Indonesia Defence Forum

[MacanJawa]

what russian jet fighter equivalent with f-16v?
hmm i think we need buy refurbished f-16 like before mixed with brand new f-16v

and where our ground based air defence?

 

[Jatosint]

I prefer we negotiate with the US government to arrange more refurbished of F16s thus we could have a lot of F16s.

There was a news that we will buy 48 viper with the cost of USD 4.5 billion (USD 4500 million).

Last time we had arranged 24 F16 refurbished plus 2 unit block 15 and 4 unit block 25 as back up (total 24+2+4 = 30 unit) with the cost of USD 750 million.

If the fund of USD 4.5 billion really exist, I prefer we could make same as previous arrangement with the cost of USD 4.5 billion = USD 4500 million which is 6 times of usd 750 million, we could make arrangement of 6 x 24 = 144 unit of F16 refurbished plus 6 x 2 = 12 unit block 15 and 6 x 4 = 24 unit block 25 as back up (cadangan). Thus with the cost of USD 4.5 billion we could make arrangement of totally 144+12+24 = 180 unit of F16's!!!

Gubraaaaak!!!

USD 750 million itu kan F-16 C/D limited upgrade jadi 'setara' block 52

Jgn cuma dari jumlah hitungannya, 180 F-16 ini emangnya 180 F-16 block berapa?

TNI maunya varian terbaru block 70/72 loh

 

[HellFireIndo]

The Flankers aren't as popular as people think. Towards the general public sure but within our military circles it's a huge maintenance hog that really drains a lot of money from the annual budget. It also doesn't help that we operate a mixed fleet of Flankers instead of one common airframe type, add the Su-35 into that mix and it'll be one giant clusterfuck to logistics.

The fact that the officer in the video earlier mentioned that, budget permitting, he hopes the Air Force is able to operate F-15's is testament to that fact.

I'd rather us scrap the Flanker altogether and take advantage of the fact that the USAF is buying a large number of F-15X's and work from there.

This make me sad sure that's a good point regarding the fact that Sukhois are logistical burden, but i don't expect it is THAT much of a burden, i thought Su-27/30/35 have like "good" compatibility with each other, but apparently they're not, and that they cost a lot in maintenance, so...well, i'm convinced that they have to be "taken care of". The Sukhois are not even into their 20 years of service, and also Su-35 is expected to arrive soon, so i think the we'll stick with the Sukhois for some times.

I think fitting F-15X into the Air Force is kinda "hard", as KFX/IFX is supposed to be of a similar class of fighter to F-15, in weight and payload, even though SK wanted them to be F-16 replacement, the end design show a heavier and larger airframe with higher performance than just a "better than F-16" fighter, you could say that it is the equivalent of Super Hornet, so probably if the Air Force wanted something like F-15, the KFX/IFX could take the role as well. The ideal structure would be F-16V - KFX/IFX - F-15X, perfectly fitting each class. But, regarding the F-15X, we could only wait and speculate, at least until Yuyu also made an official statement, either about the Viper or the Eagle, or even both. I liked F-15 better than Sukhoi tbh.

what russian jet fighter equivalent with f-16v?
hmm i think we need buy refurbished f-16 like before mixed with brand new f-16v

and where our ground based air defence?

You might be looking for MiG-35, lighter than Su-35, latest Russian tech and upgrade on older Mig-29 airframe, geared for export.

Air Defence... just wait for them in the next MEF phase, maybe next year, NASAMS 2 prime candidate, and i personally expecting Patriot or even THAAD (lol :v)

 

[Mr. Woof Woof]

USD 750 million itu kan F-16 C/D limited upgrade jadi 'setara' block 52

Jgn cuma dari jumlah hitungannya, 180 F-16 ini emangnya 180 F-16 block berapa?

TNI maunya varian terbaru block 70/72 loh

180 itu terdiri dari :

144 unit block 32 rasa avionik setara block 52
12 unit block 15 sebagai cadangan
24 unit block 25 sebagai cadangan

Kata kuncinya adalah kebutuhan bukan keinginan.

Sebenarnya kebutuhan fighter kita yang ideal itu 288 unit fighter di mana kita sudah punya 92 unit terdiri dari :

23 hawk 109/209
16 unit Sukhoi all varian
38 unit F16 existing (24-1 + 10-1 + 2 + 4 = 38)
15 unit t50 golden eagle

23+16+38+15 = 92

Berita terakhir IFX/KFX kita hanya minta dibangun 16 unit

92 + 16 = 108

288 - 108 = 180

Jadi masih kurang 180 unit.

