Indonesia Defence Forum

[mengkom]

Longer barrel means that the high pressure gas has more time to propel the projectile inside the barrel. Higher muzzle velocity means slightly longer effective range.

Like what I say previously, a DMR-man with should act like common rifleman. If his fellow soldiers are able to engage the OPFOR with 5.56mm, then the DMR man will also open fire. The more stable projectile trajectory and higher accuracy are primary benefits of longer barrel, while the slightly higher effective range is an added bonus.

If the DMR-man is equipped with SS-3, that's even better. But like what I said, I'm just being conservative, for higher commonality in terms of parts and ammo.

Nope,
V4 has the same barrel length as V1, both are 460mm..so the effective range is identical
The only differences between the two is heavier barrel in V4, which means better grouping potential and better sustainment to prolong fire

Barrel length

• SS2-V1 460 mm
• SS2-V2 403 mm
• SS2-V4 460 mm
• SS2-V5 252 mm

 

[katarabhumi]

26th ASEAN Armies Rifle Meet - AARM 2016

Indonesian Army arrival for AARM 2016 --20 Nov 2016

MANILA, Philippines – Marksmen representing the armies of the 10 ASEAN countries started arriving in the Philippines for the ASEAN Armies Rifle Meet 2016 (AARM 2016) to be held from November 18 to December 7 at Camp O'Donnel in Capas, Tarlac.

The contest will happen alongside the meeting of ASEAN army chiefs, who will themselves engage in a friendly shooting competition.

"The objective of the AARM is to develop and strengthen the relationship among the member armies from its senior military leaders down to their foot soldiers," said Army spokesman Colonel Benjie Hao during the media launch of the marksmanship contest on Tuesday, November 15.

The 10 ASEAN countries are Brunei Darussalam, Cambodia, Indonesia, Laos, Malaysia, Myanmar, Philippines, Singapore, Thailand, and Vietnam.

The Royal Thai Army will be defending its championship title last year. If successful, it will match the 9 titles of the Indonesian Army which currently holds the most number of championship titles since the marksmanship contest started in 1991.

#Rappler
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KICK OFF | ASEAN Armies Combat Shooting Competition in Capas, Tarlac
November 21, 2016

CAPAS, Tarlac (DWDD) – The ASEAN Armies Rifle Meet (AARM) 2016 kicked off after the joint flag raising ceremony of combat shooting contingents from (10) ASEAN countries at the AARM Grandstand in Camp O’Donnell, Capas, Tarlac at 7:30 a.m., November 21, 2016. The competing contingents are Malaysia, Indonesia, Thailand, Singapore, Vietnam, Brunie, Philippines, Laos, Myanmar, and Cambodia. After the flag raising ceremony, the army shooters started their controlled practice at the machine gun and pistol ranges. This international combat shooting event will culminate on December 7, 2016.

Commanding General Philippine Army Lt. Gen. Eduardo M. Año was the guest of honor and speaker during the ceremony. Gen. Año, was accompanied by the Task Force AARM Commander Brig. Gen.Herminigildo Franciso C. Aquino and members of the Executive Committee. The contingents were led by respective contingent commanders in honoring the flag of the member-state.

The AARM is an annual combat shooting competition of ASEAN armies

dwdd()com.ph/2016/11/21/kick-off-asean-armies-combat-shooting-competition-in-capas-tarlac/
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Entar klo hasilnya bagus.. update di tret berikut yak?! :

https://defence.pk/threads/tni-ftw-...-at-shooting-competition-in-australia.377536/

 

[mengkom]

Sir, from your point of view, what is the plus and minus between our infantry compared to the us or the british... If it is comparable of course, concerning we have different topography than the us or the british...

What aspect do we outdated, and in what aspect do we progressing more than other ?...

What changes should the army done to the composition of the infantry units from your point of view ?...

Which nation are we role modelling our infantry composition ?...

I am sorry for the trouble i put you in... But i cant help it... Discussing with you is so much fun...

And what is the DMR ?...

Thank you...

Well, the team composition always conform to the equipment they got
Problem is, in TNI the equipment varies greatly between one batallion with another
In one batallion they are better equipped with latest SS-2 + optical sight, in another batallion they even still uses M-16A1
So,equalization in equipment is the first and foremost homework for TNI
It need to be addressed before we talk about standardization in fireteam composition

In general, we need to inducted more weapon system in team organization
More equipment means more tactical option for team to complete their mission

There are several pindad products that hasn't been fielded to TNI, such as commando mortar, SS-3, SS-2V4..if inducted, all of those weapon will boost team firepower
TNI needs to induct man-portable rocket launcher/recoilles rifle to its fireteam like RPG/carl gustav 84mm.. We are fall behind our neighbor in this field..
DMR role is also crucial in todays warfare..vietnam, singapore has special DMR role in its team, we haven't seen those in TNI

But i think we see a lot of improvement in recent years
Individual equipment is far better than Aceh war a decade ago..
A lot of those equipment has been made locally

We'll get there

 

[Su-35SM3 Flanker-N]

Nope,
V4 has the same barrel length as V1, both are 460mm..so the effective range is identical
The only differences between the two is heavier barrel in V4, which means better grouping potential and better sustainment to prolong fire

Barrel length

• SS2-V1 460 mm
• SS2-V2 403 mm
• SS2-V4 460 mm
• SS2-V5 252 mm

According to Pindad, SS2V4 has 500mm barrel as opposed to SS2V1 at 460mm. The effective range is also slightly longer at 500-600m, instead of 400m

 

[faries]

Yon Bekang 4. Image credit Dispenad.

