Indonesia Defence Forum

[Aghost132483]

if we need even more badak powerhouse armored vehicle , the Tugasanda Turangga actually provide more horsepower and torque rather than the komodo .

View attachment 678623
View attachment 678624

400hp / 287kw / with torque over 1952nm at 1100rpm , that thing is comparable to the US Cougar MRAP .

https://www.facebook.com/video.php?v=760867021313010

the SAR version use mitsubishi triton as its platform , so it has less power than the military version used by paskhas which take Ford F550 as its platform .​

What the..... why the hell Local Search and Rescue unit need armored vehicle?

 

[Chestnut]

We also have to remember one thing. This UAV/drone is also projected to carry electronic warfare jammers, instead of an explosive warhead.

Several days ago, the Italian Leonardo claimed to have successfully conducted a testing by placing their EW called BriteClouds, which contain electronic warfare jammers, inside the drones. The drones were able to launch a mock non-kinetic attack on radars acting as surrogates for an enemy integrated air defense network.

Placing the jammers inside drones offers the ability to help space them out for optimal coverage across a wide area.

The entire swarm provides immense additional flexibility by being able to rapidly shift its focus from one area to another to respond to new developments in the battlespace.

Above all else, they allow BriteCloud to employ its bag of tricks over longer periods of time and even execute multiple electronic attacks instead of just one.

This EW drones will act as the first layer of attack. Even IADS and CEC might not be enough. The hunter will become the hunted.

View attachment 678630

An IADS doesn't just include GBAD and GCI assets, but rather those 2 in conjunction with CAP aircraft, AWACS, EW aircraft/ground assets, A2AR Tankers, Satellites, Naval AAW, Naval EW, and a plethora of other factors.

Furthermore if you have a strong EW capability in the form of either ground-based EW or an EW aircraft such as a Growler or a Compass Call you would still theoretically be able to defeat drone swarms.

Not to mention with strong research into anti-drone weapons such as portable jammers and vehicle mounted lasers it's high time the TNI takes a look into these capabilities given how Armenia is being utterly smashed by it's drone equipped peer.

 

[Raduga]

What the..... why the hell Local Search and Rescue unit need armored vehicle?

that i dont know why ..... but we aren't the first

 

[Ravager]

An IADS doesn't just include GBAD and GCI assets, but rather those 2 in conjunction with CAP aircraft, AWACS, EW aircraft/ground assets, A2AR Tankers, Satellites, Naval AAW, Naval EW, and a plethora of other factors.

Furthermore if you have a strong EW capability in the form of either ground-based EW or an EW aircraft such as a Growler or a Compass Call you would still theoretically be able to defeat drone swarms.

Not to mention with strong research into anti-drone weapons such as portable jammers and vehicle mounted lasers it's high time the TNI takes a look into these capabilities given how Armenia is being utterly smashed by it's drone equipped peer.

Somehow some people are still refusing that we are very lacking in the EW warfare experiences and equipments . They think Drone warfare were simply a case of flooding the RF frequency and blinding the enemy radar ...
In case some people doesn't notice ... The armenian do have a comprehensive AA networks missiles and AA gun with intensive radar Coverage . The Azeris ( in these cases were the israelis and Turks advisor goes a long mile to trains them in the art of drone warfare )
But i have to hand it to the turks .... They go head to head with the chinese/russia and later on the french in Libya . Butting some head with russia in syria ... all in EW warfare covert or no covert enggagement . And to think they only starting the industry from the late 80 ... That was an achievment.

 

[Indos]

What the..... why the hell Local Search and Rescue unit need armored vehicle?

More protection during forest fire I believe, both from the fire and falling tree

 

[Nike]

Still lot of illegal weapons at civillian janda

 

[deadlast]

https://www.facebook.com/bpanggabean1/posts/3757989667563221

Anoa with EOS R400 RWS

 

[Logam42]

Is this thing bulletproof?
Wait why BNPB need armored vehicle?

What the..... why the hell Local Search and Rescue unit need armored vehicle?