Jika kekurangan yang 180 unit itu langsung diisi F16 semua walaupun refurbish atau lungsuran dari gurun tidak apa2 yang penting kebutuhan jumlah platform pesawat tempur dapat dipenuhi terlebih dulu.

Sesudah lengkap, F16 itu baru kita cicil upgrade baik di body/rangka airframe diperpanjang usia pakainya maupun avionik dan radar secara bertahap sebanyak 180 + 38 = 218 unit jadi varian viper semua seperti yang punya Taiwan.

Jadi kalo mau Viper ya sabar dulu, yang penting semua pilot tempur bisa dapat pesawat yang bisa terbang. Kalo diupgrade lama2 khan bisa dapat Viper semua.

 

[MacanJawa]

eh dulu f-16 nya kayaknya gratis (hibah) deh cuma bayar upgrade, iya nggak sih?

 

[barjo]

Mau murah meriah, suku cadang f5 bisa beli ke Iran asal nga ada yg suka cerewet

eh dulu f-16 nya kayaknya gratis (hibah) deh cuma bayar upgrade, iya nggak sih?

Iya om kmarin Obama good will ma kita yg kismin ini takut line western equipment mereka pupus jadi ngasih bekasan tu... ngebak-ngebak'i parkiran di bone yard

 

[initial_d]

tetangga sudah pesan F-35 disini masih mau F-16 bapuk bekas , sudah benar mau pesan F-16 viper, Quality beats quantity mate, punya 180 palkon buluk juga emang ga beratin!? pilotnya dari mana?! BBM nya gimana!? 180 fighter tuh banyak loh hehehehehe

 

[Mr. Woof Woof]

tetangga sudah pesan F-35 disini masih mau F-16 bapuk bekas , sudah benar mau pesan F-16 viper, Quality beats quantity mate, punya 180 palkon buluk juga emang ga beratin!? pilotnya dari mana?! BBM nya gimana!? 180 fighter tuh banyak loh hehehehehe

Lho itu solusi paling murah untuk memenuhi target jumlah ideal serta menghindari logistic nightmare dan pesawatnya upgrade-able. Lagipula pilot kita nggak ada tuh yang bilang F16 c/d yang kita punya buluk. Yang buluk bukan pesawatnya kali' tapi bisa jadi muke elo tuh yang di bawah standar rata2. Hehehehe.

Pilot tempur kita tuh banyak, sekarang 1 pesawat dipakai 3 orang bergantian. Kalo yang 2 orang dari masing2 pespur yang ada dialihkan untuk menjadi pilot f16 cukup tuh.

Lagipula khan nggak langsung pesen trus langsung dateng itu pespur, pasti makan waktu paling nggak 5-10 taon, masakah waktu segitu panjang pilot kita nggak nambah ?

Soal BBM ? No problem lah, lha waktu pemenuhan jumlah 288 unit itu sampai tahun 2029 kok. Mosok jangka waktu 10 tahun kilang minyak kita nggak nambah ?

 

[HellFireIndo]

tetangga sudah pesan F-35 disini masih mau F-16 bapuk bekas , sudah benar mau pesan F-16 viper, Quality beats quantity mate, punya 180 palkon buluk juga emang ga beratin!? pilotnya dari mana?! BBM nya gimana!? 180 fighter tuh banyak loh hehehehehe

Mr. Woof Woof AKA Tukang Ngitung memang ahlinya berhitung, anggap saja ia coba-coba bikin skenario via hitungan just for fun. Sebenarnya 4-5 Skadron F-16 saja sudah cukup, asal versi up-to-date, toh kalo kebanyakan juga buat apa? mending uangnya invest kepada program modernisasi/upgrade atau R&D atau idk beli force-multiplier/alutsista support kek cem AEW&C, Poseidon, Drone MALE-HALE, C-130J etc...

