Indonesia Defence Forum

[afiq0110]

View attachment 354164

Sir, could you provide the spec of the newly developed sniper rifle ?... Does it have longer range than the previous ?... What is the difference between those two ?...

Thank you very much...

 

[mengkom]

Sir, could you provide the spec of the newly developed sniper rifle ?... Does it have longer range than the previous ?... What is the difference between those two ?...

Thank you very much...

earlier version

later version

just minor upgrade from the earlier version of SPR-3. Mostly just furniture differences:
- Free Floating front handguard, does not contact to barrel.
- Round profile muzzle break. Now there's no need to remove the muzzle break to install suppressor. The Supressor can be directly threaded to muzzle break
- Different buttstock with adjustable height and length of pull

if you look closely, the action seem to be copied from British Arctic Warfare L96
boxy receiver, rectangular bolt, loaded chamber indicator, the position of cocking handle and safety toggle are the dead giveaway

 

[mengkom]

another sniper rifle made by pindad:

SPR-1 7.62mm

it is based on winchester model 70 action
the design is quite obsolete by today standard
laminated wood body is prone to swell up when exposed to high humidty typical to tropical country
the action does not feature controlled-feed system, it is prone to failure to extract when clearing dud round in the chamber
it's no longer in production, and is being slowly phased out by TNI


SPR-2 12.7mm anti-material rifle
it is based on zastava M93 black arrow
so far a few number has been adopted by special forces

earlier version with boxed muzzle break

newer version with round muzzle break for quick-attachable supressor

a few years ago pindad also made 7.62 sniper rifle which is dubbed "blue angel"

but i think it's identical to SPR-3, but dressed up in minimalist furniture
and i think the nickname is..cheesy

 

[afiq0110]

earlier version

later version

just minor upgrade from the earlier version of SPR-3. Mostly just furniture differences:
- Free Floating front handguard, does not contact to barrel.
- Tube profile muzzle break. Now there's no need to remove the muzzle break to install suppressor. The Supressor can be directly threaded to muzzle break
- Different buttstock with adjustable height and length of pull

if you look closely, the action seem to be copied from British Arctic Warfare L96
boxy receiver, rectangular bolt, loaded chamber indicator, the position of cocking handle and safety toggle are the dead giveaway

Thank you mr meong... Ups, sorry... Mr mengkom... Very much appriciated

Please enlighten me some more in another matter...

When we bought Oerlikon Skyshield, did we get the technology to produce the bullet independently...

I heard we already researched our own 'pacar wutah'... Is it true ?...

Thanks....

 

[afiq0110]

@ Mengkom... Related to the sniper rifle... Can we upgrade the range of fire... Or make it more silence, without using the silencer... Can the shell penetrate the armor of an ifv armor or at least an apc armor.... I was hoping it have enough power to penetrate through a mbt armor...

 

[mengkom]

@ Mengkom... Related to the sniper rifle... Can we upgrade the range of fire... Or make it more silence, without using the silencer... Can the shell penetrate the armor of an ifv armor or at least an apc armor.... I was hoping it have enough power to penetrate through a mbt armor...

do you mean tweaking the existing rifle?
Simple answer: NO
a lot of compromise have to be made

you want longer range?
-lengthen the barrel, but it will make the rifle unwieldy
-increase the propellant pressure, and you make the barrel wear faster
-with current caliber, the bullet will drop significantly in longer range, and aerodynamic of the projectile won't compensate enough for wind drifting, so it is pretty much useless anyway

you want lesser sound signature?
-you can make suppressor being integral to barrel like MP-5 but it will bleed the pressure and reduce the kinetic energy of the projectile
-you can use subsonic ammo (complementary to supressor), but it will significantly lower the range

if you want a sniper rifle with longer range,
you need to adopt a new long-range specific caliber like .338 lapua magnum
basically develop a new platform, with new standard and new logistical support system

if you want lesser sound signature then attaching supressor is the most viable option
---------------------------------------------------
the existing 12.7mm anti-material rifle is able to penetrate certain angle of APC/IFV
but you want shoulder mounted sniper rifle to penetrate MBT ?? now that's just wet dream
too problematic from technical standpoint
just shoot 30mm bullet from A-10's gatling gun and it's done for

 

[afiq0110]

do you mean tweaking the existing rifle?
Simple answer: NO
a lot of compromise have to be made

you want longer range?
-lengthen the barrel, but it will make the rifle unwieldy
-increase the propellant pressure, and you make the barrel wear faster
-with current caliber, the bullet will drop significantly in longer range, and aerodynamic of the projectile won't compensate enough for wind drifting, so it is pretty much useless anyway

you want lesser sound signature?
-you can make suppressor being integral to barrel like MP-5 but it will bleed the pressure and reduce the kinetic energy of the projectile
-you can use subsonic ammo (complementary to supressor), but it will significantly lower the range

if you want a sniper rifle with longer range,
you need to adopt a new long-range specific caliber like .338 lapua magnum
basically develop a new platform, with new standard and new logistical support system

if you want lesser sound signature then attaching supressor is the most viable option
---------------------------------------------------
the existing 12.7mm anti-material rifle is able to penetrate certain angle of APC/IFV
but you want shoulder mounted sniper rifle to penetrate MBT ?? now that's just wet dream
too problematic from technical standpoint
just shoot 30mm bullet from A-10's gatling gun and it's done for

I like it when you explain the technical aspect of the riffle... It broaden my knowledge...