Speculation:

1. Military Mindset: BNPB has always been headed by military trained people. The reason is due to how much disaster response has traditionally been done by the military. Their standards of personnel safety might subconsciously still be at military level and bleeds into their procurement decisions. Result is... overkill.
2. BNPB is secretly informal Komcad. I know that front-line BNPB personnel need to maintain high level of fitness as well. So maybe the military see it as an informal extension of TNI and want to make sure it is well equipped if the need ever arises.
3. 'Buy Indo' Lobby: Maybe BNPB didn't want to look like ISIS wannabe's and rely on Toyotas, and Turangga was a good 'domestic' buy.
4. 'I LIKE BIG JEEPS AND I CANNOT LIE', big shiny toy and the finance ministry was willing to throw them a bone

https://www.facebook.com/bpanggabean1/posts/3757989667563221

Anoa with EOS R400 RWS

Tulang Prabowo and Tulang Jokowi?

Can someone explain this?

 

[HellFireIndo]

Speculation:

1. Military Mindset: BNPB has always been headed by military trained people. The reason is due to how much disaster response has traditionally been done by the military. Their standards of personnel safety might subconsciously still be at military level and bleeds into their procurement decisions. Result is... overkill.
2. BNPB is secretly informal Komcad. I know that front-line BNPB personnel need to maintain high level of fitness as well. So maybe the military see it as an informal extension of TNI and want to make sure it is well equipped if the need ever arises.
3. 'Buy Indo' Lobby: Maybe BNPB didn't want to look like ISIS wannabe's and rely on Toyotas, and Turangga was a good 'domestic' buy.
4. 'I LIKE BIG JEEPS AND I CANNOT LIE', big shiny toy and the finance ministry was willing to throw them a bone

Tulang Prabowo and Tulang Jokowi?

Can someone explain this?

Tulang means "Pak" in Batak language

 

[NEKONEKO]

Tulang means "Pak" in Batak language

Without Bahasa Indonesia as lingua franca we won't understand each other.

Tak kirain singkatan dari "tinjauan ulang" :v

 

[Kansel]

Tulang means "Pak" in Batak language

No its not "pak", its paman/om

 

[Nike]

https://www.facebook.com/bpanggabean1/posts/3757989667563221

Anoa with EOS R400 RWS

Defence - Electro Optic Systems

When the first shot matters, EOS’ innovative on-the-move firepower systems give the tactical edge for success on the modern battlefield.

www.eos-aus.com

They can launch Javelin ATGM

 

[Kansel]

US lets Indonesia’s Prabowo off the hook
US lifts rights-related visa ban on Indonesia’s defense minister in a strategic mending of fences
By JOHN MCBETH
OCTOBER 12, 2020


Indonesian Defense Minister Prabowo Subianto takes aim in a file photo. Image: Facebook
JAKARTA – The United States has after two decades finally issued a visa to Indonesian Defense Minister Prabowo Subianto, a diplomatic move that aims to mend fences as Washington seeks to build a regional coalition of like-minded allies against China.

Currently the front-runner in the 2024 presidential race, Prabowo had in effect been blacklisted since taking command responsibility for the kidnapping and torture of pro-democracy activists in the dying days of the late president Suharto’s New Order regime.

The rehabilitation of the retired special forces general has been pushed by two key figures in US President Donald Trump’s administration, Secretary of State Mike Pompeo and Defense Secretary Mark Esper, in one of their last acts before the forthcoming US presidential election after which they may both be out of a job.

Esper, who has developed a warm relationship with Prabowo, had announced last July his intention to visit Indonesia, but that was recently replaced by an invitation for the minister to travel to Washington instead for scheduled bilateral talks this week on future defense cooperation.

Prabowo has prospered since President Joko Widodo surprisingly brought his presidential rival into the cabinet after last year’s bitterly fought campaign, which saw the Great Indonesia Movement Party (Gerindra) leader lose by 10% of the vote.



According to government sources, Widodo’s senior political adviser, Maritime Coordinating Minister Luhut Panjaitan, told Pompeo during a meeting after Prabowo’s appointment that Indonesia would never buy US military hardware as long as the visa ban remained in place.

But that clearly comes second to Washington’s efforts to get Indonesia and other key members of the Association of Southeast Asia Nations (ASEAN) to come on board in Washington’s growing struggle for power and influence with China in the South China Sea and beyond.


