Indonesia Defence Forum

[barjo]

...Why????

I have no understanding why they are trying to make electric engine combat vehicle. We don't even have battery technology yet and as it stands its yet another logistical nightmare in the making.



A lot of rumours flying around but here's the super-summarized-facts only Chronology:

17/08/2019 Thursday, Malang:
Papuan Students & a Pro-Papuan Independence NGO hold a protest march against the New York Agreement, in which America recognise Indonesian sovereignty over Papua in 1962. Of course, they had no police permit, since the name of the NGO is a clear signal it is up to no good.

Because of that, no police escort, local residents (unclear if mobilised or spontaneous) got into clash with separatist marchers. Many people, including Papuans, injured.

Malang Mayor makes statement that Papuan Students causing civil disturbances will be sent home.

19/08/2019 Saturday, Surabaya:
Local residents and NGOs surround Papuan Student Dormitory after photo of Indonesian Flag in a gutter is circulated, alleging it was done by Papuans in front of the Papuan Student Dormitory. No actual evidence beyond photo is found.

No injuries, as Papuans stay in their Dormitory.

Police later come to the building, shooting tear-gas into the dormitory and detain several students for questioning. It is unclear if they faced resistance while entering the dormitory, no injuries of students reported after detainment process.

Students later released as there was no evidence that they were perpetrators and no witnesses or confessions.

20/08/2019 Sunday, Papua:

Multiple Riots in Papuan cities, citing racist remarks of Malang Mayor and racism displayed by local residents, pro-Indonesian NGO, and Surabayan police. Many riots become violent, with vandalism to state symbols conducted.

Jatim Governor issues apology for the events in her province.

21/08/2019 Monday, Malang:

Tension in Papua lowers.

Malang Governor issues apology.

______________________________

Basically that. A lot of people are saying the Surabaya incident was set up. Some say it was by Islamic Radicals stirring up trouble. Others say it was by Pro-Independence activists trying to provoke a clash that would anger Papuans who were neutral in regards to Independence.




Yeah, we were pretty unlucky that the embargo period also during time of weak economy, and that our internal problem wasn't big enough to justify full investment in military industrial complex (Lucky thing actually). Funny it took a disaster to finally get the ball rolling.



Yeah, I'm not even sure that old relic is bulletproof. That armour is damn old I won't be surprised if even smallarms fire will piece it.

Almost in that time (embargoed time) all of our industry is almost bankrupt, anything can be sell we sell them, i still remember how we strugle to make our engginer living in very redicolous sallary and there are almost no contract for years... we close so many line and lost many employe. I would rather avoid any embargoe in many ways, its not making money at all by fixing scrap, we done no bussiness. Young generation should know how suffer our industry coz of it

 

[Logam42]

Almost in that time (embargoed time) all of our industry is almost bankrupt, anything can sell we sell them, i still remember how we strugle to make our engginer living in very redicolous sallary and there are almost no contract for years... we close so many line and lost many employe. I would rather avoid any embargoe in many ways, its not making money at all by fixing scrap, we done no bussiness. Young generation should know how suffer our industry coz of it

Was it that bad even before the krisis moneter or was the krisis the deathblow?

 

[barjo]

Was it that bad even before the krisis moneter or was the krisis the deathblow?

The trickle down effect of currency all imported component rise but we have contract to fulfill with low price before the dollar rise, the production cost is rise but the selling price is fix

Hi tech industry manufacture is suspectible to currency, industri hilir paling ancur dibandingkan industri hulu

 

[Logam42]

Goddamit this is adding fuel to the fire, isn't it??

It is, but to be fair there has always been a hard-core anti-Indonesian group in Papua that will use any excuse to riot.

The stupid remarks by the Malang Mayor (which while not racist, is rather rudely worded) and those from "Pro-NKRI" NGOs (Which were mocking, abusive, and racist) really add fuel to the fire. I prefer if the Anti-NKRI faction among Papuans does not get to grow. Its already hard enough to face international propaganda and OPM. Last thing we need is Popular Resistance among papuans themselves.

The trickle down effect of currency all imported component rise but we have contract to fulfill with low price before the dollar rise, the production cost is rise but the selling price is fix

I see. I'm glad those days are over. At least now the Defence Industry benefit from the government support caused by the memories of embargo.

 

[barjo]

It is, but to be fair there has always been a hard-core anti-Indonesian group in Papua that will use any excuse to riot.

The stupid remarks by the Malang Mayor (which while not racist, is rather rudely worded) and those from "Pro-NKRI" NGOs (Which were mocking, abusive, and racist) really add fuel to the fire. I prefer if the Anti-NKRI faction among Papuans does not get to grow. Its already hard enough to face international propaganda and OPM. Last thing we need is Popular Resistance among papuans themselves.



I see. I'm glad those days are over. At least now the Defence Industry benefit from the government support caused by the memories of embargo.