Thank you very much mr. mengkom

Please answer my previous question, related to the orlikon bullets

 

[mengkom]

Thank you mr meong... Ups, sorry... Mr mengkom... Very much appriciated

Please enlighten me some more in another matter...

When we bought Oerlikon Skyshield, did we get the technology to produce the bullet independently...

I heard we already researched our own 'pacar wutah'... Is it true ?...

Thanks....

sorry, i know nothing about this
maybe you should ask @madokafc
She seems to know a lot about procurement thingy in our MOD

 

[Su-35SM3 Flanker-N]

Sniper rifles are essential for our armed forces, but it's more important to have proper DMR rifle for TNI-AD and marine at squad level. Yes, a SS-2V4 with its longer barrel is unwieldy, but its presence in each squad can be quite an asset. One DMR-man for each regular squad.

It can be used to take out the commander and LMG gunner of the opposing squad. Accurate suppression fire against a group of common soldiers can also be quite devastating.

 

[mengkom]

Sniper rifles are essential for our armed forces, but it's more important to have proper DMR rifle for TNI-AD and marine at squad level. Yes, a SS-2V4 with its longer barrel is unwieldy, but its presence in each squad can be quite an asset. One DMR-man for each regular squad.

It can be used to take out the commander and LMG gunner of the opposing squad. Accurate suppression fire against a group of common soldiers can also be quite devastating.

no, the problem is not the length of the rifle
pindad has been offering DMR concept for several years now
but TNI doesn't seem to interested in SS-2 V4 simply because it is using 5.56mm caliber
even though it is advertised as "the rifle that win AASAM" over and over again.. in real world, 5.56 NATO is too anemic for DMR purpose.. not enough effective range

recently Pindad updated its DMR concept with SS-3 in 7.62 NATO caliber
we'll see whether or not TNI interested in adopting DMR concept

 

[Nike]

as long as i know some infantry units had deployed with DMR as part of their fire support units (some in Kostrad Raider, some in Kopassus), they seem to be made as pilot project wether it is feasible to field the new combat doctrine en masse. You know it is not as simple as to change some soldiers weapons from assault rifles into DMR capable weapons, but it is require a much complex and thorough doctrinal change in which involve training change, new logistics issue and new tactics and strategic thinking in which must be implemented on the NCO's and officer training courses.

But the steps had been taken, especially with the arise of the important on how to tackle FIBUA challenges, TNI AD top brass seems already acknowledge the importances to having DMR capable units within their infantry units squad after completing to inducts SAW into all of their infantry units.

 

[pr1v4t33r]

 

[mengkom]

i think SS-2 V4 still have place in today's warfare but not as DMR rifle
US marine adopting IAR M27 (HK 416 in 5.56 +heavier and longer barrel) in its organization since 2010
but of course it is not meant to fill as DMR role, but rather to be a lighter version of SAW (squad automatic weapon ~ minimi light machine gun) i.e. to give full automatic supressing fire against relatively short range target

i personally have seen SS-2 V4 in paskhas inventory
and you know what? their configuration is pretty similar to IAR M27
full-auto capable trigger group, heavy barrel to sustain high rate of fire, and a fix 4x magnification KRISS scope
so i think paskhas will be using it the same manner as IAR rather than DMR

 

[afiq0110]

i think SS-2 V4 still have place in today's warfare but not as DMR rifle
US marine adopting IAR M27 (HK 416 in 5.56 +heavier and longer barrel) in its organization since 2010
but of course it is not meant to fill as DMR role, but rather to be a lighter version of SAW (squad automatic weapon ~ minimi light machine gun) i.e. to give full automatic supressing fire against relatively short range target

i personally have seen SS-2 V4 in paskhas inventory
and you know what? their configuration is pretty similar to IAR M27
full-auto capable trigger group, heavy barrel to sustain high rate of fire, and a fix 4x magnification KRISS scope
so i think paskhas will be using it the same manner as IAR rather than DMR

Would you mind explaining the composition in our infantry units and the weapon they must carry in accordance to the composition...

Thank you...

 

[Nike]

Would you mind explaining the composition in our infantry units and the weapon they must carry in accordance to the composition...

Thank you...

its all depend on the mission profile they are being tasked. And which units got assigned for the said mission. You cant say they must bring it and that.