Sebenarnya dari dulu US sudah melihat Indonesia sebagai calon pembeli F-35, sejak 2008 malah, dengan kata kunci "Joint Strike Fighter". Tapi......itu bukan secara khusus, melainkan juga karena Indonesia merupakan pengguna F-16 dan juga waktu itu sedang ingin akuisisi F-16 refurbish, yang mana inilah pesawat yang para netizen benci karena "bekas" (bekas konon, hibah konon, tapi habis 750 million USD cuma buat refurbishnya doang?) itulah yang justru dapat menjembatani Indonesia kepada kesempatan untuk mengakusisi F-35. Pilihan utama jatuh kepada F-16V sebagai pengganti 2 skadron hawk itu sudah tepat, tapi mesti cepet-cepetan, soalnya antrean di Lockheed Martin lama karena banyak yang pesen, tapi kilang produksi banyak yang pada ditutup karena US pengen fokus ke F-35. (btw tidak perlu yang namanya terlalu waswas akan tetangga, wong mayoritas mereka juga banyak masalah, kadang lebih parah dari kita malah)

 

[Nike]

Mr. Woof Woof AKA Tukang Ngitung memang ahlinya berhitung, anggap saja ia coba-coba bikin skenario via hitungan just for fun. Sebenarnya 4-5 Skadron F-16 saja sudah cukup, asal versi up-to-date, toh kalo kebanyakan juga buat apa? mending uangnya invest kepada program modernisasi/upgrade atau R&D atau idk beli force-multiplier/alutsista support kek cem AEW&C, Poseidon, Drone MALE-HALE, C-130J etc...

Sebenarnya dari dulu US sudah melihat Indonesia sebagai calon pembeli F-35, sejak 2008 malah, dengan kata kunci "Joint Strike Fighter". Tapi......itu bukan secara khusus, melainkan juga karena Indonesia merupakan pengguna F-16 dan juga waktu itu sedang ingin akuisisi F-16 refurbish, yang mana inilah pesawat yang para netizen benci karena "bekas" (bekas konon, hibah konon, tapi habis 750 million USD cuma buat refurbishnya doang?) itulah yang justru dapat menjembatani Indonesia kepada kesempatan untuk mengakusisi F-35. Pilihan utama jatuh kepada F-16V sebagai pengganti 2 skadron hawk itu sudah tepat, tapi mesti cepet-cepetan, soalnya antrean di Lockheed Martin lama karena banyak yang pesen, tapi kilang produksi banyak yang pada ditutup karena US pengen fokus ke F-35. (btw tidak perlu yang namanya terlalu waswas akan tetangga, wong mayoritas mereka juga banyak masalah, kadang lebih parah dari kita malah)

F16 line production is being expanded one new is in greenfield

https://theaviationgeekclub.com/lockheed-martin-launches-new-f-16-production-line-in-greenville/

F35 is not as promising as it hints, well from my point of view as Indonesian first, taking F 16V is a more prudent moves, instead of F35 just take F18 growler and F15X and joint Loyal wingman program with Boeing and Australia. Swarm the enemies with electronic attack and precision strikes from more mature and capable platform

 

[HellFireIndo]

F16 line production is being expanded one new is in greenfield

https://theaviationgeekclub.com/lockheed-martin-launches-new-f-16-production-line-in-greenville/

F35 is not as promising as it hints, well from my point of view as Indonesian first, taking F 16V is a more prudent moves, instead of F35 just take F18 growler and F15X and joint Loyal wingman program with Boeing and Australia. Swarm the enemies with electronic attack and precision strikes from more mature and capable platform

Good to know, cause i saw an article which says many F-16's production line are to be closed cause the US isn't going to buy them anymore, and also cause there's a lot of speculations that Viper delivery order would be one hell of a queue, which caused the like of Thai and Pinoy forumers in a "difficult choice" (not for us) between choosing F-16V and Gripen NG, or any similar alternatives.

I would support F-15X if it made the news, but i think i wouldn't support Growler, even though they could be a good asset with their EW capability, i would rather see a KFX/IFX EW variant in the Air Force, cause literally, F-18 and especially Super Hornet, is exactly of the same class as KFX/IFX, so we can't have two of them at the same time.

 

[barjo]

Lho itu solusi paling murah untuk memenuhi target jumlah ideal serta menghindari logistic nightmare dan pesawatnya upgrade-able. Lagipula pilot kita nggak ada tuh yang bilang F16 c/d yang kita punya buluk. Yang buluk bukan pesawatnya kali' tapi bisa jadi muke elo tuh yang di bawah standar rata2. Hehehehe.

Pilot tempur kita tuh banyak, sekarang 1 pesawat dipakai 3 orang bergantian. Kalo yang 2 orang dari masing2 pespur yang ada dialihkan untuk menjadi pilot f16 cukup tuh.