Members of Indonesia's special forces Kopassus march during celebrations for the 72nd anniversary of the Indonesia military, in Cilegon, Banten province, October 5, 2017. Photo: Reuters/Beawiharta
Members of Indonesia’s special forces Kopassus march during celebrations for the 72nd anniversary of the Indonesia military, in Cilegon, Banten province, October 5, 2017. Photo: Twitter
“There’s a lot of pressure on Indonesia to take sides,” says one regional affairs specialist, noting that Esper heads at least one part of the Trump administration that appears to be functioning normally. “The Americans have really been pushing it.”

Interestingly, as Prabowo headed for Washington, Panjaitan was meeting with Chinese Foreign Minister Wang Yi in Yunan for discussions on trade and investment, health, education and research and the development of a Covid-19 vaccine.

Indonesian Foreign Minister Retno Marsudi last month called on the US and China not to trap Indonesia in their rivalry. A day later, Pompeo urged ASEAN governments to cut ties to firms involved with Beijing’s military buildup of islands and features it controls in the South China Sea.


Citing confidentiality issues, the US State Department has never disclosed whether Prabowo has been on an official blacklist. But it is understood the word was passed through back channels advising him not to apply for a visa to avoid embarrassment.

Then Suharto’s ambitious son-in-law, which allowed him to behave in a way that earned him a host of enemies among superior officers, Prabowo had long been under a cloud over alleged human-rights abuses in East Timor, when he served there in the early 1980s.

Most of the accusations centered specifically on the massacre of 55 people on Mount Bibileo, northwest of Viqueque, in September 1983, reportedly perpetrated by troops under Prabowo’s command during a sustained counterinsurgency campaign against Falintil guerrillas.

Over subsequent years, he rose swiftly through the ranks on a career path that many thought marked him as a future president. But all that fell apart with the 1997-98 financial crisis and the subsequent downfall of the New Order government.

A day after Suharto’s resignation on May 21, 1998, Prabowo barged into the office of interim president B J Habibie demanding the removal of his bitter rival, armed forces chief General Wiranto, and other changes in the military hierarchy he claimed were part of a deal he had reached with Suharto’s successor.


He has always denied claims his actions at the time amounted to a coup attempt. In fact, in later years he bristled at suggestions that his inability to secure a US visa put him on the same level as Major-General Manoon Roopkachorn, the leader of Thailand’s abortive 1981 and 1985 coups.



Indonesian President Joko Widodo (right) shakes hands with Gerindra Party chairman Prabowo Subianto after Widodo was sworn in for a second term as president, October 20, 2019. Photo: AFP/Achmad Ibrahim/Pool
Wiranto has always claimed he saved Indonesia’s democracy, but neither he nor Prabowo, then the head of the 25,000-man Army Strategic Command (Kostrad), had the support that would have been required to avoid a bloody standoff and a drift into civil war.

Accused of insubordination and the abduction and mistreatment of political activists, none of whom presented a threat to the Suharto government, Prabowo was subsequently dismissed from the army by a military honor council and went into several years of self-exile in Jordan.

Although he accepted responsibility for the actions of the so-called Team Rose, the special forces unit that carried out the abductions, Prabowo has always denied he exceeded his orders and says the kidnappings were intended to put a stop to a feared bombing campaign by radical elements in the protest movement.

The real motivation, however, is believed to have been an effort to head off demonstrations disrupting the March 1998 People’s Legislative Assembly (MPR) session, which rubber-stamped a futile, short-lived extension to Suharto’s 32-year rule.


Former student leader Pius Listrilunang, the first to be abducted and the last to be released, says no more than eight other activists were ever in Team Rose’s custody and that all were released during his eight-week confinement at a special forces base in South Jakarta.

He has been unable to explain, however, what happened to three of the activists who disappeared after initially gaining their freedom. They are among nine other prisoners still listed as missing after apparently being seized by Jakarta Regional Command operatives about the same time.

Listrilunang and Prabowo reconciled at a little-known meeting in Kuala Lumpur in 1999, where the general apologized for his mistreatment. The former detainee joined Gerindra when it was formed in 2008 and later served two terms in the House of Representatives between 2009 and 2019.

In 2000, the State Department provided no explanation for denying Prabowo a visa to attend his son’s graduation in Boston. But he blamed it on allegations, again unproven, that he instigated the riots that killed as many as 1,000 people in the days leading up to Suharto’s resignation, many of them in burned-out supermarkets.


