kawasan vital negara khususnya di lingkup Lanud EL Tari dan Bandara El Tari Kupang. ANTARA FOTO/Kornelis Kaha/wsj.

IMO if they really wanna do this scenario, they should've been wearing Hazmat/Nubika suits

 

[Chestnut]

Don't think so, there is request to increase operational cost for the Airforce especially

I'll see when I believe it. You're going to need an Air Force defense budget larger than Singapore's to do that. Which right now I very much doubt when our entire budget is still lower than their overall budget.

 

[Nike]

I'll see when I believe it. You're going to need an Air Force defense budget larger than Singapore's to do that. Which right now I very much doubt when our entire budget is still lower than their overall budget.

Still need time though for those would be assets to come in the first place (even the most immediate one still need at least three to four years) and for Indonesia to immediately need additional operational budget is out of today concern, so it kinda moot to be talked for today conditions. What we need and i am rather kinda put more concern is the human resources and necessary infrastructure needed. Even our training regime only resulting around dozen pilots per year

IMO if they really wanna do this scenario, they should've been wearing Hazmat/Nubika suits

don't know, but those training more for photo shoot session i think