C 295. Image credit to Jeff Prananda.

The Humming Bird. Image credit to Jeff Prananda.

Home of Fighters. Image credit to Jeff Prananda.

 

[Nike]

Well, the team composition always conform to the equipment they got
Problem is, in TNI the equipment varies greatly between one batallion with another
In one batallion they are better equipped with latest SS-2 + optical sight, in another batallion they even still uses M-16A1
So,equalization in equipment is the first and foremost homework for TNI
It need to be addressed before we talk about standardization in fireteam composition

In general, we need to inducted more weapon system in team organization
More equipment means more tactical option for team to complete their mission

There are several pindad products that hasn't been fielded to TNI, such as commando mortar, SS-3, SS-2V4..if inducted, all of those weapon will boost team firepower
TNI needs to induct man-portable rocket launcher/recoilles rifle to its fireteam like RPG/carl gustav 84mm.. We are fall behind our neighbor in this field..
DMR role is also crucial in todays warfare..vietnam, singapore has special DMR role in its team, we haven't seen those in TNI

But i think we see a lot of improvement in recent years
Individual equipment is far better than Aceh war a decade ago..
A lot of those equipment has been made locally

We'll get there

well just a little more than decade ago most of Indonesian army battalion formation doesnt have trucks or any other form of vehicles for their tactical movements. Their movement depends on the availability of vehicles from nearby DITBEKANG companies or battalion. Right now most had been motorized and some had been mechanized, the differences is so great

 

[mengkom]

well just a little more than decade ago most of Indonesian army battalion formation doesnt have trucks or any other form of vehicles for their tactical movements. Their movement depends on the availability of vehicles from nearby DITBEKANG companies or battalion. Right now most had been motorized and some had been mechanized, the differences is so great

true that,
currently we are shifting our deployment pattern to mechanized infantry, and TNI is pretty fast in adopting it
since releasing in 2008, anoa has been produced more than 300 units.. more IFV and APC is in order
we are now have the ability to simultaneously transporting 1 fully equipped batallion via helicopter
we are now have the ability to rapidly deploy our armored vehicle to any hot zone in Indonesia, within days

rapid deployment is the answer to our currently imbalance equipment placement

 

[afiq0110]

@mengkom... @madokafc... Thank you very much...

 

[Nike]

most infantry batallion units right now had transport platoon as integral unit to cater their mobility movements, thats what a sharp contrast to the past in which most deployed by foots and the mobility is very restricted. Right now, ditbekang served to cater the mobility of units on strategic deployments at far away places.

bonus

 

[mandala]

Indonesian Army Leopard 2RI MBT live firing in Natuna. Credit to TNI-AD.

 

[pr1v4t33r]

Upacara Pelepasan 500 Personel TNI AD Yonif 726 ke Maluku

Makassar: Sebanyak 500 prajurit TNI AD Yonif 726/Tamalate Kodam VII Wirabuana diberangkatkan dengan menggunakan KRI Teluk Lampung untuk menjaga daerah rawan di Maluku dan Maluku Utara selama sembilan bulan. ANTARA/Yusran Uccang

 

[pr1v4t33r]

According to Pindad, SS2V4 has 500mm barrel as opposed to SS2V1 at 460mm. The effective range is also slightly longer at 500-600m, instead of 400m

True that, confirmed. Thus the use of SS2-v4 for DMR role is justified.

SS2-v4

SS2-v1

While SS2-v4 HB

 

[Nike]

DMR just not need range but stopping power and penetration power must be calculated too. High velocity caliber like 5,56 NATO will lose more kinetic energy when traverse at long distance due too lighter mass (well it all depends on type of gunpowder you are using and other natural factor)

 

[mengkom]

^^ i stand by my argument
there is a reason why anywhere in the world, no one uses 5.56mm rifle as Designated Marksmen Rifle even though it will simplify logistical problems tremendously
it simply don't work

we always bragged about how well SS-2V4 perform in shooting competition like AASAM/AARM
but in real world scenario, it is a different story entirely

what matter most is not range i.e. whether or not the bullet will reach its target
what matter most is terminal ballistic, i.e. whether or not the bullet will reach its target while still retaining enough kinetic energy to knock down your enemy and/or effectively yawing inside your enemy body
* fired from 508mm barrel (longer barrel than SS-2V4), our standard SS109 bullet falls sharply beyond 300 meters
* moreover SS109 cartridges have their best terminal effects at velocities above 2500 feet per second..also when fired from 508mm barrel, the projectile reach this speed below 200 meters!

you see, 5.56 is designed to engage target at relatively short distance.. 200-300 meters is way below what DMR engagement range expected to be
"effective range=500m" like you see in the above picture is way..way..too optimist..because the bullet itself has bottleneck effect on rifle performance

like i said, the heavy barrel in SS-2 V4 is meant to produce tighter grouping and better sustainment at high rate of fire.. it's not optimal for DMR use

 

[pr1v4t33r]

DMR just not need range but stopping power and penetration power must be calculated too. High velocity caliber like 5,56 NATO will lose more kinetic energy when traverse at long distance due too lighter mass (well it all depends on type of gunpowder you are using and other natural factor)

One recent case showing SS1-v1 using MU5-TJ 5,56 mm ammo can easily penetrate USMC bulletproof vest. This could demonstrate how 5,56 can also be designed to provide higher stopping power.