Indonesian Pro-reform activists, some in masks resembling those worn by their kidnappers, gather at Jakarta's international airport 19 July with a wanted sign for General Prabowo Subianto, the former commander of the special forces and a son-in-law of ex-president Suharto. The activists were welcoming back kidnap victim Pius Lustrilanang from the Netherlands where he fled in fear of his life after exposing security forces involvement in the abduction of 23 activists, 14 of whom are still missing. Prabowo has said he will accept responsibility for the abductions. AFP PHOTO. Dadang Tri. . / AFP PHOTO / DADANG TRI
Indonesian activists at Jakarta’s international airport with a wanted sign for General Prabowo Subianto in a file photo. Image: AFP/Dadang Tri
Since his return to political life, Prabowo has in essence played by the rules, though some of his behavior and statements during one vice-presidential and two presidential campaigns have been seized on by his critics as evidence that he is a threat to democratic rule.

Certainly, his alignment with conservative Muslim groups in last year’s presidential election demonstrated once again the lengths he is prepared to go to for political expediency. His initial refusal to accept the result led to several days of riots on Jakarta streets.

By bringing Prabowo into his government, Widodo has cleared the way for him to become the frontrunner for the presidency in 2024, perhaps an additional reason senior US officials are now taking a more pragmatic view of his visa situation.

But at home, the president stirred controversy recently by approving the appointment of two former Team Rose members to senior Defense Ministry posts. The disbanded unit’s commander, Chairawan Nusyirwan, who was also court-martialed in 1998, is one of Prabowo’s special assistants.

As defense minister, Prabowo has pointedly refused to consider procurement of a late-model version of the F-16 fighter, which makes up three of Indonesia’s frontline strike squadrons. The fighters are currently carrying out regular patrols over the Natuna islands, the scene of a spate of Chinese incursions.



Then Indonesian presidential candidate Prabowo Subianto speaks on the defending Islam in Jakarta, December 2, 2018. Photo: NurPhoto via AFP/Anton Raharjo
But with Widodo worried about drawing US sanctions, the minister has also deferred the planned purchase of new Russia-made Sukhoi-35 jets to add to the 15 Su-27/30s in the air force’s inventory, which Indonesia was forced to turn to during a 15-year US arms embargo imposed in response to rights abuses in East Timor.

Officials say Prabowo’s interest now is in buying Boeing’s twin-rotor CH-47 Chinooks. Given their value in natural disasters, the heavy-lift helicopters would make a lot more sense than Indonesia’s most recent purchase of eight AH-64 Apache gunships, a $700 million deal that only seemed designed to keep up with the neighbors.

Although he comes from strictly an army background, the Western-educated Prabowo is more of a strategic thinker than many of his predecessors, seeing upgraded equipment for the navy and air force as far more important to meeting Indonesia’s future defense needs.

US lets Indonesia's Prabowo off the hook - Asia Times

JAKARTA – The United States has after two decades finally issued a visa to Indonesian Defense Minister Prabowo Subianto, a diplomatic move that aims to

asiatimes.com

Rejecting viper for F35, he really wants to catch up against our neighbors.

As for Osprey, no need to worry about it anymore just wait for the LoA

 

[Chestnut]

Rejecting viper for F35, he really wants to catch up against our neighbors.

Without thinking of the issues surrounding a capability leap without the necessary experience.

 

[umigami]

US lets Indonesia’s Prabowo off the hook
US lifts rights-related visa ban on Indonesia’s defense minister in a strategic mending of fences
By JOHN MCBETH
OCTOBER 12, 2020


Indonesian Defense Minister Prabowo Subianto takes aim in a file photo. Image: Facebook
JAKARTA – The United States has after two decades finally issued a visa to Indonesian Defense Minister Prabowo Subianto, a diplomatic move that aims to mend fences as Washington seeks to build a regional coalition of like-minded allies against China.

Currently the front-runner in the 2024 presidential race, Prabowo had in effect been blacklisted since taking command responsibility for the kidnapping and torture of pro-democracy activists in the dying days of the late president Suharto’s New Order regime.

The rehabilitation of the retired special forces general has been pushed by two key figures in US President Donald Trump’s administration, Secretary of State Mike Pompeo and Defense Secretary Mark Esper, in one of their last acts before the forthcoming US presidential election after which they may both be out of a job.