Yes bro... but still... defence industry is small market share in industrial world, we dont know untill when gov. project will continue to support indiginous industry specially private sector. Sometime the defence section in private sector can be closed or discontinue if there are no profit on it.. so in the perfect moment dig it deep, I knew some shipbuilder though right know

 

[Raduga]

Myanmar navy makassar class LPD , launched by daesun shipyard . they ordered 4 according to rumour

Source : FB Page ROKAF

if i remember there was a news about them negotiate the LPD with us around 2014-2015 period

https://www.facebook.com/video.php?v=741048719270619

http://defense-studies.blogspot.com/2014/07/myanmar-navy-and-indonesias-pt-pal-in.html

why don't we take the order ? is the module production line workshop full at that time ?

 

[barjo]

Myanmar navy makassar class LPD . they ordered 4 according to rumour

Source : FB Page ROKAF

if i remember there was a news about them negotiate the LPD with us around 2014-2015 period

https://www.facebook.com/video.php?v=741048719270619

http://defense-studies.blogspot.com/2014/07/myanmar-navy-and-indonesias-pt-pal-in.html

why don't we take the order ? is the module production line workshop full in that time ?

Ask the marketing guy

The order still unclear they said only one

 

[Raduga]

Ask the marketing guy

The order still unclear they said only one

clearly there are 2 ship in satellite image that i posted (one still uncompleted)

 

[barjo]

clearly there are 2 ship in satellite image that i posted (one still uncompleted)

Siji mas sing ning tengah ning dock terapung

Only one in the midle in the floating dock

The 2 ship beside it its to small for LPD
See it carefully midle of the floating dock between the 3 ship

 

[Raduga]

View attachment 575107
Siji mas sing ning tengah ning dock terapung

Only one in the midle in the floating dock

The 2 ship beside it its to small for LPD
See it carefully midle of the floating dock between the 3 ship

oalah , pangapunten , my eyes not good enough wkwkwk .

 

[GraveDigger388]

It is, but to be fair there has always been a hard-core anti-Indonesian group in Papua that will use any excuse to riot.

The stupid remarks by the Malang Mayor (which while not racist, is rather rudely worded) and those from "Pro-NKRI" NGOs (Which were mocking, abusive, and racist) really add fuel to the fire. I prefer if the Anti-NKRI faction among Papuans does not get to grow. Its already hard enough to face international propaganda and OPM. Last thing we need is Popular Resistance among papuans themselves.

The whole thing is really delicate.

Di satu sisi, mereka demo menolak kedaulatan RI atas Papua, disisi lain, penanganan demo yang over the top.

Catch 22...

 

[MacanJawa]

waow lot papua issue talk here, govt must act fast, before OPM and gang gain oppotunity and traction
there lots of papuan student in java support bintang kejora. and local doenst like their expression.
add some provoke "words" in social media and bingo recipe for riot and even can escalate into ...

is SU 35 purchase still in on going or terminated?

 

[Logam42]

waow lot papua issue talk here, govt must act fast, before OPM and gang gain oppotunity and traction
there lots of papuan student in java support bintang kejora. and local doenst like their expression.
add some provoke "words" in social media and bingo recipe for riot and even can escalate into ...

is SU 35 purchase still in on going or terminated?

Yeah, a Chinese Indonesian friend of mine who stayed in papua for some time with a lot of Papuan friends said that ironically its the Papuan students in Java that tend to be more separatist minded.

Papuans in the coast have more or less assimilated, those in the mountain area are often very distrustful of Indonesia but don't think of themselves as papuans (more tribal identity). Its the students that are separatist.

Its a time bomb as the well educated tend to become community leaders down the line.

 

[HellFireIndo]

The whole thing is really delicate.

Di satu sisi, mereka demo menolak kedaulatan RI atas Papua, disisi lain, penanganan demo yang over the top.

Catch 22...

Just let it died down after a week or so, there's really no use of them to do anything at this point, the world will not support them ( the separatist), even more so in the future. Naive thought of "liberal" ideals have no place in this specific place and this specific time, there's no room for secessionist sentiment anymore, it's all a lost cause for any young simple minded idealist, who thought that running away from his parents, carrying nothing but his own ego will somehow made his life any better.

But then, i'm sure that in this case, someone deliberately stage this all up, first by steering the rumor of the flag incident, then profited by the ensuing conflicts and misunderstandings afterwards, but it's still unclear of who benefited by the incident and how. This one heats up fast due to the negative stigma made last year, of how some Papuan students in the dorm refused to hoist Merah Putih, and some even "actively refusing" to. That's probably why some people swallowed the rumor a bit too prematurely without cross-checking the fact first, and just blame it on Papuan students right away.

 

[MacanJawa]

yes i think our people is not ready for age of information, they swallow whole shit from internet and accept it.
and govt need get tougher stance on hoax maker hang it if necessary. haha