Lagipula khan nggak langsung pesen trus langsung dateng itu pespur, pasti makan waktu paling nggak 5-10 taon, masakah waktu segitu panjang pilot kita nggak nambah ?

Soal BBM ? No problem lah, lha waktu pemenuhan jumlah 288 unit itu sampai tahun 2029 kok. Mosok jangka waktu 10 tahun kilang minyak kita nggak nambah ?

Kalau diskusi disini dilarang nyolot, emang empang bapak loe

Balik ke JKGR atau yg lain aja, jangan kesini bung

Mr. Woof Woof AKA Tukang Ngitung memang ahlinya berhitung, anggap saja ia coba-coba bikin skenario via hitungan just for fun. Sebenarnya 4-5 Skadron F-16 saja sudah cukup, asal versi up-to-date, toh kalo kebanyakan juga buat apa? mending uangnya invest kepada program modernisasi/upgrade atau R&D atau idk beli force-multiplier/alutsista support kek cem AEW&C, Poseidon, Drone MALE-HALE, C-130J etc...

Sebenarnya dari dulu US sudah melihat Indonesia sebagai calon pembeli F-35, sejak 2008 malah, dengan kata kunci "Joint Strike Fighter". Tapi......itu bukan secara khusus, melainkan juga karena Indonesia merupakan pengguna F-16 dan juga waktu itu sedang ingin akuisisi F-16 refurbish, yang mana inilah pesawat yang para netizen benci karena "bekas" (bekas konon, hibah konon, tapi habis 750 million USD cuma buat refurbishnya doang?) itulah yang justru dapat menjembatani Indonesia kepada kesempatan untuk mengakusisi F-35. Pilihan utama jatuh kepada F-16V sebagai pengganti 2 skadron hawk itu sudah tepat, tapi mesti cepet-cepetan, soalnya antrean di Lockheed Martin lama karena banyak yang pesen, tapi kilang produksi banyak yang pada ditutup karena US pengen fokus ke F-35. (btw tidak perlu yang namanya terlalu waswas akan tetangga, wong mayoritas mereka juga banyak masalah, kadang lebih parah dari kita malah)

Yes agree. Use the budget for RnD dont buy any junk

 

[Mr. Woof Woof]

Kalau diskusi disini dilarang nyolot, emang empang bapak loe

Balik ke JKGR atau yg lain aja, jangan kesini bung



Yes agree. Use the budget for RnD dont buy any junk

Yang nyolot duluan dengan kata "buluk" siapa coba ? Kalo dia mau hapus kata "buluk" itu saya juga bersedia hapus kalimat saya. Lha user aja nggak ada yang bilang buluk.

RnD sih oke-oke aja tetapi target jumlah pespur tetap harus dipenuhi tidak soal ambil dari mana dan jenis apa ASAL bisa nyambung dengan NCW kita.

 

[barjo]

F16 line production is being expanded one new is in greenfield

https://theaviationgeekclub.com/lockheed-martin-launches-new-f-16-production-line-in-greenville/

F35 is not as promising as it hints, well from my point of view as Indonesian first, taking F 16V is a more prudent moves, instead of F35 just take F18 growler and F15X and joint Loyal wingman program with Boeing and Australia. Swarm the enemies with electronic attack and precision strikes from more mature and capable platform

I believe we can learn from harpoon case sis... they block our navy capabilities in the early 90's to acquire antiship missile...

I mean wishly to corporate our asset with ausy is better

 

[Nike]

I believe we can learn from harpoon case sis... they block our navy capabilities in the early 90's to acquire antiship missile...

I mean wishly to corporate our asset with ausy is better

Harpoon actually had made our early (2nd gen) ASHM, US block further sales because Santa Cruz incident and gross violation of our Army and lead to diplomatic crisis further during Clinton Admin. Well, this incident made our diplomat and military upper branch trying to sourced arm import from Russia and French, and even starting to open diplomatic channel with PRC. This i believe as long as we are in current track, US doesnt have any reason to block more strategic arms sales and technology transfer to Indonesia

Until KFX/IFX finished their engineering phase we should made other contemporary Fighter as our benchmarking to build up our capability, honestly i much prefer to cast aside Flanker family as soon as possible and taking combi of F/A18 and F15X as our strike and superiority units