Esper, who has developed a warm relationship with Prabowo, had announced last July his intention to visit Indonesia, but that was recently replaced by an invitation for the minister to travel to Washington instead for scheduled bilateral talks this week on future defense cooperation.

Prabowo has prospered since President Joko Widodo surprisingly brought his presidential rival into the cabinet after last year’s bitterly fought campaign, which saw the Great Indonesia Movement Party (Gerindra) leader lose by 10% of the vote.



According to government sources, Widodo’s senior political adviser, Maritime Coordinating Minister Luhut Panjaitan, told Pompeo during a meeting after Prabowo’s appointment that Indonesia would never buy US military hardware as long as the visa ban remained in place.

But that clearly comes second to Washington’s efforts to get Indonesia and other key members of the Association of Southeast Asia Nations (ASEAN) to come on board in Washington’s growing struggle for power and influence with China in the South China Sea and beyond.


Members of Indonesia's special forces Kopassus march during celebrations for the 72nd anniversary of the Indonesia military, in Cilegon, Banten province, October 5, 2017. Photo: Reuters/Beawiharta
Members of Indonesia’s special forces Kopassus march during celebrations for the 72nd anniversary of the Indonesia military, in Cilegon, Banten province, October 5, 2017. Photo: Twitter
“There’s a lot of pressure on Indonesia to take sides,” says one regional affairs specialist, noting that Esper heads at least one part of the Trump administration that appears to be functioning normally. “The Americans have really been pushing it.”

Interestingly, as Prabowo headed for Washington, Panjaitan was meeting with Chinese Foreign Minister Wang Yi in Yunan for discussions on trade and investment, health, education and research and the development of a Covid-19 vaccine.

Indonesian Foreign Minister Retno Marsudi last month called on the US and China not to trap Indonesia in their rivalry. A day later, Pompeo urged ASEAN governments to cut ties to firms involved with Beijing’s military buildup of islands and features it controls in the South China Sea.


Citing confidentiality issues, the US State Department has never disclosed whether Prabowo has been on an official blacklist. But it is understood the word was passed through back channels advising him not to apply for a visa to avoid embarrassment.

Then Suharto’s ambitious son-in-law, which allowed him to behave in a way that earned him a host of enemies among superior officers, Prabowo had long been under a cloud over alleged human-rights abuses in East Timor, when he served there in the early 1980s.

Most of the accusations centered specifically on the massacre of 55 people on Mount Bibileo, northwest of Viqueque, in September 1983, reportedly perpetrated by troops under Prabowo’s command during a sustained counterinsurgency campaign against Falintil guerrillas.

Over subsequent years, he rose swiftly through the ranks on a career path that many thought marked him as a future president. But all that fell apart with the 1997-98 financial crisis and the subsequent downfall of the New Order government.

A day after Suharto’s resignation on May 21, 1998, Prabowo barged into the office of interim president B J Habibie demanding the removal of his bitter rival, armed forces chief General Wiranto, and other changes in the military hierarchy he claimed were part of a deal he had reached with Suharto’s successor.


He has always denied claims his actions at the time amounted to a coup attempt. In fact, in later years he bristled at suggestions that his inability to secure a US visa put him on the same level as Major-General Manoon Roopkachorn, the leader of Thailand’s abortive 1981 and 1985 coups.



Indonesian President Joko Widodo (right) shakes hands with Gerindra Party chairman Prabowo Subianto after Widodo was sworn in for a second term as president, October 20, 2019. Photo: AFP/Achmad Ibrahim/Pool
Wiranto has always claimed he saved Indonesia’s democracy, but neither he nor Prabowo, then the head of the 25,000-man Army Strategic Command (Kostrad), had the support that would have been required to avoid a bloody standoff and a drift into civil war.

Accused of insubordination and the abduction and mistreatment of political activists, none of whom presented a threat to the Suharto government, Prabowo was subsequently dismissed from the army by a military honor council and went into several years of self-exile in Jordan.

Although he accepted responsibility for the actions of the so-called Team Rose, the special forces unit that carried out the abductions, Prabowo has always denied he exceeded his orders and says the kidnappings were intended to put a stop to a feared bombing campaign by radical elements in the protest movement.

The real motivation, however, is believed to have been an effort to head off demonstrations disrupting the March 1998 People’s Legislative Assembly (MPR) session, which rubber-stamped a futile, short-lived extension to Suharto’s 32-year rule.


Former student leader Pius Listrilunang, the first to be abducted and the last to be released, says no more than eight other activists were ever in Team Rose’s custody and that all were released during his eight-week confinement at a special forces base in South Jakarta.

He has been unable to explain, however, what happened to three of the activists who disappeared after initially gaining their freedom. They are among nine other prisoners still listed as missing after apparently being seized by Jakarta Regional Command operatives about the same time.

Listrilunang and Prabowo reconciled at a little-known meeting in Kuala Lumpur in 1999, where the general apologized for his mistreatment. The former detainee joined Gerindra when it was formed in 2008 and later served two terms in the House of Representatives between 2009 and 2019.

In 2000, the State Department provided no explanation for denying Prabowo a visa to attend his son’s graduation in Boston. But he blamed it on allegations, again unproven, that he instigated the riots that killed as many as 1,000 people in the days leading up to Suharto’s resignation, many of them in burned-out supermarkets.


Indonesian Pro-reform activists, some in masks resembling those worn by their kidnappers, gather at Jakarta's international airport 19 July with a wanted sign for General Prabowo Subianto, the former commander of the special forces and a son-in-law of ex-president Suharto. The activists were welcoming back kidnap victim Pius Lustrilanang from the Netherlands where he fled in fear of his life after exposing security forces involvement in the abduction of 23 activists, 14 of whom are still missing. Prabowo has said he will accept responsibility for the abductions. AFP PHOTO. Dadang Tri. . / AFP PHOTO / DADANG TRI
Indonesian activists at Jakarta’s international airport with a wanted sign for General Prabowo Subianto in a file photo. Image: AFP/Dadang Tri
Since his return to political life, Prabowo has in essence played by the rules, though some of his behavior and statements during one vice-presidential and two presidential campaigns have been seized on by his critics as evidence that he is a threat to democratic rule.

Certainly, his alignment with conservative Muslim groups in last year’s presidential election demonstrated once again the lengths he is prepared to go to for political expediency. His initial refusal to accept the result led to several days of riots on Jakarta streets.

By bringing Prabowo into his government, Widodo has cleared the way for him to become the frontrunner for the presidency in 2024, perhaps an additional reason senior US officials are now taking a more pragmatic view of his visa situation.

But at home, the president stirred controversy recently by approving the appointment of two former Team Rose members to senior Defense Ministry posts. The disbanded unit’s commander, Chairawan Nusyirwan, who was also court-martialed in 1998, is one of Prabowo’s special assistants.

As defense minister, Prabowo has pointedly refused to consider procurement of a late-model version of the F-16 fighter, which makes up three of Indonesia’s frontline strike squadrons. The fighters are currently carrying out regular patrols over the Natuna islands, the scene of a spate of Chinese incursions.



Then Indonesian presidential candidate Prabowo Subianto speaks on the defending Islam in Jakarta, December 2, 2018. Photo: NurPhoto via AFP/Anton Raharjo
But with Widodo worried about drawing US sanctions, the minister has also deferred the planned purchase of new Russia-made Sukhoi-35 jets to add to the 15 Su-27/30s in the air force’s inventory, which Indonesia was forced to turn to during a 15-year US arms embargo imposed in response to rights abuses in East Timor.

Officials say Prabowo’s interest now is in buying Boeing’s twin-rotor CH-47 Chinooks. Given their value in natural disasters, the heavy-lift helicopters would make a lot more sense than Indonesia’s most recent purchase of eight AH-64 Apache gunships, a $700 million deal that only seemed designed to keep up with the neighbors.

Although he comes from strictly an army background, the Western-educated Prabowo is more of a strategic thinker than many of his predecessors, seeing upgraded equipment for the navy and air force as far more important to meeting Indonesia’s future defense needs.

US lets Indonesia's Prabowo off the hook - Asia Times

JAKARTA – The United States has after two decades finally issued a visa to Indonesian Defense Minister Prabowo Subianto, a diplomatic move that aims to

asiatimes.com

Rejecting viper for F35, he really wants to catch up against our neighbors.

As for Osprey, no need to worry about it anymore just wait for the LoA

How many we will get?
If they're not even a skadron, then it isn't a good deal.